Bin Laden - Dead

[TimC]

i just can't stop thinking of how absolutely badass it must've felt to have Osama Bin Laden in your gunsight the second before pulling the trigger.

[SEC=UGA]

Okay, now I am satisfied with my unease of the news.

 

As crappy as it may sound I wish we had the body to display on the white house lawn for all to see. This fracker's actions directly affected my family and I would love nothing more than to piss on his corpse.

 

Would you take Jimmy Carter in his stead?

[bpwallace49]

apparently abbotobad is some sort of stronghold for the pakistani military and intelligence services. either they knew exactly where he was all along, or they are the most incompetent buffoons of any government on the planet. kinda sucks to be them today.

 

+ a bazillion

[Moss6]

Brian Williams reported before the speech that this was leaked a little earlier last night to NYPD & NYFD who drove around with lights on sirens off

[rattsass]

I disagree completely. Making bodies disappear without trace is exactly what was done post-Nuremberg. Does Yon think public display of the body wouldn't be seen as gloating and further inflame Bin Laden's sympathizers?

Not showing it inflames me. But I'm an American and I come second.

[Azazello1313]

I disagree completely. Making bodies disappear without trace is exactly what was done post-Nuremberg. Does Yon think public display of the body wouldn't be seen as gloating and further inflame Bin Laden's sympathizers?

 

I agree with you. any sort of public display would have been a bad idea. and getting rid of the body quickly in the ocean somewhere, I think it makes a lot of sense, as long as plenty of evidence for DNA and whatnot was kept on hand. but I think the world ought to see a picture of him with a hole in his face released by the US government. I have to admit I also kind of liked the somewhat perverse idea of photos of him shaved bare and naked.

Edited May 2, 2011 by Azazello1313

[Ursa Majoris]

Just saw this on Yahoo - haven't even finished reading it yet but it's all about the US unit that nailed him.

 

From Ghazi Air Base in Pakistan, the modified MH-60 helicopters made their way to the garrison suburb of Abbottabad, about 30 miles from the center of Islamabad. Aboard were Navy SEALs, flown across the border from Afghanistan, along with tactical signals, intelligence collectors, and navigators using highly classified hyperspectral imagers.

 

After bursts of fire over 40 minutes, 22 people were killed or captured. One of the dead was Osama bin Laden, done in by a double tap -- boom, boom -- to the left side of his face. His body was aboard the choppers that made the trip back. One had experienced mechanical failure and was destroyed by U.S. forces, military and White House officials tell National Journal.

 

Were it not for this high-value target, it might have been a routine mission for the specially trained and highly mythologized SEAL Team Six, officially called the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, but known even to the locals at their home base Dam Neck in Virginia as just DevGru.

 

This HVT was special, and the raids required practice, so they replicated the one-acre compound at Camp Alpha, a segregated section of Bagram Air Base. Trial runs were held in early April.

 

DevGru belongs to the Joint Special Operations Command, an extraordinary and unusual collection of classified standing task forces and special-missions units. They report to the president and operate worldwide based on the legal (or extra-legal) premises of classified presidential directives. Though the general public knows about the special SEALs and their brothers in Delta Force, most JSOC missions never leak. We only hear about JSOC when something goes bad (a British aid worker is accidentally killed) or when something really big happens (a merchant marine captain is rescued at sea), and even then, the military remains especially sensitive about their existence. Several dozen JSOC operatives have died in Pakistan over the past several years. Their names are released by the Defense Department in the usual manner, but with a cover story -- generally, they were killed in training accidents in eastern Afghanistan. That's the code.

 

How did the helos elude the Pakistani air defense network? Did they spoof transponder codes? Were they painted and tricked out with Pakistan Air Force equipment? If so -- and we may never know -- two other JSOC units, the Technical Application Programs Office and the Aviation Technology Evaluation Group, were responsible. These truly are the silent squirrels -- never getting public credit and not caring one whit. Since 9/11, the JSOC units and their task forces have become the U.S. government's most effective and lethal weapon against terrorists and their networks, drawing plenty of unwanted, and occasionally unflattering, attention to themselves in the process.

