Jackass Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I just try and get through each day doing the best I can according to what I think is right vs. wrong. If that's not good enough, so be it. Enjoy hell. Hopefully they'll at least serve some ice cold beverages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonorator Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I been away from my studies for a number of years and may have erred. I will try to do better. HELL - The common grave of mankind. Anyone who dies goes to hell until they are resurrected, as did.Jesus. The is no pain or suffering in hell. See Eccl 9: 5,6 and Psalm 146:4 GEHENNA - The fiery Gehenna spoken of in the bible. The place outside Jerusalem, the Valley of Hinnom. This was a site of idolatrous worship. This site became an incinerator for garbage, dead animals and criminals. Sulfur and brimstone was added to help the burning. Living persons were not pitched into Gehenna. No one suffered as being tormented. It is referring being completely removed from God's memory as not to receive a resurrection. When the scriptures speak of a "fiery Gehenna" it also has the same meaning as "the lake of fire." See Matt 10:28 So anyone who dies goes to hell until they are resurrected but being pitched into the "fire" means you are removed from God's memory. That's my understanding of the scriptures through my studies. I do not debate or argue with ones about it. Everyone has to decide for oneself. However, I do not mind discussing why I believe this or share info on it. This should be done through a PM though to respect the Huddle's rules. but this begs the question ... why make things so vague? this is your eternal salvation in the balance. we as a people spend most of our time reading and decoding and interpreting and deciding. couldn't the creator of the universe find a more effective way to lay out things for us? if he cares so much, wouldn't the way for us be very clear? we have one guy who claimed he is the way some 2000 years ago and 4 guys captured it in their writings. if we reject this way, we don't really know what happens other than we will be separated from god ... which kind of feels like daily life here on earth anyway. or, separated from god could mean burning and searing in fire for all eternity. i'm sorry but we are fair to criticize this system if a major point such as this is not at all clear. i am a christian, but with very weak faith. sometimes it's stronger, other times it feels non-existent. i'm a christian because i want to have faith in something more. i believe the teachings of jesus are the most powerful life lessons every put down. when i turn off my brain and just go with the flow, it's healing because i can momentarily separate myself from the raw cruelty of life and the ultimate end of this life that we all face. when i'm unable to shut off the analytical, then it hammers away at my faith because there is no way to make sense of christianity on any terms when reason is applied. so you end up with largely a blind faith, suspension of reason, and the self-created bliss that follows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I'm too hung over to type up a serious post in this thread. The bottom line here is that the fact that individuals are debating the existence of hell means that they've already bought into the hype surrounding the question and in the process, dismissed the validity of any other religion than Christianity. Seems pretty close minded IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 ...dismissed the validity of any other religion than Christianity. Seems pretty close minded IMO. and dismissing the validity of ALL religion including Christianity is open-minded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I'm too hung over to type up a serious post in this thread. The bottom line here is that the fact that individuals are debating the existence of hell means that they've already bought into the hype surrounding the question and in the process, dismissed the validity of any other religion than Christianity. Seems pretty close minded IMO. You gotta remember most are brainwashed since childhood on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 and dismissing the validity of ALL religion including Christianity is open-minded i may be off here -but im not sure the vette owner has ever done that but he can defend himself all on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Enjoy hell. Hopefully they'll at least serve some ice cold beverages. ill be bringing them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 One man's heaven is TimC's hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 One man's heaven is TimC's hell. That minivan will burn in Hell when Zora Duntov returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Roller Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 The Preacher is wrong, we must understand that there is the dreadful pit of the glowing flames of the wrath of God; there is hell's wide gaping mouth open; and you have nothing to stand upon, nor any thing to take hold of; there is nothing between you and hell but the air; it is only the power and mere pleasure of God that holds you up. You probably are not sensible of this; you find you are kept out of hell, but do not see the hand of God in it; but look at other things, as the goodstate of your bodily constitution, your care of your own life, and the means you use for your own preservation. But indeed these things are nothing; if God should withdraw his hand, they would avail no more to keep you from falling, than the thin air to hold up a person that is suspended in it. Your wickedness makes you as it were heavy as lead, and to tend downwards with great weight and pressure towards hell; and if God should let you go, you would immediately sink and swiftly descend and plunge into the bottomless gulf, and your healthy constitution, and your own care and prudence, and best contrivance, and all your righteousness, would have no more influence to uphold you and keep you out of hell, than a spider's web would have to stop a fallen rock. Were it not for the sovereign pleasure of God, the earth would not bear you one moment; for you are a burden to it; the creation groans with you; the creature is made subject to the bondage of your corruption, not willingly; the sun does not willingly shine upon you to give you light to serve sin and Satan; the earth does not willingly yield her increase to satisfy your lusts; nor is it willingly a stage for your wickedness to be acted upon; the air does not willingly serve you for breath to maintain the flame of life in your vitals, while you spend your life in the service of God's enemies. God's creatures are good, and were made for men to serve God with, and do not willingly subserve to any other purpose, and groan when they are abused to purposes so directly contrary to their nature and end. And the world would spew