Samson Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Here's my take on Vick. I am not getting into issues of justice, morality, etc. When I come here, I want fantasy football advice, not anybody's moral judgments. Philly's offensive line is a mess right now, and despite all the skill players they have, there's a lot of value to having a mobile, freestyling QB on your roster . . . especially given McNabb's injury history. Anything the guy does in the single wing/wildcat formation is cream, but I see his value as: a. backup for McNabb (who will not play 16 games this year) b. cheap keeper option at QB (he's got a great chance at a starting job elsewhere . .. or Philly if McNabb gets hurt/exposed) He's a flier-type player. If you have a roster spot to piss away, he might be worth it . . . but I would not lose anyone meaningful from your roster for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 It was not an unregistered weapon It sure was in NY - that's all that matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 i just breezed thru this thread and i think it was balzac that was using semantics so that is why I only stated what I did. apparently I don't go by the same definition of semantics as others around here do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 This is why he was sentenced to 2 years in prison. What you need to understand is that in certain cultural areas, people simply don't care that much about dogs - in Vick's idiot mind, I don't think he fully appreciated the gravity of what he was doing because they were "just dogs". I think that's a horribly wrong mentality but the fact remains that different people have different sets of values. There are countries in this world where they wouldn't have batted an eye at what he did. the more I hear that the more it just pisses me off...that is a cop out answer....there are a ton of people that live in projects and many of those kids see drug dealing from an early early age...should they be afforded the same claim when they get busted for selling drugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz1 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 This is why he was sentenced to 2 years in prison. What you need to understand is that in certain cultural areas, people simply don't care that much about dogs - in Vick's idiot mind, I don't think he fully appreciated the gravity of what he was doing because they were "just dogs". I think that's a horribly wrong mentality but the fact remains that different people have different sets of values. There are countries in this world where they wouldn't have batted an eye at what he did. I have to disagree with you here, it's not the animal per se it is what he did to it without even so much as a concious though about the suffering. I hunt and I wing a bird, i don't follow it around and watch it suffer flapping away, then laugh and pick it up break the other wing for more enjoyement and then find some water and break it's legs so it can't reach air and watch it stuggle to breath and then shock it with my car battery for $hits and giggles. I ring it's neck and be done with it. And I don't even like that all that much. If feel something for the thing. I don't even rip a hook out of a fishes throught along with it's lungs and throw it back in the water. I think that is what a normal human being feels about anything suffering except those that don't give a crap about anything or anyone. That is what concerns me. Maybe I am in the minority here but I just don't think it is normal to get off on seeing an animal suffer and then inflict more pain on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 the more I hear that the more it just pisses me off...that is a cop out answer....there are a ton of people that live in projects and many of those kids see drug dealing from an early early age...should they be afforded the same claim when they get busted for selling drugs? Cop out in what way? I'm not excusing his behavior in any manner. It's just an explanation as to why he might not have seen it as that big of a deal. I don't think Vick is this horrible, homicidal maniac walking the streets like some are painting him out to be. He's stupid. He's spoiled. He doesn't empathize with animals. You know what he is? A child - he's an idiot child who got caught kicking the neighbor's cat and got in trouble for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Cop out in what way? I'm not excusing his behavior in any manner. It's just an explanation as to why he might not have seen it as that big of a deal. I don't think Vick is this horrible, homicidal maniac walking the streets like some are painting him out to be. He's stupid. He's spoiled. He doesn't empathize with animals. You know what he is? A child - he's an idiot child who got caught kicking the neighbor's cat and got in trouble for it. he is an adult and if you or anyone actually think he thought i was ok and legal to do then you are just kidding yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 te name='Cowboyz1' date='9/3/09 11:50pm' post='2921135'] I have to disagree with you here, it's not the animal per se it is what he did to it without even so much as a concious though about the suffering. I hunt and I wing a bird, i don't follow it around and watch it suffer flapping away, then laugh and pick it up break the other wing for more enjoyement and then find some water and break it's