Spanking your kid is a crime

[yo mama]

I'm curious about your stand on partial birth abortion.

 

 

 

 

 

Me, as I childIi was spanked, with a belt. The question was whether it was to be the strap end only, or the buckle end. I held hate in my heart at those moments, not for my actions which were being punished, but to my punisher.

 

I have never spanked as a parent. I did reserve to myself the right to do so, but never exercised that right.

 

I have wanted to spank the spoiled rotten bratty children of others. I have also wanted to spank those who allowed therir kids to become overindulged brats with no respect for their elders.

Wow, that was out of left field. I guess my opinion is that partial birth abortions (i.e., abortions after the first trimester) are generally illegal, and thus used only in exceptional circumstances. I suppose I support that framework. *Not* that I want this abortion of a thread to degenerate any further in to a debate about actual abortion.

Edited June 23, 2011 by yo mama

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Wow, that was out of left field. I guess my opinion is that partial birth abortions (i.e., abortions after the first trimester) are generally illegal, and thus used only in exceptional circumstances. I suppose I support that framework. *Not* that I want this abortion of a thread to degenerate any further in to a debate about actual abortion.

 

 

So it is wrong to spank a child always, but it is occassionally ok to stick a scissors into the soft skull of a child seconds before that child fully clears the birth canal? The latter is probably ok because their are "exceptional circumstances". I wonder if in child rearing there are occassional "exceptional circumstances" where you might recognize a parents right to spank.

[yo mama]

 

Interesting question that brings up a lot of thoughts for me personally. Allow me to share if you will.

 

I grew up getting the occasional smack in the ass. I think the end result was me having a slight fear of my father. I never hated him, because any time I got a smack in the ass, it was well deserved. I think being a little scared of authority as a young child is not a bad thing. I don't know you, I don't know your kids. If they are well behaved and respect their elders and have never gotten a smack in the ass, then good for you. However, the end result or goal (at least in my opinion) is having respectful, well adjusted children. I certainly don't want my kids to hate me, but I also think they need to understand and respect authority, and in my opinion, an occasional smack helps enforce that. I know this doesn't necessarily answer your question, but hopefully provides some insight to my line of thinking.

Precisely. I think all parents have the same goals - this is a difference of opinion on how best to achieve them. It is merely my opinion that those goals are achievable without spanking. If I can use a motivation other than fear of being hit, I'd prefer to go that route. Call me lucky. Blame it on superior genetics. Whatever. It's not that the thought hasn't crossed my mind a hundred times, its just that I've been conditioned to believe that there is always a non-violent alternative. So far, so good.

 

For me, I only got spanked once as a kid (and I sure as hell deserved it). I think people grow up defining "normal" by referenced to how they themselves were raised. So when I look to discipline my kids I naturally resort to the methods I know first hand. That's probably true for most people, which is probably why corporeal punishment appalls me.

Edited June 23, 2011 by yo mama

[yo mama]

So it is wrong to spank a child always, but it is occassionally ok to stick a scissors into the soft skull of a child seconds before that child fully clears the birth canal? The latter is probably ok because their are "exceptional circumstances". I wonder if in child rearing there are occassional "exceptional circumstances" where you might recognize a parents right to spank.

Yeah, I figured you were trying to trap me in contradiction of logic.

 

It is my understanding that partial birth abortions are reserved for exceptional circumstances, like saving mom's life. If someone needs to hit a child to save mom's life, then I guess I'm cool with that.

[Hugh B Tool]

 

This thread got me thinkin' that my woman hasn't had a good spanking in a while

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Yeah, I figured you were trying to trap me in contradiction of logic.

 

It is my understanding that partial birth abortions are reserved for exceptional circumstances, like saving mom's life. If someone needs to hit a child to save mom's life, then I guess I'm cool with that.

 

 

Not so much trap as to understand. (My traps are rarely so clumsy) Myself, I have philosophies, but they often break down or are apparently inconsistent when pushed to extremes that may even be artificial at times. My sophistry is to not consider them contradictions so much as paradoxes with which I am comfortable. Recognizing my own hypocracies I try not to be didactic on matters, though I know I often am.

 

Go in peace.