 

JSOC costs the country more than $1 billion annually. The command has its critics, but it has escaped significant congressional scrutiny and has operated largely with impunity since 9/11. Some of its interrogators and operators were involved in torture and rendition, and the line between its intelligence-gathering activities and the CIA's has been blurred.

 

But Sunday's operation provides strong evidence that the CIA and JSOC work well together. Sometimes intelligence needs to be developed rapidly, to get inside the enemy's operational loop. And sometimes it needs to be cultivated, grown as if it were delicate bacteria in a petri dish.

 

In an interview at CIA headquarters two weeks ago, a senior intelligence official said the two proud groups of American secret warriors had been "deconflicted and basically integrated" -- finally -- 10 years after 9/11. Indeed, according to accounts given to journalists by five senior administration officials Sunday night, the CIA gathered the intelligence that led to bin Laden's location. A memo from CIA Director Leon Panetta sent Sunday night provides some hints of how the information was collected and analyzed. In it, he thanked the National Security Agency and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency for their help. NSA figured out, somehow, that there was no telephone or Internet service in the compound. How it did this without Pakistan's knowledge is a secret. The NGIA makes the military's maps but also develops their pattern recognition software -- no doubt used to help establish, by February of this year, that the CIA could say with "high probability" that bin Laden and his family were living there.

 

Recently, JSOC built a new Targeting and Analysis Center in Rosslyn, Va. Where the NationalCounterterrorism Center tends to focus on threats to the homeland, TAAC, whose existence was first disclosed by the Associated Press, focuses outward, on active "kinetic" -- or lethal -- counterterrorismmissions abroad. Its creation surprised the NCTC's director, Michael Leiter, who was suspicious about its intent until he visited.

 

That the center could be stood up under the nose of some of the nation's most senior intelligence officials without their full knowledge testifies to the power and reach of JSOC, whose size has tripled since 9/11. The command now includes more than 4,000 soldiers and civilians. It has its own intelligence division, which may or may not have been involved in last night's effort, and has gobbled up a number of free-floating Defense Department entities that allowed it to rapidly acquire, test, and field new technologies.

 

Under a variety of standing orders, JSOC is involved in more than 50 current operations spanning a dozen countries, and its units, supported by so-called "white," or acknowledged, special operations entities like Rangers, Special Forces battalions, SEAL teams, and Air Force special ops units from the larger Special Operations Command, are responsible for most of the "kinetic" action in Afghanistan.

 

Pentagon officials are conscious of the enormous stress that 10 years of war have placed on the command. JSOC resources are heavily taxed by the operational tempo in Afghanistan and Pakistan, officials have said. The current commander, Vice Adm. William McRaven, and Maj. Gen. Joseph Votel,McRaven's nominated replacement, have been pushing to add people and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance technology to areas outside the war theater where al-Qaida and its affiliates continue to thrive.

 

Earlier this year, it seemed that the elite units would face the same budget pressures that the entire military was experiencing. Not anymore. The military found a way, largely by reducing contracting staff and borrowing others from the Special Operations Command, to add 50 positions to JSOC. AndVotel wants to add several squadrons to the "Tier One" units -- Delta and the SEALs.

 

When Gen. Stanley McChrystal became JSOC's commanding general in 2004, he and his intelligence chief, Maj. Gen. Michael Flynn, set about transforming the way the subordinate units analyze and act on intelligence. Insurgents in Iraq were exploiting the slow decision loop that coalition commanders used, and enhanced interrogation techniques were frowned upon after the Abu Ghraib scandal. But the hunger for actionable tactical intelligence on insurgents was palpable.

 

The way JSOC solved this problem remains a carefully guarded secret, but people familiar with the unit suggest that McChrystal and Flynn introduced hardened commandos to basic criminal forensic techniques and then used highly advanced and still-classified technology to transform bits of information into actionable intelligence. One way they did this was to create forward-deployed fusion cells, where JSOC units were paired with intelligence analysts from the NSA and the NGA. Such analysis helped the CIA to establish, with a high degree of probability, that Osama bin Laden and his family were hiding in that particular compound.

 

These technicians could "exploit and analyze" data obtained from the battlefield instantly, using their access to the government's various biometric, facial-recognition, and voice-print databases. These cells also used highly advanced surveillance technology and computer-based pattern analysis to layer predictive models of insurgent behavior onto real-time observations.

 

The military has begun to incorporate these techniques across the services. And Flynn will soon be promoted to a job within the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, where he'll be tasked with transforming the way intelligence is gathered, analyzed, and utilized.

[Pope Flick]

I disagree completely. Making bodies disappear without trace is exactly what was done post-Nuremberg. Does Yon think public display of the body wouldn't be seen as gloating and further inflame Bin Laden's sympathizers?

 

 

 

Yeah, this is actually the important thing left. Retaliation fears aside, and f them they wouldve done something anyways, the decision whether or not to release a pic of him is all that's left. I tend to think if you're worried about 'myth' then you DON'T release the photo as it would make him a martyr. I kinda like the 'he got grabbed and was never seen again' finale to the whole thing.

 

Let's face it, we shot up a small town in Pakistan and made the announcement. Nothing left to prove. If it would been in some cave in some remote spot producing a body might be our only route to proof. But a burning mansion next door to some retired Pakistan general is what we have now. And that's plenty.

[Azazello1313]

JSOC costs the country more than $1 billion annually..

 

let's just all agree right now that this is one budget line-item which should not be touched

Edited May 2, 2011 by Azazello1313

[Gopher]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist in the least, but I have to admit that any time the president (not just Obama, but any president) announces anything of importance, I become somewhat skeptical. Not skeptical in the sense that I don't believe it to be true (I'm 99% sure OBL is dead), but simply wondering what piece(s) of information was/were left out. After all, has there ever been such an announcement where we were given all of the facts, right from the start? It's impossible to say, with 100% certainty, but I can think of far more instances where only half the story was told, compared to times where I felt everything was crystal clear, right from the start. It's not a Democrat thing, and it's not a Republican thing... the bottom line is that govenment figures lie when it's convenient to do so. Sometimes, they do it by twisting the truth, sometimes they do it by leaving certain details out, and sometimes they flat out make chit up, if that's what it takes. Anybody who doesn't think that happens is pretty naive.

 

So, like I said, I'm not doubting that the guy is dead, but I'm interested to hear what more comes out of the story. Maybe nothing... who knows. But, that wouldn't necessarily mean there ISN"T more to the story. In other words, what if (for example) Osama had taken his own life, knowing that the end was near? Would it be so far from the realm of possibilities to think that maybe the govenment/military decided the story would be more appealing if that fact was left out? I don't think so at all, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time that a military event was "recreated" to appease the public (Tillman, for example). I would not be surprised in the slightest to find out that OBL put a bullet in his own head (not that we'll ever know, if that WAS the case). All I'm saying is that it is very likely that there is more than meets the eye, basically.

 

As far as him being killed in general, I'm as relieved to hear about it as anybody, just because of the fact that he's a worthless scumbag, essentially. But, at the end of the day, does his death really have that much of an impact, in the grand scheme of things? Not really, in my opinion. He's nothing more than a 70-something figure head. Doesn't change whether or not Al Qaeda still exists, doesn't change the fact that terrorism still exists, and certainly doesn't change what happened in 2001. If anything (as others have suggested), it might just make it all that much more likely that there will be another attack on U.S. soil in the near future. That doesn't mean it was in our best interest to NOT kill Bin Laden, but it is what it is. If we want to play the role of the country that nobody wants to mess with, because we'll always seek and destroy anybody who does, we then need to be prepared to always have a target on our backs, as well.

 

One thing that keeps lingering in the back of my mind... If I read correctly, the body was somehow confirmed through DNA. This may be a very stupid question, but how exactly did we manage to get DNA samples from a guy that it took us 10 years to find? If there is something I missed, as to how we have Osama's DNA readily available?

 

Edited to change "Obama" to Osama" .

Edited May 3, 2011 by Gopher

[Ursa Majoris]

Yeah, this is actually the important thing left. Retaliation fears aside, and f them they wouldve done something anyways, the decision whether or not to release a pic of him is all that's left. I tend to think if you're worried about 'myth' then you DON'T release the photo as it would make him a martyr. I kinda like the 'he got grabbed and was never seen again' finale to the whole thing.

 

Let's face it, we shot up a small town in Pakistan and made the announcement. Nothing left to prove. If it would been in some cave in some remote spot producing a body might be our only route to proof. But a burning mansion next door to some retired Pakistan general is what we have now. And that's plenty.

Other than trying to satisfy the conspiracy nuts who will automatically claim the photos are Photoshopped anyway (and for all you conspiracy nuts out there, if the cap fits, wear it) there is no real point in displaying photos, certainly not immediately.

[Ursa Majoris]

let's just all agree right now that this is one budget line-item which should not be touched

Was going to post exactly that. IMO, this is where the money should have been funneled from the get-go - intelligence and surgical strike capability. Way more bang for the buck.

[rattsass]

I will celebrate with you all today, but I still want that video. Just for kicks.

[Pope Flick]

Other than trying to satisfy the conspiracy nuts who will automatically claim the photos are Photoshopped anyway (and for all you conspiracy nuts out there, if the cap fits, wear it) there is no real point in displaying photos, certainly not immediately.

 

 

Yeah, in Saddam's case he had brutalized that country for so long it was necessary for closure in that particular case. I don't see the same need here. In fact, the #1 thing right now is to nail Zawhiri (hopefully from intel grabbed last night) and keep rolling.

[JoJoTheWebToedBoy]

Did the Govt. lie about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman? Nuff said.

 

Different President, Different Administration.....

[Furd]

I declare that you are an idiot if you think that this was faked or if you think that the timing of the annoucement had anything to do with Trump.

 

A complete idiot.

 

After 10 years, the American people were, by and large, resigned that we wouldn't catch Bin Laden. It certainly wasn't a hot button topic. Obama was being hurt in the least with Bin Laden on the loose. And Trump is a total ass clown who nobody takes seriously and who most definitely is not going to run for president.

 

The timing has no significance.

 

If faked, this would have to be ranked as the biggest fraud perpertrated on the American people. Something that could be easily proven as a fraud given the number of people that would have knowledge of the operation. There are going to be many internal inquiries as to what happened with interviews of the actors involved. Facts will become known.

 

With so much to lose and so little to gain, there is no reason for Obama to fake this. None.

 

And for you "I want to see the body" people, don't you think that it would be extremely easy to create a dummy or prosthetic device that convincingly resembled Bin Laden?

[SayItAintSoJoe]

One thing that keeps lingering in the back of my mind... If I read correctly, the body was somehow confirmed through DNA. This may be a very stupid question, but how exactly did we manage to get DNA samples from a guy that it took us 10 years to find? If there is something I missed, as to how we have Osama's DNA readily available?

 

Edited to change "Obama" to Osama" .

 

Sister's brain tissue. She died of cancer and the FBI made sure to get the necessary samples.

Edited May 2, 2011 by SayItAintSoJoe

[Gopher]

As for demanding photos, I'm not sure what that would necessarily accomplish. There would be no way to say, with 100% certainty, that they were legitimate, and more than likely, all they would accomplish would be adding more fuel to the fire of his followers.

[whomper]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist in the least, but I have to admit that any time the president (not just Obama, but any president) announces anything of importance, I become somewhat skeptical. Not skeptical in the sense that I don't believe it to be true (I'm 99% sure OBL is dead), but simply wondering what piece(s) of information was/were left out. After all, has there ever been such an announcement where we were given all of the facts, right from the start? It's impossible to say, with 100% certainty, but I can think of far more instances where only half the story was told, compared to times where I felt everything was crystal clear, right from the start. It's not a Democrat thing, and it's not a Republican thing... the bottom line is that govenment figures lie when it's convenient to do so. Sometimes, they do it by twisting the truth, sometimes they do it by leaving certain details out, and sometimes they flat out make chit up, if that's what it takes. Anybody who doesn't think that happens is pretty naive.

 

So, like I said, I'm not doubting that the guy is dead, but I'm interested to hear what more comes out of the story. Maybe nothing... who knows. But, that wouldn't necessarily mean there ISN"T more to the story. In other words, what if (for example) Osama had taken his own life, knowing that the end was near? Would it be so far from the realm of possibilities to think that maybe the govenment/military decided the story would be more appealing if that fact was left out? I don't think so at all, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time that a military event was "recreated" to appease the public (Tillman, for example). I would not be surprised in the slightest to find out that OBL put a bullet in his own head (not that we'll ever know, if that WAS the case). All I'm saying is that it is very likely that there is more than meets the eye, basically.

 

As far as him being killed in general, I'm as relieved to hear about it as anybody, just because of the fact that he's a worthless scumbag, essentially. But, at the end of the day, does his death really have that much of an impact, in the grand scheme of things? Not really, in my opinion. He's nothing more than a 70-something figure head. Doesn't change whether or not the Taliban still exists, doesn't change the fact that terrorism still exists, and certainly doesn't change what happened in 2001. If anything (as others have suggested), it might just make it all that much more likely that there will be another attack on U.S. soil in the near future. That doesn't mean it was in our best interest to NOT kill Bin Laden, but it is what it is. If we want to play the role of the country that nobody wants to mess with, because we'll always seek and destroy anybody who does, we then need to be prepared to always have a target on our backs, as well.

 

One thing that keeps lingering in the back of my mind... If I read correctly, the body was somehow confirmed through DNA. This may be a very stupid question, but how exactly did we manage to get DNA samples from a guy that it took us 10 years to find? If there is something I missed, as to how we have Osama's DNA readily available?

 

Edited to change "Obama" to Osama" .

 

 

They got his DNA from his sister who was living in Boston

[Gopher]

Sister's brain tissue. She died of cancer and the FBI made sure to get the necessary samples.

Wasn't aware of that... Thanks. I figured it had to be something of the sort.

[Gopher]

They got his DNA from his sister who was living in Boston

Thanks. Maybe that's why there always seems to be more than what initially appears, in my opinion... I tend to skim over things and not read the details/fine print.

[rattsass]

All you have to do is raise a few questions to bear the wrath. I think we deserve to see that bastard blown to bits. If you don't then that is your opinion. No we shouldn't have sent it on a whistle-stop tour of America, but I think we deserve more than we have got so far. Based on all I have heard the prick has few supporters left anywhere on this big blue marble. If we are worried more about that handful of individuals than we who lost so much because of this individual then that is your right I guess.

[MikesVikes]

Brian Williams reported before the speech that this was leaked a little earlier last night to NYPD & NYFD who drove around with lights on sirens off

 

Nice.

[Furd]

They got his DNA from his sister who was living in Boston

 

Are they identical twins?

[whomper]

I still stand behind my statement. we will see the pics. I fell asleep last night about 9:30 and didnt hear the news . I got up Today and in my short ride to our bus station I heard Howard Stern say Osama was dead. Put on 1010 wins to confirm. I thought of the huddle asap and figured I would see a lot more and than I would see "i want to see the body' . It isnt just the huddle. I see it from my FB friends as well. Those opposed to Obama want to see the body. I actually had one friend on there go so far as to say "Thank you George Bush for starting the hunt for Obama, its because of you that we got him" When I heard on wins the seals went in and lit Osamas tits up my testosterone level went through the roof. we finally got this piece of shit . It was momentary fun feeling knowing the wave of politcizing was on its way. Osma Bin Laden is dead. if you are anything less than ecstatic you should be punched in the nuts

Edited May 2, 2011 by whomper