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Team QB ruling help needed


egostalker
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Ok everyone, not sure this has been brought up or not, if it has, I apologize for the double post. I am in a work league where we use the team qb approach (all qb's for the specific team so if one get's hurt the points still come in). The ruling we are trying to work out revolves around the Eagles and Dolphins. If a team has either of these teams that could use a back QB in the wildcat formation and they catch, run, score etc, should the team qb be getting all those points. Would love any and all feedback. example below to illustrate more

 

Donovan McNabb throws a 12 yard td pass to MVick. In my league since I have Eagles TeamQB should I only get points for McNabb or should I get credit for McNabb throwing the score, the yards he threw and for Vick catching the TD and those yards too?

 

 

help!

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Hence one of the problems with using a "team" concept. The player who takes the snap from center on the play is the QB, regardless of what number he wears or what his listed position is, and regardless of what he does with the ball afterwards. That's going to create a major headache is separating stats unless you have a good management site that will do it for you.

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Yet another reason why the "team" QB option sucks. Management of this scoring will be a real beotch for whomever (I assume you) has to do it. You could try and designate any player that plays at more than one position as a Flex player and therefore not eligible for QB points. Or, you could say only the guy chucking the rock on any given play gets the QB points. Either way, it will be tough on bookeeping and I guarantee someone in the league will whine about it and generally make life miserable for you.

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IMO, when you use the team approach, anyone listed at that position on the team's roster is that position, regardless of where they lineup for a particular play. So, in your example, I would say that yes, the Team QB does get the points for the pass, catch and yardage, both passing and receiving.

 

 

Let's look at another example. let's say for whatever reason you are using a Team RB (such as we are practicing with this year in one of the drafts for BDITH). Reggie Bush lines up in the slot quite often. Should any points he gets whenever he is not lined up in the backfield not count towards the Team RB, but now count towards the Team WR instead?

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only the guy chucking the rock on any given play gets the QB points.

 

+1

 

Isn't this the point of a team QB? You don't get points for McNabb or Vick, but you get points for whoever is the QB at the time, regardless of the specific player. So, in my mind, for example, if Maclin lines up as QB & throws a TD pass to Vick, the Eagles "team QB" still gets a TD Pass, but no TD reception (which should be distinguished from a halfback toss type play).

 

Again, could be a headache to keep track of, but it shouldn't happen too frequently. As commish though I would definitely clearly lay out the rules to the league before the season starts.

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We use this format in an ESPN league and contacted them to see how it would pan out. If a player is listed on the team page as a QB, anything done by a QB during the game will count. McNabb to Vick you get all the points for both. If LT throws a TD, LT is the only one to get points and nothing for the QB. Even if LT lines up as a QB, it's not his designation.

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IMO, when you use the team approach, anyone listed at that position on the team's roster is that position, regardless of where they lineup for a particular play. So, in your example, I would say that yes, the Team QB does get the points for the pass, catch and yardage, both passing and receiving.

 

 

Let's look at another example. let's say for whatever reason you are using a Team RB (such as we are practicing with this year in one of the drafts for BDITH). Reggie Bush lines up in the slot quite often. Should any points he gets whenever he is not lined up in the backfield not count towards the Team RB, but now count towards the Team WR instead?

 

I agree with this 100%. If he's listed as a QB on the team's roster and the website recognizes that player as such and scores his points accordingly, they should be yours under the "Team QB" concept. Simply a benefit of drfting that way. Kind of like a RB that catches a lot of passes as well as runs - simply a better draft choice. And even then, "better" is the wrong word. I'll say "different". Because in Miami, what you may gain in the wildcat, probably with Pat White, you'll lose most other places. The Eagles have a strong passing game as it is so I'd think you'd come out ahead there.

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IMO, when you use the team approach, anyone listed at that position on the team's roster is that position, regardless of where they lineup for a particular play. So, in your example, I would say that yes, the Team QB does get the points for the pass, catch and yardage, both passing and receiving.

Right on!

:wacko:

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Let's look at another example. let's say for whatever reason you are using a Team RB (such as we are practicing with this year in one of the drafts for BDITH). Reggie Bush lines up in the slot quite often. Should any points he gets whenever he is not lined up in the backfield not count towards the Team RB, but now count towards the Team WR instead?

