westvirginia Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 WV. I guess that is one way to look at it. How would you like to see schools run? How would you fix this problem? Math and English seem important. History and Science seem important. I can see where one might take issue with who the history is written by - but how would you fix this problem? By bringing competition into the marketplace. Privatize schools and give persons vouchers. Are there certain items you buy loyally? I'll bet that's because you feel they give you the best value for your dollar, right? Education is no different, and there would be plenty of different flavors out there. We had higher literacy rates in this country BEFORE compulsory education. Look it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Maybe take it down the the local level? Let the local school districts decide what is being taught to their kids. Get rid of all federal funding of education and allow the states and local communities to fund their schools instead of funding the neighboring states after uncle same has taken his cut off the top to pay for his bureaucracy. Just a thought. So what happens to poor neighborhoods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I would have no problem if his discussion with the student revolved around the history of the presidency. I have a major problem if he is going to pimp policy to the students, as that is nothing more than indoctrination which is the problem so many of us have with public education to begin with. I can just see it now, Daddy how come people don't want some people to have health care? I recall seeing the State of the Union address in government class in high school, not as an elementary school student. I also recall that after the state of the union address, we watched the opposing party give rebuttal. What are the chances that there will be a conservative on after BHO to give a rebuttal? I'm already pissed at the school system anyway for making 3rd grader think she is going to die of the swine flu if she gets it. Here's your benchmark. Bush Sr. from 1991. I have a feeling if this was Obama's speech, you would find something to complain about. "He's just pimping his education plan!" "He's pimping his 'Say No to Drugs' campaign". Actually I thought it was kind of funny that he was using Schwarzenegger as his anti-drug role model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 You're a day late on your outrage. I went through all of this yesterday with my Have to agree here! conservative coworkers. Civics is EVIL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Here's your benchmark. Bush Sr. from 1991. I have a feeling if this was Obama's speech, you would find something to complain about. "He's just pimping his education plan!" "He's pimping his 'Say No to Drugs' campaign". Actually I thought it was kind of funny that he was using Schwarzenegger as his anti-drug role model. That is hilarious. Well done Atomic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 The problem is a third grader is like a liberal, they rarely understand logic, just feelings. I'd rather not have bang my head against that wall until she had developed more logic and can actually put thought ahead of emotions. It's not logical to be open minded? OK then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 OK, so kids can be forced to say the pledge then? Forced to take some psychotropic med because the teacher doesn't want to deal with them? Where's the line? I honestly don't care who the president is. Just another reason my kids will not go to public schools until they can present a clear, compelling and logical reason for wanting to do so. Where is this all coming from? Who is forcing kids ot take meds? Who is forcing the kids to pledge? I have to agree with Duchess on this one. I know that teacher encourage students to do the pledge and for may of the younger ones that type of encouragement may seem like a dictate coming from an authority figure, but I've never heard of a parent telling the school that they don't want their kid to say the pledge and them not having their wishes honored. I've never heard of schools forcing kids to take meds. My wife is a special ed teacher and she probably deals with more medicated kids than you would believe. By law (and for personal liability issues) she is not allowed to make any recommendations regarding medication, but in most cases she tends to think the kids are over-medicated, and would like to see many of them go off the medication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Where is this all coming from? Who is forcing kids ot take meds? Who is forcing the kids to pledge? Nobody, I'm asking questions. If, because your kid is in a gov't school you can force them to watch this, where does it end? Where's the line? I get how this could be educational, but it just smacks of political indoctrination to me, and I chafe heartily under constraints like that. I work hard to teach my kids to think for themselves. I tell them once they're adults, there should never be blind obedience to ANYTHING, and if they're willing to take the consequences, they're free to disobey me now. I teach them to NEVER feel compelled to do anything, but to ALWAYS weigh the options and decide if it's worth it. To live any other way is to not truly live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 So what happens to poor neighborhoods? Who cares? (I think that's the point.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 "Remember kids...you need stuff in life, so always vote Democrat!