rocknrobn26 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 The union brotherhood/sisterhood. If you don't understand now.....you'll never understand. God bless all my union brothers and sisters. Are unions perfect? NO! But I'll take their imperfection vs relying on big business, the educational sector treating me fairly. How many company owners died fighting for their cause? Yeah...union brothers died in their cause! (read your history) How many lives have been saved by unions protecting not only their own but all that work in the related industries (non-union) vs the company looking out for them? More than you'll ever count. Unions have lost their purpose? Yeah...sure...and so has equality rights. Age, Sex, Race and the rest! I said I wouldn't post in the "Other" thread, but I have to comment on the mindless posts in the other thread! Yeah Chi is losing convention business. And the UNIONS are the only blame??? That's laughable. How about Chi's outrageous sales and hotel taxes? Not to mention parking fees that are equally outrageous? Unions may be a part of it, but get real...too many factors in Chi to zero in on the Unions as the only factor regardless of what the convention reps say. If I violated something by creating this post, then ban me, chastise me, or do whatever is appropriate. But the green puke that is spewed by a few pompous asses who have no idea how unions are needed needs to be addressed. Unions are here and I pray they always will be. They created America and stand FOR AMERICA! it's called FREEDOM! If you live in a state that involves hiring union workers and only union workers...live with it. Choose to move where that isn't the case. If you live in a right to work state and can pay lower wages...good for you. Outside of Chi proper, union membership is not as big a deal. The burbs are no where near that. But I digress... I always laugh at how the anti-union people are afraid/hate 14% of the working population. Feeling naked? 14%??? !!! Nuff said. BTW...Teachers and others who do NOT have to join a union have restricted rights, long story, and are called "Fair Share" Members. I truly appreciate the quotes from Yo Mama, Atomic, Yuke, Ursa, Sac, Skippy, et al. (sorry if I forgot someone) Thinking people w/ no agenda. Gotta give their opinions some credibility regardless of where you stand. Peace to all, but THINK FIRST, then talk/comment/discuss! rr26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I truly appreciate the quotes from Yo Mama, Atomic, Yuke, Ursa, Sac, Skippy, et al. (sorry if I forgot someone) Thinking people w/ no agenda. Gotta give their opinions some credibility regardless of where you stand. come on. the people who agree with you are "thinking people with no agenda" and those who disagree are "pompous asses who have no idea"? that is just plain weak, tom. my stepdad was a diehard, blue collar union man his whole life. my mom, who has busted her ass her whole life to make ends meet working manufacturing jobs is just as vehemently anti-union. I made my own observations and came to my own conclusions, and, to over-generalize a bit for the sake of making my point without pulling any punches, I see unions in this day and age as nothing more than political hatchet men working against economic progress and efficiency and working FOR, not the typical working man, but on behalf overpaid lifers in mostly broken industries. in my opinion and experience, employment relationships where employer and employee are working toward the same goal and focus on the mutually beneficial are a lot more productive for all involved than the typical union situation, which is always portrayed as "us versus them". but, you know, getting back to my own family....we all had our differences of opinion without losing any love or respect for the other and where they were coming from. certainly never felt the need to refer to each other as "pompous asses" spewing "green puke". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosberg34 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 come on. the people who agree with you are "thinking people with no agenda" and those who disagree are "pompous asses who have no idea"? that is just plain weak, tom. my stepdad was a diehard, blue collar union man his whole life. my mom, who has busted her ass her whole life to make ends meet working manufacturing jobs is just as vehemently anti-union. I made my own observations and came to my own conclusions, and, to over-generalize a bit for the sake of making my point without pulling any punches, I see unions in this day and age as nothing more than political hatchet men working against economic progress and efficiency and working FOR, not the typical working man, but on behalf overpaid lifers in mostly broken industries. in my opinion and experience, employment relationships where employer and employee are working toward the same goal and focus on the mutually beneficial are a lot more productive for all involved than the typical union situation, which is always portrayed as "us versus them". but, you know, getting back to my own family....we all had our differences of opinion without losing any love or respect for the other and where they were coming from. certainly never felt the need to refer to each other as "pompous asses" spewing "green puke". I made my opinion of unions when union goons that were on strike threatened the management at the company my dad was at. My dad, being in management, had to take the name off of our mailbox and house because they were following people home to find out where they lived. Yeah, you go union brothers! Keep the good fight up by eliminating business, productivity and eventually your own job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 in my opinion and experience, employment relationships where