Different deal here IMO. Whoever throws a pass gets points for the pass td, correct? If Bush lines up at QB and throws a td to Colston, they'll both get the td points, but the TEAM QB will not. At least in 32 Homarrrs.

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the only "team QB" concept we ever used was this: (using week 1 as an example for last year) : Lets say you started Brady. As long as he (brady) started the game and later gets hurt and does not re-enter the game, you would get Cassel's pts along with Brady FOR THAT GAME ONLY!

Then, for week 2, in order to get Cassel's pts , you would have to pick him up off the wavier wire.

 

The only way you get "team" pts is if the QB you started in your lineup starts the game and leaves the game due to injury and does not return .

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Different deal here IMO. Whoever throws a pass gets points for the pass td, correct? If Bush lines up at QB and throws a td to Colston, they'll both get the td points, but the TEAM QB will not. At least in 32 Homarrrs.

 

If Bush, listed as an RB, thus a part of TEAM RB, throws a TD, then the TEAM RB would get points for the pass TD.

 

If Vick, listed as a QB, takes a handoff on a reverse and scores, then TEAM QB would get the points.

 

If McNabb, listed as a QB, throws a TD to Vick, also listed as a QB, then the TEAM QB would get points for both the pass and reception.

 

 

Getting back to the TEAm RB as an example, let's say in SD, you have Rivers under center, LT in the backfield and Sproles in the slot all in on the same down. Rivers takes the snap, hands to LT who runs towards the sideline, pulls up and throws a pass to Sproles who scores (not exactly a totally unlikely scenario). IMO, the TEAM RB, as both LT and Sproles are listed on the roster as RBs, would get points for the passing TD, receiving TD, passing yards, receiving yards, reception, completion, etc.

 

The concept of the TEAM position is that you are combining all players from the same team that are listed at that position on the roster into a singular entity.

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lol @ team QB

We use TEAM KICKERS too :wacko:Link

I bet that is pretty funny too...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.....then you look and realize we start 1Team QB, 1 RB, 3 WR, 1TE, 1 Team K, 11 total IDPS(DL/LB/CB/S) for a total of 18 starters per team...which just happens to be equal to 576 players per week...for those that are to lazy to look it is a 32 team league and we roster around 1300 total players....the point is that everything has its place and if someone is using a Team QB and it works for them then who are we to laugh at them....if your skill level is such that you would find using a Team QB to easy then you just pass on those leagues but no reason to ridicule a guy who has it in his league. It works for him and that really is all that matters....all he is asking for is advice on how to handle the wildcat.

Edited by keggerz
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Different deal here IMO. Whoever throws a pass gets points for the pass td, correct? If Bush lines up at QB and throws a td to Colston, they'll both get the td points, but the TEAM QB will not. At least in 32 Homarrrs.

http://football99.myfantasyleague.com/2005...6&YEAR=2005

Brees 164 passing yards and 1 TD

http://football99.myfantasyleague.com/2005...6&YEAR=2005

 

just to support HBTC that in 32 Homers the RB gets the passing points and the QB doesnt...but I think if a player is listed as a QB they should get the points no matter if there were two of them in the game or not

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you've obviously never played in a 32 team league.

people that arent playing in a 16+ team leagues or larger with full IDPs shouldnt ever laugh at anyone....and having multiple copies of players doesnt count :wacko:

Edited by keggerz
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http://football99.myfantasyleague.com/2005...6&YEAR=2005

Brees 164 passing yards and 1 TD

http://football99.myfantasyleague.com/2005...6&YEAR=2005

 

just to support HBTC that in 32 Homers the RB gets the passing points and the QB doesnt...but I think if a player is listed as a QB they should get the points no matter if there were two of them in the game or not

 

I'm not arguing that the TEAM QB should get points in the situation he described. I would say that the TEAM RB, if one is being used, or Bush if individual RBs are used, would get the points.

 

I am arguing that any one listed as a QB, regardless of what function they are actually performing on the field for any given play, should have any points earned applied to the TEAM QB, just as anyone listed as an RB should get points for the TEAM RB, etc.

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I'm not arguing that the TEAM QB should get points in the situation he described. I would say that the TEAM RB, if one is being used, or Bush if individual RBs are used, would get the points.