legs so it can't reach air and watch it stuggle to breath and then shock it with my car battery for $hits and giggles. I ring it's neck and be done with it. And I don't even like that all that much. If feel something for the thing. I don't even rip a hook out of a fishes throught along with it's lungs and throw it back in the water. I think that is what a normal human being feels about anything suffering except those that don't give a crap about anything or anyone. That is what concerns me. Maybe I am in the minority here but I just don't think it is normal to get off on seeing an animal suffer and then inflict more pain on it. You're not in the minority - that's why we have animal cruelty laws and everyone agrees that vick did some seriously f'd up stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 he is an adult and if you or anyone actually think he thought i was ok and legal to do then you are just kidding yourself. It was a metaphor - I understand that he's an adult. I equate it to smoking Josh Gordon - people know it's wrong and illegal but they don't care and smoke it anyway because they don't think it's wrong. He looked at it the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 It was a metaphor - I understand that he's an adult. I equate it to smoking Josh Gordon - people know it's wrong and illegal but they don't care and smoke it anyway because they don't think it's wrong. He looked at it the same way. my last post on this so let me get this straight: He didn't think it was wrong yet when initially questioned he lied. Seems like his lies show that he did know it was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I have to disagree with you here, it's not the animal per se it is what he did to it without even so much as a concious though about the suffering. I hunt and I wing a bird, i don't follow it around and watch it suffer flapping away, then laugh and pick it up break the other wing for more enjoyement and then find some water and break it's legs so it can't reach air and watch it stuggle to breath and then shock it with my car battery for $hits and giggles. I ring it's neck and be done with it. And I don't even like that all that much. If feel something for the thing. I don't even rip a hook out of a fishes throught along with it's lungs and throw it back in the water. I think that is what a normal human being feels about anything suffering except those that don't give a crap about anything or anyone. That is what concerns me. Maybe I am in the minority here but I just don't think it is normal to get off on seeing an animal suffer and then inflict more pain on it. exactly what evidence is there that he did all this torture you describe in such flowery language? there is plenty of evidence he fought dogs. that he was involved in raising them, training them, and killing the ones that didn't perform, all of which is terrible and against the law. but all of this crap about torturing them because he somehow got off on watching them die a slow death? I keep hearing about that from the more self-righteous vick critics, but I've never seen any real evidence of it. Cop out in what way? I'm not excusing his behavior in any manner. It's just an explanation as to why he might not have seen it as that big of a deal. I don't think Vick is this horrible, homicidal maniac walking the streets like some are painting him out to be. He's stupid. He's spoiled. He doesn't empathize with animals. You know what he is? A child - he's an idiot child who got caught kicking the neighbor's cat and got in trouble for it. sums it up pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 my last post on thisso let me get this straight: He didn't think it was wrong yet when initially questioned he lied. Seems like his lies show that he did know it was wrong. did you even read my prior post? he knew it was wrong and illegal - he just didn't care because HE (as opposed to the law) didn't think it was wrong. He knew he could get in trouble for it, so he lied . . . easy math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz1 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) exactly what evidence is there that he did all this torture you describe in such flowery language? there is plenty of evidence he fought dogs. that he was involved in raising them, training them, and killing the ones that didn't perform, all of which is terrible and against the law. but all of this crap about torturing them because he somehow got off on watching them die a slow death? I keep hearing about that from the more self-righteous vick critics, but I've never seen any real evidence of it. sums it up pretty well. In or about the summer of 2002, TAYLOR executed at least two dogs that did not perform well in "testing" sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by shooting one dog and electrocuting the other . 6 53 . In or about March of 2003, PEACE, after consulting with VICK about the losing female pit bull's condition, executed the losing dog by wetting the dog down with water and el :ctrocuting the animal . 83 . In or about April 2007, PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK executed approximately 8 dogs that did not perform well in "testing" sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging, drowning, and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground . Here you go, there is more but I don't have time to find it. There are also statements that were not included in the court documents detailing what he did to dogs but for what ever reason they did not use them as evidence. Edited September 4, 2009 by Cowboyz1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 exactly what evidence is there that he did all this torture you describe in such flowery language? there is plenty of evidence he fought dogs. that he was involved in raising them, training them, and killing the ones that didn't perform, all of which is terrible and against the law. but all of this crap about torturing them because he somehow got off on watching them die a slow death? I keep hearing about that from the more self-righteous vick critics, but I've never seen any real evidence of it. sums it up pretty well. Because of sworn testimony by his co defendants which he didn't fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 exactly what evidence is there that he did all this torture you describe in such flowery language? there is plenty of evidence he fought dogs. that he was involved in raising them, training them, and killing the ones that didn't perform, all of which is terrible and against the law. but all of this crap about torturing them because he somehow got off on watching them die a slow death? I keep hearing about that from the more self-righteous vick critics, but I've never seen any real evidence of it. 83 . In or about April 2007, PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK executed approximately 8 dogs that did not perform well in "testing" sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging, drowning, and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Bottom line for me is this, there is something seriously wrong with Vick's head in order for him to do the things he did to those dogs. You have to be a pretty sick individual to be able to do the things he did and be that cruel to anything living and breathing on this earth. I treat fish better as I don't like them chocking on hooks and I wack em on the head quick so they don't suffer. I mean inflicting pain and suffering on an animal while laughing and watching it stuggle to survive and slowly die is just plain sick. Bullet to the head ok. Whack over the head OK. What he did, Sick. So do I think he spent enough time in Jail. NO Right after jail he should have been remanded to a psych ward for a year to find out what is wrong with a the guy and could he be that careless and cruel to any human being? Not go to jail, get even HARDER there and then come out sign a million dollar contract to play football for an NFL franchise and travel from city to city in America free to ingage in anything he wants to again without councelling and intense at that. You all need to read the court docs which discribe what Vick actually did to dogs and image what went unfound or undiscovered or unproveable. Then it makes you wonder what kind of guy is walking around our streets and under center on Sundays in front of our faces. Very well said. I am shocked by all the people who keep saying "he did his time" "he deserves a second chance" "he is reformed" - just my opinion but this is the dumbing down of America - blame other people - blame the fact he grew up in a bad area that did not respect dogs - that is crap - if you do something this heinous then you get punished and should still be allowed to make a living - a living flushing toilets at Ohare airport making minimum wage. If you screw up you get screwed - plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 It was not an unregistered weapon It was not registered in the state of New York. The fact that it was registered in another state is irrelevant to the laws of New York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) Very well said. I am shocked by all the people who keep saying "he did his time" "he deserves a second chance" "he is reformed" - just my opinion but this is the dumbing down of America - blame other people - blame the fact he grew up in a bad area that did not respect dogs - that is crap - if you do something this heinous then you get punished and should still be allowed to make a living - a living flushing toilets at Ohare airport making minimum wage. If you screw up you get screwed - plain and simple. Not intending to be offensive, but this is just straight ignorant. Nobody here "blamed" anything for Vick's behavior, other than his own idiocy. People commit crimes; they pay their debt to society - for you to say that they should forever be condemned to a life of flushing toilets is just foolish. People make mistakes and do heinous things, so they should lose their entire livelihood for the rest of their lives? Come on - for murder, yes - you lose your life for that because you go away forever. For lesser offenses, no - you get a second chance with a clean slate once you've done your time. I have no idea where people got this idea that people shouldn't be able to make a living when they get out of jail, but it's laughable. People look at the fact that Vick makes a lot of money and assume that that means all is right in his world. NEWSFLASH - the guy is 9 MILLION dollars in debt. Even if he plays well and gets a nice fat contract for the next couple years, he will NEVER clear $9mm in net salary (how many years does he have left - 3? 