employer and employee are working toward the same goal and focus on the mutually beneficial are a lot more productive for all involved If all employment situations were like you describe, I'd wholeheartedly agree. Mine is, luckily for me. But reality is different for millions of others where the only imperative is to screw employees over as hard and as fast as possible. Yo Mama has it dead right in the other thread - if unions went away, they'd have to be brought back pretty damn quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Yo Mama has it dead right in the other thread - if unions went away, they'd have to be brought back pretty damn quick. yeah, because the jobs employees in all the companies and industries where unions are currently virtually non-existent are in such bad shape. oh wait, what? you mean it's the exact opposite? oooh, hmm, well then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 yeah, because the jobs employees in all the companies and industries where unions are currently virtually non-existent are in such bad shape. oh wait, what? you mean it's the exact opposite? oooh, hmm, well then.... Is it? Walmart ring a bell? Why does Walmart not want a union? And why, since being threatened with having unions, has Walmart changed so many of it's practices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Is it? Walmart ring a bell? Why does Walmart not want a union? And why, since being threatened with having unions, has Walmart changed so many of it's practices? You honestly have no clue. I'm not picking on you, im just sayin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Many of the union people in my company are slow, unmotivated and unable to think outside the box. In most cases they have been doing the same job for 10 or 20 years and show zero enthusiasm for their work, which has a draining effect on the people around them. In my sector of the business we use union technicians to perform test & turn-ups for new services -- frame relay and ATM leased-line access and PVCs. Because they are barely competent, they can only handle the most routine calls -- anything out of the ordinary gets referred to "Tier 2" -- a more experienced (management) technician takes over and does advanced troubleshooting. Due to contracts we are forced to use these people and as a manager I am not allowed to even make simple tweaks on a customer's service because the union might file a "grievance". But as we roll out new products, there are no such restrictions and managers are taking over the technicians' role, slowly phasing out the less productive union people. I can't argue that unions were not instrumental in forcing companies to adopt safe working conditions and 40-hour weeks, but I see firsthand every day how they can suck the life out of a company when they get too powerful. I would also argue that they are not doing these techs any favors, and if you met them you would understand. A person takes on kind of a corpse-ish appearance when they lose all enthusiasm for their work. You stop learning and growing, a part of you dies. The union holds them hostage in this way, making job security such an important commodity and discouraging promotion. It reminds me a lot of welfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_bone65 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 We have over 25 unions at my job, it is next to impossible to get any new policies passed here. I have no problems with the unions at all, I am just not in a position that requires a union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) freedom? so i would have free choice not to join a union at an car company? i wouldnt get harrassed? LOL thats a joke. unions dont want freedom. they want whats good for them. why cant i go in a do a job cheaper without the threat of retaliation from the union goons? unions are goon hacks imo. when the current chicago police supr. came to power, he wanted stricter physical fitness standards for the force. the union went nuts and shot it down cause godforbid, we have police officers in top condition. laughable. The police union opposes mandating a physical fitness regime, and argues consideration must be given for the stress and irregular hours of the job. "It's a personal decision we hope everyone would make favorable for themselves and for their families, but because of the type of job we have, it's very difficult to work something like this into a daily regimen," said Mark Donahue, president of the Fraternal Order of Police. "Having done this job myself, it is one of the most stressful occupations that you actually be in," Donahue added. "How many people at 3 o'clock in the morning are going to required to go from zero to 100 in a split second?" The union is open higher cash incentives, but not mandatory exams. Physical fitness is a personal priority of Supt. Weis. "We need to develop a mind-set that taking care of yourself, being fit, being nutritionally sound, being as healthy as you can be is what you need to be a police officer,'' said Weis, who is a body builder and is married to a trainer. The Chicago police union has already floated an idea to double the current incentive and eventually raise it to $850. Donahue said any mandate Weis has needs to be sent to the union first. just one example of so many Edited November 20, 2009 by dmarc117 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerx Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Is it? Walmart ring a bell? Why does Walmart not want a union? And why, since being threatened with having unions, has Walmart changed so many of it's practices? Step 1 - look at his statement again Step 2 - view your Walmart remarks from someone looking at without union-colored glasses Step 3 - respond with an impartial viewpoint otherwise it's in one ear out