Edited June 23, 2011 by Ditkaless Wonders

[Azazello1313]

so....after much deliberation, we fairly recently decided to incorporate the occasional swat on the ass with my 3.5 year old. she is a smart and thoughtful kid, but certainly a bit "strong-willed". we were finding that time-outs and all that love-and-logic "consequences" stuff kinda-sorta works...for example, she would always be better-behaved after a timeout, but the threat of it didn't really deter her behavior beforehand. we decided it wasn't really enough to basically be able to corral her bad behavior into less obnoxious outlets. we decided we needed her to simply and immediately respect us when we tell her not to do something. so we decided acts of defiant, willful disobedience will be met with a spanking. no raised voice, no anger, and spending several minutes afterward talking about it. also, the severity of the offense is not a factor in whether she is spanked. if she carelessly runs by and steps on her baby brother even in a way that could really hurt him, that is not a spanking offense. however, if she says she wants another piece of candy and I say no she can't have one and she goes to get one anyway, that results in a spank. the goal is to get her to respect and listen to what we tell her.

 

the results, I must say, have been pretty great. it was effective almost immediately. she does not fear us. by the time she is 6 or so, I think she will be rational enough that other consequences will be just as effective. right now, you'd have a hard time convincing me anything else would work as well.

 

I can see why the anti-spanking crowd feels the way it does. the line between effective discipline and fear-inducing violence can be a thin one. it is very often something that is done out of laziness and anger. but I feel like we know what we are doing on this one.

[Ditkaless Wonders]

so....after much deliberation, we fairly recently decided to incorporate the occasional swat on the ass with my 3.5 year old. she is a smart and thoughtful kid, but certainly a bit "strong-willed". we were finding that time-outs and all that love-and-logic "consequences" stuff kinda-sorta works...for example, she would always be better-behaved after a timeout, but the threat of it didn't really deter her behavior beforehand. we decided it wasn't really enough to basically be able to corral her bad behavior into less obnoxious outlets. we decided we needed her to simply and immediately respect us when we tell her not to do something. so we decided acts of defiant, willful disobedience will be met with a spanking. no raised voice, no anger, and spending several minutes afterward talking about it. also, the severity of the offense is not a factor in whether she is spanked. if she carelessly runs by and steps on her baby brother even in a way that could really hurt him, that is not a spanking offense. however, if she says she wants another piece of candy and I say no she can't have one and she goes to get one anyway, that results in a spank. the goal is to get her to respect and listen to what we tell her.

 

the results, I must say, have been pretty great. it was effective almost immediately. she does not fear us. by the time she is 6 or so, I think she will be rational enough that other consequences will be just as effective. right now, you'd have a hard time convincing me anything else would work as well.

 

I can see why the anti-spanking crowd feels the way it does. the line between effective discipline and fear-inducing violence can be a thin one. it is very often something that is done out of laziness and anger. but I feel like we know what we are doing on this one.

 

 

So you feel that loving parents with the child's best interest at heart are in a position to make a more informed call on raising their children than is the State?

 

What about the fact that some parents are not emotionally equiped to make the right call here? Shouldn't the State prevent abuse even if that means prohibiting the access to valuable tools to those who would use them responsibily? After all the persons targeted will certainly respect the law and think about the consequences of their illegal actions and therefore be deterred, won't they? Certainly the responsible can be burdened with the prohibition of access to a tool they could use responsibly under those circumstances, after all, all they would have to do is expend greater effort and resources to accomplish the goal through another means. Is it really a burden for the State to demand of the responsible that they are required to accept a burden on behalf of the irresponsible? Certainly you could bear another burden as long as you know it was imposed by the well intentioned, who seem only to want ever greater dominion over the actions of others? Are we not our brothers keepers, and shouldn't the well intentioned who feel things deeply, and who are therefore on the moral high ground, actually, by that standing ,be permitted, even expected to exercise responsible dominion over others?

 

 

Wait...what....ignore that. After all it was not in any way meant for you.

[SuperBalla]

Pretty much the way I handle my kids as well. If they don't listen they may get a smack in the ass to get their attention. It doesn't happen often. I have never used an object other then an open hand to smack them. It's really more of an attention getter then anything else.