4? He relies on his legs and they will run out sooner than later). He's got no more endorsements and will never have them again. MICHAEL VICK IS HOSED FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE FINANCIALLY, so let's not act like he's back on top of the world. Edited September 4, 2009 by Balzac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishNorbi Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 So, if they are found guilty, the criminal system worked and they served an appropriate amount of time? That's the conundrum. Most people are excessively charged but can't afford defense attorneys the likes of an OJ or Vick. Most likely, a regular Joe convicted of the same crime would probably still be behind bars with many years to follow. And to anyone else saying he should have gotten more... I did some research on this matter.. He got one of the TOUGHEST punishments I have seen, mainly because it was such a public ordeal. Look at pet-abuse.com http://www.pet-abuse.com/profiles/13098/ First Offense for dog fighting - 1 day, 2nd Offense, 23days, Finally 3rd offense was 5 years. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/1313/CA/US/ 17 pitbulls found fighting. No Jail. 20 days of comm. service. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/1312/CA/US/ 1 year jail. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/918/NY/US/ 6 months house arrest. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/15191/NC/US/ 127 pitbull fighting dogs, 8 to 10 months sentencing. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/12907/AR/US/ 1 month, and get this - hes not allowed to own pitbulls for 6 years... I can keep going but I will stop. He did way more than anyone I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 And to anyone else saying he should have gotten more... I did some research on this matter.. He got one of the TOUGHEST punishments I have seen, mainly because it was such a public ordeal. Look at pet-abuse.com http://www.pet-abuse.com/profiles/13098/ First Offense for dog fighting - 1 day, 2nd Offense, 23days, Finally 3rd offense was 5 years. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/1313/CA/US/ 17 pitbulls found fighting. No Jail. 20 days of comm. service. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/1312/CA/US/ 1 year jail. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/918/NY/US/ 6 months house arrest. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/15191/NC/US/ 127 pitbull fighting dogs, 8 to 10 months sentencing. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/12907/AR/US/ 1 month, and get this - hes not allowed to own pitbulls for 6 years... I can keep going but I will stop. He did way more than anyone I can find. thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I think you guys misunderstood my question...I asked for EVIDENCE vick was some serial torturer, not unproven allegations in a discarded indictment that, even if you accept every word without hearing the other side, don't even suggest what you claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 And to anyone else saying he should have gotten more... I did some research on this matter.. He got one of the TOUGHEST punishments I have seen, mainly because it was such a public ordeal. Look at pet-abuse.com http://www.pet-abuse.com/profiles/13098/ First Offense for dog fighting - 1 day, 2nd Offense, 23days, Finally 3rd offense was 5 years. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/1313/CA/US/ 17 pitbulls found fighting. No Jail. 20 days of comm. service. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/1312/CA/US/ 1 year jail. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/918/NY/US/ 6 months house arrest. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/15191/NC/US/ 127 pitbull fighting dogs, 8 to 10 months sentencing. http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/12907/AR/US/ 1 month, and get this - hes not allowed to own pitbulls for 6 years... I can keep going but I will stop. He did way more than anyone I can find. How many of the above people are making over a million dollars less than 3 months out of prison? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I think you guys misunderstood my question...I asked for EVIDENCE vick was some serial torturer, not unproven allegations in a discarded indictment that, even if you accept every word without hearing the other side, don't even suggest what you claim. Didn't you know? The "other side" had been bought off anyway, so they weren't even trying hard to convict him. The only torture I see is the continuation of the idiocy that is this thread (and I take full responsibility for starting this foolishness) - please, let's just kill it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbpfan1231 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Didn't you know? The "other side" had been bought off anyway, so they weren't even trying hard to convict him. The only torture I see is the continuation of the idiocy that is this thread (and I take full responsibility for starting this foolishness) - please, let's just kill it. Spoken like a Vick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balzac Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 How many of the above people are making over a million dollars less than 3 months out of prison? haha - what does this have to do with anything? were they supposed to give him more jail time because he had higher earning power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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