the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 In a past life (it seems that I have had and will continue to have many, perhaps I am a cat?) I was the Vice President of our Union local (1098 International Paperworkers Union) and I wanted to run for International rep at some point in time. The first step in getting your ticket punched there was to help in organizing another workplace. The first thing I learned is that as an organizer I should never, ever, ever go anywhere alone. All I will say is that the marks left by that beating were enough for the men and women of that plant to recognize the lengths management would go to maintain their profits at the expense of anyone. People find the unions to be an easy target because frankly, they are. I'd be lying to you if I said that unions are anything other than socialist in nature. They are designed to completely level the playing field as far as treatment of all workers, regardless of age, sex, race, color, creed or sexual orientation. Everyone is equal and everyone shares in the profits equally. That right there is the heart of socialism. The one and only thing of any value that any worker posesses in his or her fight (and don't kid yourselves, it is a constant fight) for compensation, a decent working environment, and a reasonable life outside of the workplace, is his or her labor. The only method available for for using this weapon in the fight is to withhold that labor. Based on the laws of this country, the rights of the individual virtually cease to exist once a person steps onto the company property. It is only by the grace of that company that they allow the worker ANYTHING. This is one place where the free market is not the best solution for the individual. One must remember that business is a game to most bean counters. Their job is to maximize profits for the shareholders, regardless if that shareholder is an individual or a group. Once all costs have been cut, the only way to increase profits is to increase productivity. That means trying to get every last bit of labor out of an individual worker. To do this, I've seen all types of tricks employed. Reduce the heating in a building so that workers will work faster to stay warm. A whole hour of prodictivity is lost with lunch and coffee/pee breaks, those can be done away with. Forced daily and weekly overtime at straight pay (Even though I was paid time and a half, working 60 + hour weeks for five years straight sucks. So what if you make more money if you have no time to spend it. And this was with a union.) Setting production quotas for an eight hour day that is impossible to meet in a twelve hour shift. The list is endless. A worker may have a family or not, but spending all their time in the workplace is not what life is about, regardless of what people may try to tell you. As an individual, you can withhold your labor, but in most communities there are plenty of others that are willing to take your place for a job. Withholding your labor is a surefire ticket to being jobless as there are no laws to protect the individual from the company. After all, the individual doesn't have the necessary clout (read: money) with the politicians to get laws passed in his favor. Therefore, the only way for the individual to protect him or herself from the company is to organize into a collective of all the workers. Now, the withholding of labor can be an effective means of getting the company to change its behavior. The downside to this is that the unions demand that all members be treated equally. The simple fact is that not every person who walks through the door of a company brings the same skills to the table. The only non-discriminant factor that the unions are willing to let people be judged on is longevity of employment or senority. Even this can be a means of showing favoritism to certain employees if the employer is unscrupulous. However, the fact remains that those individuals that do excel cannot be rewarded outside of the system of senority. This can be a demotivating factor for some, thereby encouraging mediocrity in the workplace. I'm sorry that I went on so long here, but this is a story that needs to be told, one that more people need to hear. I know that this is but the very tip of the iceberg, especially once individual personalities come into play. I've seen both sides, one where the company and the union worked hand in hand for the betterment of all and one where it was a daily brawl between union and management. The crux of the problem is that individual actors will most often act in their own best self interests rather than the best interests of the whole. This includes givebacks in times of trouble and a greater portion of the profits in times of plenty. The fact remains though, that there would be zero protection for the workers of this country, unionized or not, if there were no unions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 i just don't think they apply anymore. when the small coal towns with non-migrant workers existed, yes, the workers banding together to demand fair, humane treatment makes sense. today, all kinds of industry exists everywhere. if you aren't happy with your working conditions, then LEAVE. put in some effort to find the situation that is better and right for you individually. when companies make their employees happy, they are more successful companies. when workers demand this from their companies and leave if it doesn't exist, then companies will change. when unfair or inhumane or unreasonable working conditions exist, we have an overactive media to shed light on these situations that can put the company out of business. the notion of the employees of a company forming an organized body within the company that hinders the ability of the leadership of the company to actually run the company so that the institution that provides prosperity can continue to do so is suicide. if that organization doesn't offer you what you want, find one that does. we are all big boys and girls now. and as to the profit motive ... i say hallelujah to you. that propels people to risk it all to start new businesses and spread prosperity. we need to foster this and nuture this and celebrate this. yes, act when a company breaks the law or doesn't play by the rules, but institutionalizing a structure where the company's own employees are pitted against each other? come on ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 In a past life (it seems that I have had and will continue to have many, perhaps I am a cat?) I was the Vice President of our Union local (1098 International Paperworkers Union) and I wanted to run for International rep at some point in time. The first step in getting your ticket punched there was to help in organizing another workplace. The first thing I learned is that as an organizer I should never, ever, ever go anywhere alone. All I will say is that the marks left by that beating were enough for the men and women of that plant to recognize the lengths management would go to maintain their profits at the expense of anyone. seems like the shoe is on the other foot these days....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I think we should export unions to China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Step 1 - look at his statement againStep 2 - view your Walmart remarks from someone looking at without union-colored glasses Step 3 - respond with an impartial viewpoint otherwise it's in one ear out the other. I realize I'm unlikely to persuade you of anything but it is no coincidence that Walmart began changing the way it treats employees when the murmurings about unionizing began. Walmart (either corporately or on an individual store basis) had a whole raft of unethical and sometimes illegal practices designed to maximize profit by screwing it's individual workers. The thought of those individuals banding together to become much greater than the sum of the parts was enough to make Walmart management begin some level of reform. For damn sure they wouldn't have done so for individual action. Az said earlier that when employees and management are working together towards a goal, the most success is achieved. That's perfectly true. But it's worth noting that companies do not succeed purely on entrepreneurship, nor stockholders, nor management. They need labor too and labor should be reaping the same (proportional) rewards as the rest of the parties. Because an individual providing the labor has zero power (as KC pointed out), it's necessary to band together collectively (or at least have the right to do so) in order to level the playing field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpwallace49 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 In a past life (it seems that I have had and will continue to have many, perhaps I am a cat?) I was the Vice President of our Union local (1098 International Paperworkers Union) and I wanted to run for International rep at some point in time. The first step in getting your ticket punched there was to help in organizing another workplace. The first thing I learned is that as an organizer I should never, ever, ever go anywhere alone. All I will say is that the marks left by that beating were enough for the men and women of that plant to recognize the lengths management would go to maintain their profits at the expense of anyone. People find the unions to be an easy target because frankly, they are. I'd be lying to you if I said that unions are anything other than socialist in nature. They are designed to completely level the playing field as far as treatment of all workers, regardless of age, sex, race, color, creed or sexual orientation. Everyone is equal and everyone shares in the profits equally. That right there is the heart of socialism. The one and only thing of any value that any worker posesses in his or her fight (and don't kid yourselves, it is a constant fight) for compensation, a decent working environment, and a reasonable life outside of the workplace, is his or her labor. The only method available for for using this weapon in the fight is to withhold that labor. Based on the laws of this country, the rights of the individual virtually cease to exist once a person steps onto the company property. It is only by the grace of that company that they allow the worker ANYTHING. This is one place where the free market is not the best solution for the individual. One must remember that business is a game to most bean counters. Their job is to maximize profits for the shareholders, regardless if that shareholder is an individual or a group. Once all costs have been cut, the only way to increase profits is to increase productivity. That means trying to get every last bit of labor out of an individual worker. To do this, I've seen all types of tricks employed. Reduce the heating in a building so that workers will work faster to stay warm. A whole hour of prodictivity is lost with lunch and coffee/pee breaks, those can be done away with. Forced daily and weekly overtime at straight pay (Even though I was paid time and a half, working 60 + hour weeks for five years straight sucks. So what if you make more money if you have no time to spend it. And this was with a union.) Setting production quotas for an eight hour day that is impossible to meet in a twelve hour shift. The list is endless. A worker may have a family or not, but spending all their time in the workplace is not what life is about, regardless of what people may try to tell you. As an individual, you can withhold your labor, but in most communities there are plenty of others that are willing to take your place for a job. Withholding your labor is a surefire ticket to being jobless as there are no laws to protect the individual from the company. After all, the individual doesn't have the necessary clout (read: money) with the politicians to get laws passed in his favor. Therefore, the only way for the individual to protect him or herself from the company is to organize into a collective of all the workers. Now, the withholding of labor can be an effective means of getting the company to change its behavior. The downside to this is that the unions demand that all members be treated equally. The simple fact is that not every person who walks through the door of a company brings the same skills to the table. The only non-discriminant factor that the unions are willing to let people be judged on is longevity of employment or senority. Even this can be a means of showing favoritism to certain employees if the employer is unscrupulous. However, the fact remains that those individuals that do excel cannot be rewarded outside of the system of senority. This can be a demotivating factor for some, thereby encouraging mediocrity in the workplace. I'm sorry that I went on so long here, but this is a story that needs to be told, one that more people need to hear. I know that this is but the very tip of the iceberg, especially once individual personalities come into play. I've seen both sides, one where the company and the union worked hand in hand for the betterment of all and one where it was a daily brawl between union and management. The crux of the problem is that individual actors will most often act in their own best self interests rather than the best interests of the whole. This includes givebacks in times of trouble and a greater portion of the profits in times of plenty. The fact remains though, that there would be zero protection for the workers of this country, unionized or not, if there were no unions. Very well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliaz Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I see unions in this day and age as nothing more than political hatchet men working against economic progress and efficiency and working FOR, not the typical working man, but on behalf overpaid lifers in mostly broken industries. in my opinion and experience, employment relationships where employer and employee are working toward the same goal and focus on the mutually beneficial are a lot more productive for all involved than the typical union situation, which is always portrayed as "us versus them". +1 I made my opinion of unions when union goons that were on strike threatened the management at the company my dad was at. My dad, being in management, had to take the name off of our mailbox and house because they were following people home to find out where they lived. +1 While I support your right to your views rock, I couldn't disagree more. I come from a Blue collar union family. My step-father was the president for the local chapter of the International Association of Fire Fighters for 15 years and is a union man through and through. I believe that very few careers need unions and need is a relative term. Miners, police, and fire fighters. I've seen first hand how union people handle strikes and find it utterly deplorable. Granted, I am generalizing across all unions but I've been in many in my youth and the Teamsters (UPS) are by far the worst. I work for Verizon and a union has been attempting to weasel their way into our side of the shop so they can get their hands into Verizon Wireless and let me tell you these people are crooked lying SOBs. If you have been happy as a clam about the union you've been in then it means it is run honestly by honest people who look out for both the employees and the business and I salute you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 come on. the people who agree with you are "thinking people with no agenda" and those who disagree are "pompous asses who have no idea"? that is just plain weak, tom. Well, it's pretty obvious there is one view that blames every conceivable problem on unions, another view that understands the pros and cons of unions, and very few voices here that are 100% pro union. So, in that regard RR is completely correct in insinuating where the close minded lock and step prattling is coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Well, it's pretty obvious there is one view that blames every conceivable problem on unions, another view that understands the pros and cons of unions, and very few voices here that are 100% pro union. So, in that regard RR is completely correct in insinuating where the close minded lock and step prattling is coming from. they just keep throwin softballs to me....... http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1897130...-112109.article GOONS!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 they just keep throwin softballs to me....... http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1897130...-112109.article GOONS!!!!!!!!!! Well, that is a softball for sure. I mean other than that article saying that the two guys were Ironworkers, what connection are you making with what RR posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiley Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 that propels people to risk it all to start new businesses and spread prosperity. we need to foster this and nuture this and celebrate this. Bless you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I LOVE my union. God bless IATSE 728 and 495. Yeah baby!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrobn26 Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) come on. the people who agree with you are "thinking people with no agenda" and those who disagree are "pompous asses who have no idea"? that is just plain weak, tom. my stepdad was a diehard, blue collar union man his whole life. my mom, who has busted her ass her whole life to make ends meet working manufacturing jobs is just as vehemently anti-union. I made my own observations and came to my own conclusions, and, to over-generalize a bit for the sake of making my point without pulling any punches, I see unions in this day and age as nothing more than political hatchet men working against economic progress and efficiency and working FOR, not the typical working man, but on behalf overpaid lifers in mostly broken industries. in my opinion and experience, employment relationships where employer and employee are working toward the same goal and focus on the mutually beneficial are a lot more productive for all involved than the typical union situation, which is always portrayed as "us versus them". but, you know, getting back to my own family....we all had our differences of opinion without losing any love or respect for the other and where they were coming from. certainly never felt the need to refer to each other as "pompous asses" spewing "green puke". I've started this reply a half dozen times. This one I will stick with... Az, Yeah, maybe it could be a little weak, but it is an emotional issue, at least w/ me and as I can see several on this board. Because at least a few of the individuals who posted in favor of unions but are not currently in a union, was what my "thinking people with no agenda" comment was aimed at. No need to name them. *(read below for my green puke comment) On the other hand I haven't seen any anti-union people who currently belong to a union and can speak from current experience. I believe I've read all the posts (in both threads), but if you can point me to one I will consider their opinion w/ relish. BTW...no one has refuted my comments about taxes, parking,hotel costs, etc. as being a contributing factor for the convention(s) loss in Chi. Not to mention why sooo many of you are sooo concerned/angry/afraid of ~14% of the work force. Kid had by far the best posts. BTW...what union are you in? No need to answer if you don't want to. What you wrote is much more informative/knowledgeable than what I wrote. I admit mine was biased...very biased, but as I said this subject is very dear to me and I get emotional about it. My Dad started me and I continued in his memory. I have always been a union member and in every union I have been in (Blue or Grey collar) I have served them in many capacities. No extra pay...a lot of extra hours...but I feel it was worth while and that I performed a valuable service to all my brothers and sisters. Skippy's points about safety is a biggie. No one can deny unions making that a priority and having a continuing affect. Business may or may not. It depends on how close OSHA is looking, how much the business cares about their employees as people not dollars, and how much the bottom line can be increased. To think that all employers have safety as a high priority is ludicrous. Re-read Skippy's stuff. By the way Skip, OSHA ONLY covers non-governmental entities (they do not cover Federal, State, or Muni employees). I know this because 15-20 years ago I was being sued by a student who claimed my shop was unsafe. An Illinois rep from the department of labor safety division showed up to interview me and inspect my shop. The irony was he couldn't care less about the student (students have no one as an advocate ) as he was concerned about ME and wanted to make sure the school wasn't putting ME in danger!!! Long story short and after an hour inspection/interview, he said "I've never seen a welding facility this safe nor a person so concerned w/ safety.". There is a lot more to that story, but digress...again. They used to call it ILLIOSHA in Illinois, but later they just created this safety div.. Dats da facs at least in IL. Love your comment Taz! In this thread and on this board, that took balls. To the rest of you who at least see a need for unions, bless you! I'd try to name yall, but I'd miss someone and I don't want to disrespect anyone. You know who you are. Many others have put in well thought out answers. Yes some of the anti-union people included. Food for thought, but when I made this post my intent was not to try a sway anyone (Yeah like that could happen). It was my heartfelt feelings then and now. After long thought, I have no reason nor desire to retract anything I said. No regrets at all. I reiterate: Unions are here and I pray they always will be. They created America and stand FOR AMERICA! it's called FREEDOM! *Back to my "pompous asses" spewing "green puke" comment. If this (quote below) doesn't define it, what does? There's more, but I'll leave this as the best example. What does it have to do w/ either one of the posts? I don't think an explanation from me is needed.... rr26 they just keep throwin softballs to me....... http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1897130...article GOONS!!!!!!!!!! Edited November 22, 2009 by rocknrobn26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 RR, I'm no longer a Union member but it was the International Paperworkers Union. YOu are so right about the no extra pay and lots of extra hours. Also, there are times when you're reviled by your own membership because they sometimes can't see the bigger picture. I can remember when we were negotiating a contract and we brought the package to the membership for a vote. The negotiating team got grilled hard because we got a 25 cent cost of living increase for retirees. The membership wanted that for themselves never caring that they would someday be a retiree (75% of the membership had over 20 years in the company). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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