 

 

Same here. I take offense though for being called "lazy" because I choose to open hand swat my kids butt if they are wrong beyond what I feel a verbal correction constitutes. I don't hold anything against my parents now looking back at the a$$ beats I got. I was spanked several times in Middle and Junior High too, thankfully. I toast you that have managed to "not" spank, but I don't see a problem with those that do. I assure you, not all children are alike. My boy is 5, heckuva athlete and can play chess...but requires, very rarely, discipline. Usually, it is swift, attention getting swats with an immediate verbal correction followed by the way to do things better.

 

What is the best way to discipline a child ...timeouts?

[SuperBalla]

so....after much deliberation, we fairly recently decided to incorporate the occasional swat on the ass with my 3.5 year old. she is a smart and thoughtful kid, but certainly a bit "strong-willed". we were finding that time-outs and all that love-and-logic "consequences" stuff kinda-sorta works...for example, she would always be better-behaved after a timeout, but the threat of it didn't really deter her behavior beforehand. we decided it wasn't really enough to basically be able to corral her bad behavior into less obnoxious outlets. we decided we needed her to simply and immediately respect us when we tell her not to do something. so we decided acts of defiant, willful disobedience will be met with a spanking. no raised voice, no anger, and spending several minutes afterward talking about it. also, the severity of the offense is not a factor in whether she is spanked. if she carelessly runs by and steps on her baby brother even in a way that could really hurt him, that is not a spanking offense. however, if she says she wants another piece of candy and I say no she can't have one and she goes to get one anyway, that results in a spank. the goal is to get her to respect and listen to what we tell her.

 

the results, I must say, have been pretty great. it was effective almost immediately. she does not fear us. by the time she is 6 or so, I think she will be rational enough that other consequences will be just as effective. right now, you'd have a hard time convincing me anything else would work as well.

 

I can see why the anti-spanking crowd feels the way it does. the line between effective discipline and fear-inducing violence can be a thin one. it is very often something that is done out of laziness and anger. but I feel like we know what we are doing on this one.

 

 

The other night my son was obviously tired and I could tell was having a melt down because he was mentally tired and couldn't control his emotions. Whined, etc about brushing teeth, bed, pj's...everything. I recognize those situations, and let's say I give him some leeway. However, I look at it like this...I tell Wyatt to stop throwing the ball in the living room, and I know he hears me. However he decides to toss it once more, as soon as I see him do it I immediately grab him and we go to timeout. If he remains defiant and is testing us I will spank and it is back to timeout with something going in timeout too, ball, costume, etc. We are relentless in not allowing them to choose to not listen the first time. More times than not...they do listen the first time. I had a long talk with Wyatt the other night after a defiant evening and really there aren't many, he is an incredible kid. I explained to him:

 

"To Daddy and Mommy we know how important it is to listen the first time. What if Wyatt chased a ball into the street and Daddy/Mommy yells Stop Wyatt, and he doesn't listen the first time and something bad happens? That is why we are so hard on you when you don't listen the first time" He cried and hugged me and said he wants to do a better job and I know it upsets him when he doesn't live up to our standard, which is good. I definately think communication at all ages is huge in the success in breaking them...they are somewhat naive and wild, and need to be taught. That is our job in any "lovebacked" format.

 

If it comes from Love, genuine love it can't be bad. Becareful though, if you had a shatty day you will have a short fuse, and should lean on the other parent to discipline. Manage your attitude.

Edited June 23, 2011 by SuperBalla

[Azazello1313]

Shouldn't the State prevent abuse even if that means prohibiting the access to valuable tools to those who would use them responsibily?

 

I understand the question is rhetorical, but my opinion is that the more the state tries to dictate what it means to be a good parent, the more people will be crappy parents.

[yo mama]

so....after much deliberation, we fairly recently decided to incorporate the occasional swat on the ass with my 3.5 year old. she is a smart and thoughtful kid, but certainly a bit "strong-willed". we were finding that time-outs and all that love-and-logic "consequences" stuff kinda-sorta works...for example, she would always be better-behaved after a timeout, but the threat of it didn't really deter her behavior beforehand. we decided it wasn't really enough to basically be able to corral her bad behavior into less obnoxious outlets. we decided we needed her to simply and immediately respect us when we tell her not to do something. so we decided acts of defiant, willful disobedience will be met with a spanking. no raised voice, no anger, and spending several minutes afterward talking about it. also, the severity of the offense is not a factor in whether she is spanked. if she carelessly runs by and steps on her baby brother even in a way that could really hurt him, that is not a spanking offense. however, if she says she wants another piece of candy and I say no she can't have one and she goes to get one anyway, that results in a spank. the goal is to get her to respect and listen to what we tell her.

 

the results, I must say, have been pretty great. it was effective almost immediately. she does not fear us. by the time she is 6 or so, I think she will be rational enough that other consequences will be just as effective. right now, you'd have a hard time convincing me anything else would work as well.

 

I can see why the anti-spanking crowd feels the way it does. the line between effective discipline and fear-inducing violence can be a thin one. it is very often something that is done out of laziness and anger. but I feel like we know what we are doing on this one.

3-1/2 is a tough age. They're not old enough to listen to reason, but they are old enough to do damage. I spent more than a few nights steeped in frustrated desperation trying to figure out what I thought the "right" thing to do was. It gets better. Then it gets worse. Then they move out.

[yo mama]

Not so much trap as to understand. (My traps are rarely so clumsy) Myself, I have philosophies, but they often break down or are apparently inconsistent when pushed to extremes that may even be artificial at times. My sophistry is to not consider them contradictions so much as paradoxes with which I am comfortable. Recognizing my own hypocracies I try not to be didactic on matters, though I know I often am.

 

Go in peace.

I feel that this has brought us closer together, and I have a more meaningful understanding of who you are. Hug?

[yo mama]

Same here. I take offense though for being called "lazy" because I choose to open hand swat my kids butt if they are wrong beyond what I feel a verbal correction constitutes. I don't hold anything against my parents now looking back at the a$$ beats I got. I was spanked several times in Middle and Junior High too, thankfully. I toast you that have managed to "not" spank, but I don't see a problem with those that do. I assure you, not all children are alike. My boy is 5, heckuva athlete and can play chess...but requires, very rarely, discipline. Usually, it is swift, attention getting swats with an immediate verbal correction followed by the way to do things better.

 

What is the best way to discipline a child ...timeouts?

Just so we're clear, it is my opinion that spanking is an ACT of lazy parenting. All of us - me, you, chicks named Whitney - have ALL had moments of parenting weakness that we look back up with regret. I'm not pretending like my SHAM WOW!e don't stink in that regard. It's just that I think if you can slow down for a moment, and take a breath, any loving parent is capable of resolving 99.9999% of situations with their kids without resorting to hitting of any kind. There is a distinction between a lazy act and a lazy parent, and I hope that's not lost on folks.

Edited June 23, 2011 by yo mama

[yo mama]

I understand the question is rhetorical, but my opinion is that the more the state tries to dictate what it means to be a good parent, the more people will be crappy parents.

Or perhaps a frightening number of people are just crappy parents, which is merely highlighted whenever the state tries to raise the bar. I'm sure that's always been true, and is unlikely to change.

Edited June 23, 2011 by yo mama

[SEC=UGA]

how old is your boy?

 

cuz my 3yo son thinks it's fookin' funny to run faster when we yell "stop". Knowing my son, I won't let him get between me and the street, but I'm having trouble getting through to him on the consequences of a two-ton car. My bro-in-law said to get a grapefruit and smash it on the ground telling my boy that's his head meeting a moving car. I'm not 100% sold on that, but I'll probalby go buy some fruit and give it a try.

 

Stop breeding.

[Hugh 0ne]

how old is your boy?

 

Really?

 

My boy is 5

[whomper]

Look deeper into the issue of a misbehaved child and sometimes you will realize that part of the problem is you as the parent. My kids are absolute Angels in school. The teachers say they never ever give them discipline problems. When they are out with other kids on play dates etc. we rarely get a report of very bad behavior from a parent yet when they are home, especially my little one, their horns come out.

 

I have girls so I dont whack them. If I had boys I probably would. Caveman rationalle ? Probably but so be it. The biggest problem in my house is the non united front between me and my wife. I am by no means the perfect parent . I have a bad temper and a short fuse. I honestly do think the problem with the non united front though lies with my wife. She is more interested in being their best friend than an authority figure and as they are getting older they have no "fear " of her and since she is with them a lot more than me , she is their main disciplinarian in our house. Truth be told I wish my wife would whack them once in a while. I am not talking pops in the grill brentastic style, I am talking of the backhand get your attention on the butt style. My wife will never do it. I have been telling her for years that she needs to firm up because the kids have no fear of her and dont see her as an authority figure. They see me as that . I am "the heavy" in my house.

 

Last night is a perfect example. 2:30 in the morning chaos is ensuing in their room. One of them woke up and got spooked and woke up the other one. the other one got mad then they both got mad at my wife because she was exhausted and didnt want to deal with this fight. I just got to bed at 12:30 and I have to get up at 6. Im listening to this and my blood is absolutely boiling. I can hear my wife warning them that they are going to wake me up and they will be sorry. I tried to wait it out. wasnt happening. I went in that room like a pitbull on steroids. they nearly shit themselves but they all shut the hell up and the fight was over.

 

My kids fear their teachers more than my wife and to me that is sad. I hate to use the word fear because we arent necessarily looking for absolute fear but when we tell my kids that we are going to tell their teacher about something bad they did that pertains to school, they get petrified and beg us not to tell. If a teacher were to tell my kid they were going to tell my wife about something bad they did they would probably in their heads be thinking meh go ahead the day will probably end with me getting ice cream and and I tunes gift card.

 

Smack your kids people. Smack them for me . Smack them often. Smack one for the old whomper

Edited June 23, 2011 by whomper

[Hugh 0ne]

If a teacher were to tell my kid they were going to tell my wife about something bad they did they would probably in their heads be thinking meh go ahead the day will probably end with me getting ice cream and and I tunes gift card.

 

Lofl. Classic.

[untateve]

I was spanked often as a child, with a belt by my mother and by my father's hand. I remember what that was like.

 

I have never encountered the situation where I felt the need to spank my child. Never. Of course, I don't give a schit what people think of me. My kids have been in time out in the grocery store, in a movie theater, at a park, at friend's homes, etc. Whenever and where ever they have behaved inappropriately, the consequences have been applied.

 

My kids have told me that I am a "harsh" father and their friends get away with much more and get to do much more. Maybe so. My kids mow the lawn, sweep and mop the floors, clean the pool, do the dishes, clean their rooms and their bathroom, and take out the trash. They don't get an allowance for these activities because being part of a family means contributing to the family. When they want money, I find them a special task to earn it.

 

My children (ages 11 and 14) can still be a pain in the ass. But I've always received glowing reports from other parents about my children. They've never received a behavior referral at school although I've been called by a teacher when because my younger son is sometimes, shall we say, over-talkative.

 

Is is lazy parenting to hit your children and be done with it? I don't know. I know that my way takes a whole hell of a lot of work. But in the end, I never want my children to feel about me the way I've felt about my parents.

[Azazello1313]

Just so we're clear, it is my opinion that spanking is an ACT of lazy parenting. All of us - me, you, chicks named Whitney - have ALL had moments of parenting weakness that we look back up with regret.

 

yeah and I'm about as certain as I can be that the couple times I've swatted my daughter on the ass are not going to be among those moments. my wife and I have thought through this about as much as we can, and the decision we came to was not out of frustration or laziness. I, however, am not going to cast stones at someone who comes to a different conclusion.

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

I prefer to verbally abuse my children over physical abuse.

[Square]

I prefer to verbally abuse my children over physical abuse.

And NOW we are getting somewhere.

[peepinmofo]

I think the words some are using are a bit much. Abuse? Violence? Hitting? We are talkking about SPANKING a child on the butt. Not slapping. Not striking (another word which was used). Not abusing. SPANKING. That said, I commend those that are so totally awesome at parenting that they dont feel they need to discipline their child in the same manner as me. But lets not get out of hand here. No one is talking about beating a child to a bloody pulp. No one is talking about spanking so hard that a hand print is left for hours/days (at least not since the whole debate came up. I know what the original link was about).

 

If we are talking about those things, then yes, I too am against beating, abusing, clubbing, and kicking a child.

[bpwallace49]

This thread got me thinkin' that my woman hasn't had a good spanking in a while

 

+1 . . . I will be happy to take of that tonight for ya.