you out, were it not for the sovereign hand of him who hath subjected it in hope. There are black clouds of God's wrath now hanging directly over your heads, full of the dreadful storm, and big with thunder; and were it not for the restraining hand of God, it would immediately burst forth upon you. The sovereign pleasure of God, for the present, stays his rough wind; otherwise it would come with fury, and your destruction would come like a whirlwind, and you would be like the chaff of the summer threshing floor. The wrath of God is like great waters that are damned for the present; they increase more and more, and rise higher and higher, till an outlet is given; and the longer the stream is stopped, the more rapid and mighty is its course, when once it is let loose. It is true, that judgment against your evil works has not been executed hitherto; the floods of God's vengeance have been withheld; but your guilt in the mean time is constantly increasing, and you are every day treasuring up more wrath; the waters are constantly rising, and waxing more and more mighty; and there is nothing but the mere pleasure of God, that holds the waters back, that are unwilling to be stopped, and press hard to go forward. If God should only withdraw his hand from the flood-gate, it would immediately fly open, and the fiery floods of the fierceness and wrath of God, would rush forth with inconceivable fury, and would come upon you with omnipotent power; and if your strength were ten thousand times greater than it is, yea, ten thousand times greater than the strength of the stoutest, sturdiest devil in hell, it would be nothing to withstand or endure it. The bow of God's wrath is bent, and the arrow made ready on the string, and justice bends the arrow at your heart, and strains the bow, and it is nothing but the mere pleasure of God, and that of an angry God, without any promise or obligation at all, that keeps the arrow one moment from being made drunk with your blood. Thus all you that never passed under a great change of heart, by the mighty power of the Spirit of God upon your souls; all you that were never born again, and made new creatures, and raised from being dead in sin, to a state of new, and before altogether unexperienced light and life, are in the hands of an angry God. However you may have reformed your life in many things, and may have had religious affections, and may keep up a form of religion in your families and closets, and in the house of God, it is nothing but his mere pleasure that keeps you from being this moment swallowed up in everlasting destruction. However unconvinced you may now be of the truth of what you hear, by and by you will be fully convinced of it. Those that are gone from being in the like circumstances with you, see that it was so with them; for destruction came suddenly upon most of them; when they expected nothing of it, and while they were saying, Peace and safety: now they see, that those things on which they depended for peace and safety, were nothing but thin air and empty shadows. The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you were suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God's hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell... If I was a "Sinner In The Hands Of An Angry God" I would give credence to the above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Which holy word? Where does this leave poor old Ghandi - outside God's grace, whatever that is? If Hell isn't fire and brimstone but merely "outside God's grace", how does that change the argument? It isn't the literal definition of the characteristics of hell that are in dispute, it is the concept that a perfectly good human being would be consigned to it at all. Can we return to addressing the logic that assumes Gandhi and his ilk get to go to hell (or are refused access to heaven), as opposed to discussing the nature of hell itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Can we return to addressing the logic that assumes Gandhi and his ilk get to go to hell (or are refused access to heaven), as opposed to discussing the nature of hell itself? only 172,000 can get to heaven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 only 172,000 can get to heaven I won a Mormon fast track to luxury heaven card in a game of Magic! yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I won a Mormon fast track to luxury heaven card in a game of Magic! yesterday. Or 144,000 (yukon math) and that is for Jehovas Witnesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Which holy word? Where does this leave poor old Ghandi - outside God's grace, whatever that is? If Hell isn't fire and brimstone but merely "outside God's grace", how does that change the argument? It isn't the literal definition of the characteristics of hell that are in dispute, it is the concept that a perfectly good human being would be consigned to it at all. Can we return to addressing the logic that assumes Gandhi and his ilk get to go to hell (or are refused access to heaven), as opposed to discussing the nature of hell itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 HELL does exist but not as a fiery place of torment. Its the eternal grave of mankind. It symbolizes complete destruction as was Gehenna a place outside Jerusalem where the garbage was burned. The bible says Jesus went to hell but was resurrected. The bad will be burned in HELL in that they will be completely destroyed but not suffer eternal torment. do you believe Jesus is the son of God or rather the archangel Michael? ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Can we return to addressing the logic that assumes Gandhi and his ilk get to go to hell (or are refused access to heaven), as opposed to discussing the nature of hell itself? sure, thought I don't think you are that open minded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 do you believe Jesus is the son of God or rather the archangel Michael? ...... or the archangel Michael whom became Jesus, son of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 or the archangel Michael whom became Jesus, son of God. and was not crucified but hung on a post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) and was not crucified but hung on a post? you got it. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...22054224AAiuI3g Does the Greek word stauros suggest a cross beam ? The Greek word "stauros" which means, "an upright stake . Best Answer - Chosen by Asker The words "cross" and "crucify" are mistranslations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo. According to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, STAUROS denotes, primarily, an upright pole or stake. The shape of the two-beamed cross had its origin in ancient Chaldea and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz. In the third century A.D., pagans were received into the apostate ecclesiastical system and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. According to The Companion Bible, crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian Sun-god. The evidence is complete; the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake, not on two pieces of timber placed at an angle. According to Encyclopaedia Britannica, in the Egyptian churches the cross was a pagan symbol of life borrowed by the Christians and interpreted in the pagan manner. According to Greek dictionaries and lexicons, the primary meaning of stauros is an upright pale, pole, or stake. The secondary meaning of "cross" is admitted to be a "later" rendering. In spite of the evidence, almost all common versions of the Scriptures persist with the Latin Vulgate's crux (meaning cross) as the rendering of the Greek stauros. The most accepted reason for the "cross" being brought into Messianic worship is Constantine's famous vision of "the cross superimposed on the sun" in A.D. 312. What he saw is nowhere to be found in Scripture. Even after his so-called "conversion," his coins showed an even-armed cross as a symbol for the Sun-god. Many scholars have doubted the "conversion" of Constantine because of the wicked deeds that he did afterwards. After Constantine had the "vision of the cross," he promoted another variety of the cross, the Chi-Rho or Labarum. This has been explained as representing the first letters of the name Christos (CH and R, or, in Greek, X and P). The identical symbols were found as inscriptions on rock, dating from ca. 2500 B.C., being interpreted as "a combination of the two Sun-symbols." Another proof of its pagan origin is that the identical symbol was found on a coin of Ptolemeus III from 247-222 B.C. According to An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Traditional Symbols, the labarum was also an emblem of the Chaldean sky-god. Emperor Constantine adopted the labarum as the imperial ensign. According to Dictionary of Mythology Folklore and Symbols, the symbol was in use long before Christianity. Chi probably stood for Great Fire or Sun. Rho probably stood for Pater or Patah (Father). The word labarum yields "everlasting Father Sun." Edited March 26, 2011 by Footballjoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 you got it. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...22054224AAiuI3g Does the Greek word stauros suggest a cross beam ? The Greek word "stauros" which means, "an upright stake . Best Answer - Chosen by Asker The words "cross" and "crucify" are mistranslations, a "later rendering," of the Greek words stauros and stauroo. According to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, STAUROS denotes, primarily, an upright pole or stake. The shape of the two-beamed cross had its origin in ancient Chaldea and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz. In the third century A.D., pagans were received into the apostate ecclesiastical system and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. According to The Companion Bible, crosses were used as symbols of the Babylonian Sun-god. The evidence is complete; the Lord was put to death upon an upright stake, not on two pieces of timber placed at an angle. According to Encyclopaedia Britannica, in the Egyptian churches the cross was a pagan symbol of life borrowed by the Christians and interpreted in the pagan manner. According to Greek dictionaries and lexicons, the primary meaning of stauros is an upright pale, pole, or stake. The secondary meaning of "cross" is admitted to be a "later" rendering. In spite of the evidence, almost all common versions of the Scriptures persist with the Latin Vulgate's crux (meaning cross) as the rendering of the Greek stauros. The most accepted reason for the "cross" being brought into Messianic worship is Constantine's famous vision of "the cross superimposed on the sun" in A.D. 312. What he saw is nowhere to be found in Scripture. Even after his so-called "conversion," his coins showed an even-armed cross as a symbol for the Sun-god. Many scholars have doubted the "conversion" of Constantine because of the wicked deeds that he did afterwards. After Constantine had the "vision of the cross," he promoted another variety of the cross, the Chi-Rho or Labarum. This has been explained as representing the first letters of the name Christos (CH and R, or, in Greek, X and P). The identical symbols were found as inscriptions on rock, dating from ca. 2500 B.C., being interpreted as "a combination of the two Sun-symbols." Another proof of its pagan origin is that the identical symbol was found on a coin of Ptolemeus III from 247-222 B.C. According to An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Traditional Symbols, the labarum was also an emblem of the Chaldean sky-god. Emperor Constantine adopted the labarum as the imperial ensign. According to Dictionary of Mythology Folklore and Symbols, the symbol was in use long before Christianity. Chi probably stood for Great Fire or Sun. Rho probably stood for Pater or Patah (Father). The word labarum yields "everlasting Father Sun." Even though I'm really no fan of the whole JW thing I have to give you props. You are only the second one I've ever known to really discuss their beliefs with non JW. The missionaries are unwilling to do that. Perhaps that is why they no longer stop by my house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Even though I'm really no fan of the whole JW thing I have to give you props. You are only the second one I've ever known to really discuss their beliefs with non JW. The missionaries are unwilling to do that. Perhaps that is why they no longer stop by my house We don't really have missionaries in the US. Everyone goes in the ministry. The ones coming to your house are from the local congregation. Perhaps you are confusing us with the Mormons. Actually we love to discuss the bible, don't like to argue though. At least that what is taught. No need for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polksalet Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 We don't really have missionaries in the US. Everyone goes in the ministry. The ones coming to your house are from the local congregation. Perhaps you are confusing us with the Mormons. Actually we love to discuss the bible, don't like to argue though. At least that what is taught. No need for that. I know the difference between the mormons and jw. Ok, then I know one jw who is willing to discuss the basis of their faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I feel that "Jesus Christ!" is the most appropriate oath for this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 I know the difference between the mormons and jw. Ok, then I know one jw who is willing to discuss the basis of their faith. I am always willing to discuss my believes, just not willing to argue. I have been inactive for about 6 years or so though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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