 

I am arguing that any one listed as a QB, regardless of what function they are actually performing on the field for any given play, should have any points earned applied to the TEAM QB, just as anyone listed as an RB should get points for the TEAM RB, etc.

i thought i agreed with you but just used the example to show that what HBTC was saying was correct in his scenario(because honestly I wasnt sure if the QB got points for it or not)

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i thought i agreed with you but just used the example to show that what HBTC was saying was correct in his scenario(because honestly I wasnt sure if the QB got points for it or not)

 

Duly noted. Sorry.

 

One more "argument: I thought of was this. If drafting individuals, what position would Michael Vick be classified as? QB.. at least in just about every league I am aware of. And what position would he be eligible to fill in a starting lineup? QB... not WR, not RB, etc. Thus, what team position would his stats logically contribute to.... TEAM QB.

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the only "team QB" concept we ever used was this: (using week 1 as an example for last year) : Lets say you started Brady. As long as he (brady) started the game and later gets hurt and does not re-enter the game, you would get Cassel's pts along with Brady FOR THAT GAME ONLY!

Then, for week 2, in order to get Cassel's pts , you would have to pick him up off the wavier wire.

 

The only way you get "team" pts is if the QB you started in your lineup starts the game and leaves the game due to injury and does not return .

 

And what do you do if said backup is already on another team's roster? Does the owner of the starter still get the points for the NFL backup, even though that player is already on another team's roster? And let;s take that a step further utilizing the Philly example. What if both mcNabb and Vick are on rosters of different fantasy teams, and both are started by their respective fantasy teams. If one goes down to injury and does not return, does the owner of the injured QB get the points for the other QB even though he was not just on another fantasy roster, but actually in another team's starting lineup?

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Oye! What a mess. Prepare for semantic debate.

 

I think we need to consider what designates a quarterback. Most definitions I could find say that he is the one who lines up behind center and takes the snap. Of course, this isn't NFL rule. I can't find NFL position definitions from the league, so the best we can do is take a look at some rules from the NFL rulebook. The following support the argument that there is one quarterback per play:

 

QB as ineligible receiver - A T-formation quarterback is not eligible to receive a forward pass during a play from scrimmage.

 

In the Grasp - Officials are to blow the play dead as soon as the quarterback is clearly in the grasp and control of any tackler, and his safety is in jeopardy.

 

Roughing the passer (not late hit) - No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction.

 

Well the first is pretty clear. There is one QB in a T-formation; he is the player who lines up behind center and receives the snap. For "in the grasp", I think it's also clearly interpreted as the player who receives the snap. If McNabb and Vick are on field, McNabb tosses to Vick on a sweep, and Vick ends up "in the grasp", I think you'd see a very strong reaction from fans if the ref blew the play dead. And he shouldn't. As for the third, when LT passes on sweeps, this roughing call will not be made, as he is not the quarterback. If there is a sweep to LT, and an unabated defender tackles him below the knee, there is no roughing call just because the play was a called pass. This rule doesn't change depending on what the player's listed position is on the depth chart.

 

So far, it's pretty clear: there is one QB on the field at a time. The QB has special rules in place, and they can only apply to one player at a time. If we abide by this, I think it's clear that only one QB can score points on any given play. One more to consider:

 

Third Quarterback Rule - If a third quarterback is inserted before the fourth quarter, a team's first two quarterbacks cannot be used in the game at any position.

 

Now I don't know if this has ever been an issue before. The question is, if McNabb and Vick are listed as QBs, and Vick comes in for one play, lined up as a RB, does he count as a second QB? If McNabb gets injured and Kolb is brought in at QB, can Vick no longer play? My money is that he will be not be judged as having been the second QB and will continue to be allowed to line up at other positions. Again, I don't know the exact details of the rule, but I think if McNabb is always on the field and always lines up under center, he is always designated as the QB.

 

My feeling is that only one QB can score points for you on any given play. The QB is defined not by position on the depth chart but by where they line up. This may be prohibitively difficult to score, but I think it's the letter of the law here.

 

So what's the solution? You draft team's QBs, but they don't score as team QBs. When you draft a team's QBs, you actually are given every player on their roster listed at QB. You can start one per week. When one is injured, you can start whoever the starter is next week, but not this week. Of course I may be missing the point of team QBs, but it seems to me that it's to cover injuries over the course of the season rather than in the one particular game they get injured in. This is the obvious way to address the inconsistencies introduced by team scoring while incorporating the team QB as one collective "player" on your roster.

 

If you made it through this post: mazel tov.

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