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 So what happens to poor neighborhoods? Let the states take care of it. It would be one less layer of bureaucracy, and all the cost associated with that level of bureaucracy. Think of how much more money could actually be spent on education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 We have extreme apathy in this country from the general public when it comes to politics. How do you think we keep re-electing all these idiots in Washington that you all hate? I for one thing it's great to get kids excited to learn about and engage in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 Here's your benchmark. Bush Sr. from 1991. I have a feeling if this was Obama's speech, you would find something to complain about. "He's just pimping his education plan!" "He's pimping his 'Say No to Drugs' campaign". Actually I thought it was kind of funny that he was using Schwarzenegger as his anti-drug role model. First, this is an address to a single high school. Second it is a high school not an every public elementary school in the country. I see a big difference between the maturity and level of critical thought that high school students have versus elementary school students. I don't have a problem with public schools teaching sex ed at the high school level, but I'd be irate if they were teaching my 3rd grader sex ed. Finally, not having taken the time to read the address I would have to say I would rather the President do something more productive than addressing one high school, and would probably have a problem with what Bush did even though as pointed out above it is entirely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 We have extreme apathy in this country from the general public when it comes to politics. How do you think we keep re-electing all these idiots in Washington that you all hate? I for one thing it's great to get kids excited to learn about and engage in the process. I actually agree with you I just don't agree with a couple of things: 1. The age of the audience. It would go much further to promote as sense of ownership (which is what you are talking about above) if the audience was in high school closer to voting age, and more likely to have a greater capacity for critical thought instead of a bunch of elementary students that will mindlessly swallow whatever is fed them. 2. If there was a rebuttal from the other side. Like I previously stated I remember watching a state of the union address in government class, but I also distinctly remember watching the opposing party's rebuttal. Based on everything I'm seeing her there will be no rebuttal. 3. If it was voluntary. I'm much rather my dyslexic 3rd grader spend that time improving her reading than being filled with one side's propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 We had higher literacy rates in this country BEFORE compulsory education. Look it up... I call bullsh|t until you look it up and link it. until then, there is this: http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 First, this is an address to a single high school. It was a media event that was broadcast nationally. Look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 absolutely nothing wrong with it, as long as he doesn't turn it into a stump speech for health care or cap'n trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perchoutofwater Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 It was a media event that was broadcast nationally. Look it up. I don't need to because my second and much longer point that I made and you failed to quote said I would be against it even though it was much more appropriate due the age of the students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 We have extreme apathy in this country from the general public when it comes to politics. How do you think we keep re-electing all these idiots in Washington that you all hate? I for one thing it's great to get kids excited to learn about and engage in the process. But it's the manner of their engagement that causes my angst. Government should always be questioned, and nobody does that. Yet we all know that 99.9% of these polecats are liars and thieves, only involved for their own advancement in power and graft. We listen to their platitudes and it excites us viscerally, but we never noodle out the logical conclusions and consequences of this or that program. THAT is why I'm so absolutely frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 absolutely nothing wrong with it, as long as he doesn't turn it into a stump speech for health care or cap'n trade. I pretty much agree. I doubt Obama would be stupid enough to try to enlist children to campaign for his pet projects in order try to boost poll numbers. It would of course backfire horribly if he did. I'm sure it will be a very innocuous education is good and drugs are bad kind of speech. More or less a first day of school cheerleading pep talk (that's my guess anyway). I can't imagine it would be much else. And if it is, then I'll simply talk to our kids and explain why he might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Have to agree here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I call bullsh|t until you look it up and link it. until then, there is this: http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp Whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I call bullsh|t until you look it up and link it. until then, there is this: http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp This is what I was going by. The army's studies of new recruits. But I'm sure gov't education studies can be trusted. After all, those are the same folks that say they need ever increasing funds when private schools do better with half the dollars per student. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 But it's the manner of their engagement that causes my angst. Government should always be questioned, and nobody does that. Yet we all know that 99.9% of these polecats are liars and thieves, only involved for their own advancement in power and graft. We listen to their platitudes and it excites us viscerally, but we never noodle out the logical conclusions and consequences of this or that program. THAT is why I'm so absolutely frustrated. You are free to leave the country at your earliest convenience . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 You are free to leave the country at your earliest convenience . . . Oh hell no. When we last tried to leave the country at our earliest convenience, he decided to stay. He's stuck with you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts