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LSU/Miss


detlef
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No, WSU and Indiana wouldn't be going to a bowl game playing Boise St. schedule. :wacko: If Boise St finishes undefeated and Oregon or Auburn lose a game the Bronco's should be in the NC championship game.End of story. If they do get to the NC game they'll win it. Bottom line with Boise St is whoever they line up against they beat. It's time we give them their just due. They have a great defense, unbelieveable wide receivers and probably the best or second best QB in college football. And they have one of the best head coaches in college football, just ask Bobby Stoops.

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agreed on Boise St. - not going to fault them for being in the WAC, they are legit. That defense is one of the best in the country- period. Their D line is the best in college football, they just shut out a decent Fresno St. team and held them to 8 first downs and 125 total yards. Fresno isn't great this year but they do have a respectable offense and have had no problem scroring against decent BCS teams.

 

A quote from, go anywhere, play anyone Pat Hill

 

"This Boise State team is the real deal. ... I hope they can make it to the big dance because they deserve it in my mind," Hill said. "I feel I can say that. We've played against some pretty darn good football teams in my time. Never have we been manhandled like that."

 

sorry, I think you put this team into Oregon, Aub or WIsky's schedule and the result would be the same.

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Wouldn't fault Boise, just not prepared to punish teams that play legit teams week in and week out. Never once denied that Boise is an excellent football team. But destroying New Mexico State and Utah State isn't what I call championship pedigree. Get them in a playoff where they would actually have to prove themselves, and I would love it. Until then, these teams don't deserve a thing.

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Wazzu has 2 wins right now. They beat Oregon State worse than Boise State did already. You seriously don't think they could find 6 wins on Boise's schedule? NMSU, Utah State, La Tech, San Jose State, OREGON State, Wyoming, Toledo, Idaho. Wazzu can't find 6 wins there? Not to mention games that would be toss ups like Fresno State and Hawaii at home, where certainly Wazzu wouldn't be overmatched. Come on now. 6 wins? You don't think Wazzu would trade their schedule of Stanford, Oregon, USC, Arizona, Oregon State (well maybe not them) for Boise's? Please. WAAAAAAAAY too much credit given to the WAC.

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Wazzu has 2 wins right now. They beat Oregon State worse than Boise State did already. You seriously don't think they could find 6 wins on Boise's schedule? NMSU, Utah State, La Tech, San Jose State, OREGON State, Wyoming, Toledo, Idaho. Wazzu can't find 6 wins there? Not to mention games that would be toss ups like Fresno State and Hawaii at home, where certainly Wazzu wouldn't be overmatched. Come on now. 6 wins? You don't think Wazzu would trade their schedule of Stanford, Oregon, USC, Arizona, Oregon State (well maybe not them) for Boise's? Please. WAAAAAAAAY too much credit given to the WAC.

 

Grasping :wacko: . The topic is Boise State, not WSU. Did you see what Oregon State did to SC yesterday? They overlooked WSU last week and got beat because of it.

 

Boise State has proven they can beat ANYBODY in college football. I believe that if Boise State played in the Pac-10, Big-10 or Big 12 this year they have no more than 1 loss. As I said, just giving them their due.

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Wouldn't fault Boise, just not prepared to punish teams that play legit teams week in and week out. Never once denied that Boise is an excellent football team. But destroying New Mexico State and Utah State isn't what I call championship pedigree. Get them in a playoff where they would actually have to prove themselves, and I would love it. Until then, these teams don't deserve a thing.

 

Would love to see Boise State in a playoff. Wouldn't be surprised if they were the last one standing. :wacko:

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what in the world are you talking about? this is an LSU/Ole MIss thread

 

this isn't a conference thing - nice try

 

I happen to think Stanford and Wisky are both better football teams than LSU - I am hardly the only one

 

I agree. LSU is teh suck. They've eeked out wins seemingly week after week they have no business winning. I'm convinced Les Miles made a deal with the devil. He's the luckiest coach in D1. LSU will get throttled in their bowl game. Stanford would lay a serious beatdown on them.

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Boise State has proven they can beat ANYBODY in college football. I believe that if Boise State played in the Pac-10, Big-10 or Big 12 this year they have no more than 1 loss. As I said, just giving them their due.

 

I have a hard time believing this until I see proof. There is a grind playing tougher competition each week. It is difficult to get a team up, week after week. I believe that is the reason that the top teams in major conferences tend to have an "off" day against the weaker teams in their conference. The stronger team is not as focused/motivated for the weaker team. I think it is much easier to play an obviously easier schedule and only have to really prepare for 1-2 difficult games the entire season.

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Didn't put the ranking, just copy-pasted from yahoo. And I really don't care what CBS has as rankings. Bottom feeders of major conferences schedule 1 or 2 teams like the teams Boise plays every week to get 1 or 2 wins (so they don't go completely winless, see teams like Indiana or Washington State). That's the difference. Those teams wouldn't win a game in any major conference. It's a pathetic schedule. Indiana and Washington State would be going to a bowl playing Boise and TCU's schedule. That's one of several differences. So just because CBS rates some 5 win Hawaii team, ahead of bottom feeders that have 1 or 2 wins means very little. Go down the schedules of the last 7 games. Tell me I'm wrong. Take the worst team on Oklahoma States schedule the past 7 games, and try and convince me that they, like Boise State, wouldn't beat the teams on Boise's schedule. Just a difference of opinion def. You respect them for the big epic win over Va Tech, I don't. You choose to overlook the sheer pathetic nature of the WAC Conference, and give no credit to BCS conferences, and underrate how difficult it is to play through that week in and week out. I don't.

I'm looking at the entire body of work for the 2010 season. Not 2009, not 2008. Boise destroys really really really bad teams that would struggle in FCS. Great that they destroy them, but really not enough to tell me that they deserve to be in the big game. If that is pre-determined before the season, then so be it. It may not be fair, but it damn sure isn't fair that you have all of these 1 loss teams that play better competition on a week to week basis with no margin for error, while Boise can play like complete crap and still win by 20 points (see La Tech game) because their opponent is that pathetic.

You know, once upon a time, you used to make points. Now, seemingly lacking the ability to do so, you've resorted to pretending the person you're arguing with is saying things he's not and just dispel these imaginary arguments. Likely because it's much easier that way.

 

1) I haven't made a big deal about the VaTech win, but it's not like I'm going to ignore it. With respect to Okie St's best win (A&M), it's certainly equal if not better.

2) The second part of that bolded bit is just as far off and you freaking know it. Each and every time I've gone down this path, I've said that I see no problem with giving an undefeated school from a legit BCS conference the benefit of the doubt over a school like BSU. Each and every freaking time and you know it. I just don't think it's fair to completely exclude one of these schools from the conversation entirely, and that's what you want to do. And that means that I wouldn't actually mind if a team went undefeated in a less dominant fashion than BSU did getting passed over. But when a team is doing what BSU is doing, I take notice.

 

Again, I don't see much point in arguing about whether or not it's harder to play a bunch of teams that are about the 60th-80th best teams in the country vs teams that are about the 80th-110th. Neither should pose a legit threat to any team in the top 10, so you're clutching at straws there. Again, OSU has played one more truly legit team than BSU and they lost that game. So, at worse, BSU would be in the same boat if they had another legit game on their schedule.

 

 

I have a hard time believing this until I see proof. There is a grind playing tougher competition each week. It is difficult to get a team up, week after week. I believe that is the reason that the top teams in major conferences tend to have an "off" day against the weaker teams in their conference. The stronger team is not as focused/motivated for the weaker team. I think it is much easier to play an obviously easier schedule and only have to really prepare for 1-2 difficult games the entire season.

I actually agree here and think it's silly to assume that BSU would be undefeated if they played in the SEC, Pac 10 (because they'd have to play everyone in the conference) or played in the Big 10 or Big 12 and didn't draw an easy batch of games. And that is precisely why I think that anyone coming from a legit BCS conference that goes undefeated should be taken ahead of them. At this point, OU v Auburn should be the NC game. Unless one of them loses.

 

Regardless, they are undefeated and there have been far too many times when an obviously undeserving BCS school got to go to the NC game and was embarrassed that I think it's silly we should think of it as some hallowed ground that should not be tainted by an interloper like BSU.

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Why would one Pac 10 team beating another affect my thoughts towards the Pac 10? It's a net zero sum argument. Besides, it's not like the Pac 10 is resting it's National hopes on USC. 1) USC is not a great team, they're a good one. One of the differences between a good team and a great one is that a good team is more likely to step on their dick against a decent team with enough talent to make you pay for not showing up. And that's exactly what OSU is. OSU is not a good team because they too, fail to compete week in and week out and fail more often than USC. However, like a team like, say Ole Miss, they're dangerous enough to make you pay if you mail it in.

You answered one of my questions now how about this one

 

Will you at least now admit, Coach Miles is a pretty good coach or do you still attribute his win/loss record all to luck?

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So just because CBS rates some 5 win Hawaii team, ahead of bottom feeders that have 1 or 2 wins means very little.

Oh, and for the record, Hawaii has 8 wins, not 5. I can see the argument for moving them maybe 5 or spots back but why shouldn't they be behind, say, Baylor? Baylor played exactly 4 good teams, and they lost badly to all of them. From complete (~30 pt) routs at the hands of TCU, OSU, and OU to a 12 pt loss at the hands of A&M. But I counted Baylor in the same, decent but not good category for OSU that I counted Hawaii in for BSU. Are you saying OSU got the tougher draw of the two there?

 

What about Texas Tech? KSU? Texas? They're all in the same quagmire that Fresno St. Oregon St, Toledo are in. Okie St played the first batch, BSU played the other. Are you really going try and say one batch is measurably harder than the other?

 

Because, surely you're not basing it on the absolute bottom of each team's schedule barrel, right? Surely you're not saying that OSU's 10th-12th best teams on their schedule were "better" than the dregs of BSU's schedule. ETA: Well, correction, I'll give you that the crappiest teams on OSU's schedule are better than the crappiest teams on BSU's. Rather, surely you're not pointing to that fact as anything that matters in the slightest.

 

Again, OSU had to "get up" for one more "good" and the same amount of "decent but not good" teams as BSU, and they lost that game. By 10 pts, I might add, when they scored a TD with just over a minute to go to cut the lead from 17.

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You answered one of my questions now how about this one

 

Will you at least now admit, Coach Miles is a pretty good coach or do you still attribute his win/loss record all to luck?

It's neither luck or good coaching. LSU has better players than all but two of the teams he's faced and he's 1-1 in those games. Now, maybe FL has as good or better players, but I doubt it. Because their coach has excelled at every level and I have to give him the benefit of the doubt that they are lacking horses or they'd be better. Besides, FL has played exactly 4 good teams and lost to all of them. Bama and SC buried them but LSU needed some late trickery to do the same. If LSU is as good as they should be, they take care of this game like Bama and SC did.

 

But UNC took him down to the wire despite missing 13 starters (basically their entire D) that they went into the training camp figuring they'd have on their team.

 

He needed a 2nd crack on the last play of the game to beat a very much rebuilding (assuming they're even doing that) Tenn team. Oh, and btw, if you can review too many men on the field, why can't they review the fact that one of the LSU players threw his helmet off in disgust during the play?

 

Ole Miss is not a good team. For some reason everyone keeps pointing to them as some big test, but they've lost 7 games now this year. And you guys needed to pull that one out as well.

 

In short, either his players or the other teams players keep bailing Miles out.

 

He's obviously not a bad coach, but there are certainly better coaches out there and one of them would be getting more out of that team.

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Oh, and for the record, Hawaii has 8 wins, not 5. I can see the argument for moving them maybe 5 or spots back but why shouldn't they be behind, say, Baylor? Baylor played exactly 4 good teams, and they lost badly to all of them. From complete (~30 pt) routs at the hands of TCU, OSU, and OU to a 12 pt loss at the hands of A&M. But I counted Baylor in the same, decent but not good category for OSU that I counted Hawaii in for BSU. Are you saying OSU got the tougher draw of the two there?

 

What about Texas Tech? KSU? Texas? They're all in the same quagmire that Fresno St. Oregon St, Toledo are in. Okie St played the first batch, BSU played the other. Are you really going try and say one batch is measurably harder than the other?

 

Because, surely you're not basing it on the absolute bottom of each team's schedule barrel, right? Surely you're not saying that OSU's 10th-12th best teams on their schedule were "better" than the dregs of BSU's schedule.

 

Again, OSU had to "get up" for one more "good" and the same amount of "decent but not good" teams as BSU, and they lost that game.

 

I REALLY wish we wouldn't put Hawaii in any of these conversations with regard to being a good team. I recollect a few years back when a Championship caliber Hawaii team took the field against UGA... not pretty what the dawgs did to Colt Brennan that night. Hell, he was in worse shape after that game than he is from this crash...

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I REALLY wish we wouldn't put Hawaii in any of these conversations with regard to being a good team. I recollect a few years back when a Championship caliber Hawaii team took the field against UGA... not pretty what the dawgs did to Colt Brennan that night. Hell, he was in worse shape after that game than he is from this crash...

Well, that's convenient, because I only mentioned them in the "decent but not good" category. So, sounds like we're on the same page. :wacko:

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I actually agree here and think it's silly to assume that BSU would be undefeated if they played in the SEC, Pac 10 (because they'd have to play everyone in the conference) or played in the Big 10 or Big 12 and didn't draw an easy batch of games. And that is precisely why I think that anyone coming from a legit BCS conference that goes undefeated should be taken ahead of them. At this point, OU v Auburn should be the NC game. Unless one of them loses.

 

Regardless, they are undefeated and there have been far too many times when an obviously undeserving BCS school got to go to the NC game and was embarrassed that I think it's silly we should think of it as some hallowed ground that should not be tainted by an interloper like BSU.

 

 

I don't - what exactly has Boise State shown that they wouldn't have the same record with Oregon's, Auburn's or LSU,Wisky schedule?? they have a veteran team with great skill players and one of the best defenses in the country. Throw in one of the best coaches in america who obvioulsy prepares them and gets them ready each and every week.

 

I think it is silly to assume they wouldn't have the same record as the other top teams in the standings. Going undefeated is obviously extremely difficult in a BCS conference - maybe they drop 1 game, but cmon they as good or better than any team in america.

 

This whole "grind" thing is a bit overrated when talking about this particular Boise team............

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He's obviously not a bad coach, but there are certainly better coaches out there and one of them would be getting more out of that team.
I know my question was extremely hard for you to answer considering you apparently just don't like the man. However recruiting is a HUGE part of coaching and so is WINNING both of which Miles has excelled.

 

So exactly who are these great coaches you speak of?

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I don't - what exactly has Boise State shown that they wouldn't have the same record with Oregon's, Auburn's or LSU,Wisky schedule?? they have a veteran team with great skill players and one of the best defenses in the country. Throw in one of the best coaches in america who obvioulsy prepares them and gets them ready each and every week.

 

I think it is silly to assume they wouldn't have the same record as the other top teams in the standings. Going undefeated is obviously extremely difficult in a BCS conference - maybe they drop 1 game, but cmon they as good or better than any team in america.

 

This whole "grind" thing is a bit overrated when talking about this particular Boise team............

I actually think it would be silly to assume either way. I think they'd have a fine chance of going undefeated, but no better than either OU or Auburn, neither of whom has managed yet to close the deal. To assume that BSU would run the table vs OU, Stanford, USC, and AU, plus possibly another OOC game against a BCS school (or some other conference equivalent) is about as foolish as assuming there's no way they would. Actually, it's more foolish considering how many very good teams fail to run the table each year. We usually don't end up with USC v Texas '05. We usually end up with at least 1 team with a loss at the end.

 

So, assuming BSU certainly runs the table is basically putting them on par with one of those all time great teams, and I'm not prepared to do that. I am prepared to say they're as good as anyone out there this year, but that's all.

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Well, that's convenient, because I only mentioned them in the "decent but not good" category. So, sounds like we're on the same page. :wacko:

 

They have 8 wins, though, and only one loss in conference, and are beating teams handily, 42 to 7 or so . Think this might show what kind of SOS some of these mid major teams face...

Edited by SEC=UGA
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I know my question was extremely hard for you to answer considering you apparently just don't like the man. However recruiting is a HUGE part of coaching and so is WINNING both of which Miles has excelled.

 

So exactly who are these great coaches you speak of?

Being LSU is also a huge part of recruiting. Listen, I have nothing personal against Miles and don't paint me as some lone wolf in thinking he's not all that. Hell, I've been hearing some LSU fans were torn with the Bama game. Obviously they wanted to win, but they also knew it would lessen the chances of getting rid of Miles.

 

I would say that he's, at best, the 4th best coach in the SEC. Behind Saben, Urban, and, wait for it... Nutt. Beamer for V Tech and Harbaugh for Stanford come to mind. I think Oregon, BSU, and TCU all have better coaches.

 

Honestly, I actually think it's a rather difficult topic considering all the variables. All I know is that I see the same issues in a guy like Singletary. There's a lack of composure. There's one guy who should know what the hell is going on at all times and that's the HC. And Les Miles is not that guy. Clock management is freaking elementary and dude doesn't have it. There is so much money tied up in a college program, you can't spend something on having someone know what the hell the time situation is? Really? Even if it's not him, he needs to find someone and delegate that chight.

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They have 8 wins, though, and only one loss in conference, and are beating teams handily, 42 to 7 or so . Think this might show what kind of SOS some of these mid major teams face...

But that discount is already built into the rankings I used. Nevada only has 1 loss (in conference btw) and yet are 19th. They're likely the lowest ranked 1-loss team, and that's fine. In fact, every 2 loss team besides Utah and N Illinois is also ranked ahead of them. So, basically everyone is saying that they'd have 2-3 more losses if they played a tougher schedule by virtue of where they have them ranked. That seems like enough of a discount, doesn't it?

 

Hawaii is "ranked" in the mid 30s, right around a bunch of teams with more losses than them, so again, it's built in.

 

But you can't double dip on that. You can't discount Nevada back to 19 instead of the 5-10 that other 1-loss teams are and then turn around and discount them again by saying they shouldn't be 19. They're already 19 instead of 10 for those reasons.

Edited by detlef
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But that discount is already built into the rankings I used. Nevada only has 1 loss (in conference btw) and yet are 19th. They're likely the lowest ranked 1-loss team, and that's fine. Hawaii is "ranked" in the mid 30s, right around a bunch of teams with more losses than them, so again, it's built in.

 

But you can't double dip on that. You can't discount Nevada back to 19 instead of the 5-10 that other 1-loss teams are and then turn around and discount them again by saying they shouldn't be 19. They're already 19 instead of 10 for those reasons.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that these guys aren't tested throughout the season, though Hawaii's OOC scheduling is to be admired, like the major conference contenders are.

 

Let's look at the 2007 undefeated season, Hawaii was ranked 10th at the end of the year. Why is it that all of a sudden an undefeated team from the same conference gets ranked in the top 5? What has changed? The fact that Boise goes undefeated year in and year out, the fact that they win bowl games against highly rated teams? This is why it is such a shame that last year the Bowl Selection Committee decided to pit TCU and Boise against one another. Last year they should have had TCU and Boise play major conference teams and settled this once and for all so we wouldn't be going through this crap again this year. Give them both a shot... but I think it is a farce to believe that either of these teams would go undefeated through a major conference schedule.

 

I do assert that Boise could, on any day, in any one game, beat anyone in the country and I think they should get their shot if they are undefeated and Auburn or Oregon lose (If both Lose and TCU and Boise are undefeated, they should be in the NC game against one another.) But, I think the outcome of their season would be much different if they were playing major conference teams, with some size and skill, each week. I truly believe that id Boise, this season, played UGA 6 times in a row, UGA would walk away with at least two wins.

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I guess what I'm saying is that these guys aren't tested throughout the season, though Hawaii's OOC scheduling is to be admired, like the major conference contenders are.

 

Let's look at the 2007 undefeated season, Hawaii was ranked 10th at the end of the year. Why is it that all of a sudden an undefeated team from the same conference gets ranked in the top 5? What has changed? The fact that Boise goes undefeated year in and year out, the fact that they win bowl games against highly rated teams? This is why it is such a shame that last year the Bowl Selection Committee decided to pit TCU and Boise against one another. Last year they should have had TCU and Boise play major conference teams and settled this once and for all so we wouldn't be going through this crap again this year. Give them both a shot... but I think it is a farce to believe that either of these teams would go undefeated through a major conference schedule.

 

I do assert that Boise could, on any day, in any one game, beat anyone in the country and I think they should get their shot if they are undefeated and Auburn or Oregon lose (If both Lose and TCU and Boise are undefeated, they should be in the NC game against one another.) But, I think the outcome of their season would be much different if they were playing major conference teams, with some size and skill, each week. I truly believe that id Boise, this season, played UGA 6 times in a row, UGA would walk away with at least two wins.

I basically agree with everything you're saying.

 

While I think BSU could go undefeated playing, Auburn's or Oregon's schedule (they're actually ahead of Oregon in SOS, btw), I hardly think it is a certainty. In fact, I don't even think it is likely. Just like, should either OU or Auburn run the table, both will have achieved something that I think is unlikely.

 

And yes, perhaps UGA would take 2 of 6 off BSU. Then again, they could likely do so against anyone else in the top 10.

 

Ultimately though, like you, I just want to see it. As much as I love the back and forth and what if's, what I really want is to see it once and for all. And if they get run off the field, then there you go. The conversation is over. Because this BSU and TCU team seem different than the undefeated outsiders of the past. So if these guys can't compete... Now, if they win or at least compete, then that means when a team looks as special as these teams look this year, they should, again, be taken seriously. Taken ahead of another undefeated school from a legit BCS conference? Maybe not, but certainly ahead of everyone else.

Edited by detlef
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I guess what I'm saying is that these guys aren't tested throughout the season, though Hawaii's OOC scheduling is to be admired, like the major conference contenders are.

 

Let's look at the 2007 undefeated season, Hawaii was ranked 10th at the end of the year. Why is it that all of a sudden an undefeated team from the same conference gets ranked in the top 5? What has changed? The fact that Boise goes undefeated year in and year out, the fact that they win bowl games against highly rated teams? This is why it is such a shame that last year the Bowl Selection Committee decided to pit TCU and Boise against one another. Last year they should have had TCU and Boise play major conference teams and settled this once and for all so we wouldn't be going through this crap again this year. Give them both a shot... but I think it is a farce to believe that either of these teams would go undefeated through a major conference schedule.I do assert that Boise could, on any day, in any one game, beat anyone in the country and I think they should get their shot if they are undefeated and Auburn or Oregon lose (If both Lose and TCU and Boise are undefeated, they should be in the NC game against one another.) But, I think the outcome of their season would be much different if they were playing major conference teams, with some size and skill, each week. I truly believe that id Boise, this season, played UGA 6 times in a row, UGA would walk away with at least two wins.

 

why not? if Oregon and Auburn are still standing why couldn't Boise? not saying they would, going undefeated is extremely difficult - but to automaticcaly discredit this team is foolish.

 

uh, no. Sorry UGA would be lucky to get 1 win vs this team

 

listen, obviously Boise gets a bit of a pass playing a WAC schedule. But let's just ignore the conference for a second and take a look at the team on it's own. Just outstanding in every phase of the game

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why not? if Oregon and Auburn are still standing why couldn't Boise? not saying they would, going undefeated is extremely difficult - but to automaticcaly discredit this team is foolish.

 

uh, no. Sorry UGA would be lucky to get 1 win vs this team

 

listen, obviously Boise gets a bit of a pass playing a WAC schedule. But let's just ignore the conference for a second and take a look at the team on it's own. Just outstanding in every phase of the game

 

The reason being is that Boise does not have the depth, size, or skilled players that these major conference teams have. If you look at the sheer size that the SEC has when compared to all the teams in the WAC, it becomes apparent that Boise is playing against a different set of competition. When you look at the speed that Boise is playing against, it doesn't match up. Boise is good, no doubt, but they are playing inferior competition. Boise's coach may be one of the best in the country, but he is coaching against inferior competition. When they play the big games at the end of the season, they have a month to prepare. UGA doesn't have a month to prepare down the stretch when playing UT, Florida, Auburn, GT, in subsequent weeks. UGA doesn't have the ability to not worry about a couple of starters being injured and out for two weeks when they have USC, Ole Miss, TN, LSU, etc... in back to back weeks. They have to plug and play.

 

Again, Boise is an outstanding team. Between their coaching and talent, I truly believe that they on any given day can beat any team in the nation... They just don't have the other issues that the major conference teams have with having to go out every week and play solid teams with extremely talented and big players.

 

None if this is going to get solved in the current system, it must be changed.

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SEC UGA - have you watched Boise STate play?? do you realize they have one of the best defensive fronts in the country?? they are more physical up front than anyone in the SEC, except LSU (although they looked like chit vs Ole Miss)

 

the aren't lacking size. speed or athleticism against anyone. Their WR are phenomenal, the QB is a machine and both RB are sick......

 

time to focus on the team, not the conference

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