geeteebee Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have a shower that isn't functioning correctly. It has a single handle that rotates counter clockwise to increase water temp. There is a pull knob underneath the handle that activates the diverter to change the water from the tub to the shower. When the water is at a low temp, I can pull the knob and the shower works fine. However, if I increase the water temp by rotating the handle, the pressure drops and the diverter no longer functions. There is still decent water pressure but not enough to keep the diverter engaged. Any ideas on how to fix this? Faulty diverter? Any way to get more water pressure? I have 4 other showers that work fine and they all have the same/similar hardware. Any help is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You have 4 other showers???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Gotta be something with your hot water heater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Gotta be something with your hot water heater. Why would affect this one but not the others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sounds like the diverter is wearing out. You can actually unscrew the tub spout and replace it with a new one. You typically do not need to turn the water off for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Why would affect this one but not the others? Good point. Next time I'll actually read the entier post before responding. Probably the diverter, depending on the unit you might be able to fix it as opposed to having to replace it. ETA: Yeah, what CD said. Edited January 25, 2012 by Hugh 0ne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 A little help: http://www.homeimprovementsdepot.com/how-t...diverter-valve/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 its the phitzer valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby's Hubby Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) its the phitzer valve. gonna need some gauze pads and a set of ball bearings with a quart of quaker state, no better make that penzoil come on, looks like you guys need a refresher course. Edited January 25, 2012 by Scooby's Hubby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sounds like the diverter is wearing out. You can actually unscrew the tub spout and replace it with a new one. You typically do not need to turn the water off for this. This shower is rarely used and has probably only been used 50 times total. Is it possible that the diverter is installed incorrectly or needs adjustment? I just find it hard to believe it has gone bad after such little use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 This shower is rarely used and has probably only been used 50 times total. Is it possible that the diverter is installed incorrectly or needs adjustment? I just find it hard to believe it has gone bad after such little use. If it's rarely used it may be corroding in a certain contact area which might not happen if it was used regularly. Sometimes things that are used infrequently fail quicker than if they were used frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 A little help: http://www.homeimprovementsdepot.com/how-t...diverter-valve/ Thanks for posting this. One question about replacing the diverter: Are all diverters the same or will there be a special one for my hardware? My hardware is not available from Home Depot or Lowes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I have a shower that isn't functioning correctly. It has a single handle that rotates counter clockwise to increase water temp. There is a pull knob underneath the handle that activates the diverter to change the water from the tub to the shower. When the water is at a low temp, I can pull the knob and the shower works fine. However, if I increase the water temp by rotating the handle, the pressure drops and the diverter no longer functions. There is still decent water pressure but not enough to keep the diverter engaged. Any ideas on how to fix this? Faulty diverter? Any way to get more water pressure? I have 4 other showers that work fine and they all have the same/similar hardware. Any help is appreciated. My first guess would be the diverter that from the way I understand it thats on your tub spout. I think when its on low temp the pressure of the cold water keeps it activated but not with the hot. You can repair the diverter depending on what type it is. As someone said the spout usually screws off but can be diffucult. Some are held on by an allen screw under the bottom. Pics would help. Edited January 25, 2012 by Footballjoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 My first guess would be the diverter that from the way I understand it thats on your tub spout. I think when its on low temp the pressure of the cold water keeps it activated but not with the hot. You can repair the diverter depending on what type it is. As someone said the spout usually screws off but can be diffucult. Some are held on by an allen screw under the bottom. Pics would help. Okay, Idon't think I've explained the hardware correctly. The bath spout is at the bottom and does not have a diverter on it. Above that (at waist level), I have a plate on the wall. That plate has a handle that rotates counter clockwise to increase the water temperture. Below the handle, but still on the plate, I have a little knob that protrudes from the plate/wall. This is what I pull to start the shower. The diverter works if I haven't turned the temperture handle around very far, but once I turn it to get very hot water, the water pressure drops a little and the diverter releases and the shower turns back into a bath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Okay, Idon't think I've explained the hardware correctly. The bath spout is at the bottom and does not have a diverter on it. Above that (at waist level), I have a plate on the wall. That plate has a handle that rotates counter clockwise to increase the water temperture. Below the handle, but still on the plate, I have a little knob that protrudes from the plate/wall. This is what I pull to start the shower. The diverter works if I haven't turned the temperture handle around very far, but once I turn it to get very hot water, the water pressure drops a little and the diverter releases and the shower turns back into a bath. This kinda sounds like a very old Delta faucet but can't say for sure. I have seen them but never worked on them. I am going to look on line to see if I can find what you have. Edited January 25, 2012 by Footballjoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballjoe Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I think its the Delta 600 series. Replacing the Diverter and Handle on a Delta 600 Series Shower Faucet If I Can Do It So Can You I had to replace the diverter in my Delta 602 shower faucet. The diverter is the gizmo that when pushed in causes the water to go from the tub spout to the shower spout. Here's how I did it. Contentslessmore Permanent link to this knol: Link Lowder, Jon. Replacing the Diverter and Handle on a Delta 600 Series Shower Faucet:If I Can Do It So Can You [internet]. Version 2. Knol. 2008 Jul 24. Available from: http://knol.google.com/k/jon-lowder/replac.../dczr3a3bum9m/2. CitationEmailPrintFavoriteCollect this page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, it doesn't qualify me for the Handyman Hall of Fame, but I pulled off a household DIY that, frankly, I thought was beyond me. Try to follow the technical explanation here; in our master bathroom the doohickey that you push in to make the water come out of the shower nozzle instead of the bath nozzle was regularly being expelled with force every once in a while. When I say with force I mean that the doohickey flew out of its home, heretofore known as the doohickey hole, with such great force that it would slam into the wall on the other end of the bathtub, which is approximately five feet, with enough force to sound like small arms fire. The first time it happened it missed Celeste by about two inches. Anyway, for months we were able to finesse the doohickey back into its hole and it would work for a while and then, seemingly out of nowhere it would try to impale one of us. Finally, this week the doohickey refused to be finessed and it was time for repair. As I've documented many times here I'm no Bob Vila and this project intimidated me, especially since it took a plumber an hour to fix the drain system in the same tub. I figured I was in for a long week. So, I pulled the face plate off of the faucet to see if I could figure out what to do. When I pulled it off I found that the doohickey was actually a part of a larger piece that screws directly into the whatchamajiget that tells the water whether or not to be hot, cold or indifferent. For a while I thought I might have to shut off the main water supply, but then I realized that if I kept the faucet off it would act as a shut off valve since it was located at the top of this particular operation. This was of great relief to me since the last time I shut off the main water supply we had all kinds of creepy noises coming from our pipes for days afterward, which of course deprived Celeste (aka Bat Ears) of her beauty sleep. My next step was to jump online and see if anyone sold replacement doohickeys. My worry is that like everything else in this house our shower is a tad on the old side and I was worried that replacement parts would be hard to find. After a little hunting and pecking I found a plumbing supply site that had a picture of what appeared to be our shower equipment. Here it is: It seems that our shower faucet is a Delta 602, and that the doohickey is actually called a diverter. After a little more hunting I found that the diverter is sold in most hardware stores, so this morning I went over to Lowes and purchased my shiny new doohickey. Once I came home I attempted to remove the old doohickey but unfortunately my wrench set seemed to be shy the 7/8" size I needed and unfortunately my adjustable wrench and lock pliers were too bulky to get the job done. I gave it my best shot but despite my sweating and cursing I couldn't get my crusty old doohickey out of its hole. Unfortunately the lack of appropriate tools is common for my DIY projects so I made my way back to Lowes to buy my new wrench. I bought it and all the other wrenches over 5/8" just to be safe (5/8 being the largest wrench I could find back home) and justified it in my mind by telling myself that surely a 1" wrench will be needed at some point in the future for another project on the Money Pit. I also decided that while I was at it I'd buy a new knob for the faucet since our old one was crustier than the doohickey and I might as well do it while I had the whole thing torn apart. Upon my return I found that the 7/8" worked perfectly and I had the old doohickey off in a flash. I put some thread tape on the new doohickey and inserted it in the hole, tightened it, put the face plate (also known as the escutcheon) back on, put on the new knob and gave it a test drive. Miracle of miracles it worked on the first try and it didn't leak. I'm thinking I've earned a mid-day beer. Here's a pic of our broken doohickey (click on it and the picture below to enlarge them). The white piece is what sticks into the water pipe to divert the water to the shower head. It's supposed to be attached to the other parts, but it became separated from the "button arm" (which looks like a button when it's installed) that's supposed to push it into the pipe. Here's a picture of the part all separated. You see that the "button arm" actually fits inside a spring which fits inside the "sleeve" of the piece. When the water is running and you push the button arm in the water pressure against the white part will keep the spring from pushing the "button arm" back out. When you turn off the water the pressure against the white part decreases and the spring pushes the button arm back out allowing the rest of the water to drain out from the tub faucet. So for those of you who may face your own battle with a Delta faucet here's the glossary of terms and steps for repair: Edited January 26, 2012 by Footballjoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelBunz Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Well.....I've got a different take on this. I'm not sure it is the diverter at all. Water and pipes naturally produce corrosion and stir up little tiny flaked minerals when they sit unused for a time. They dislodge the next time you use the valve. Just like you need to clean out the screen and aerator in sink faucets and showerheads once in a while. A single handle faucet allows you to go from all cold....to warm...then to hot by starting with the cold side fully open and the hot fully closed, to varying the aperatures to your desired temp. Since your pressure drops as you get warmer, I think the hot water pipe is either clogged, or the opening in the valve that lets hot water into the mix is clogged. The diverter won't work below a certain pressure. Since it works with cold fully on, I don't think it's the diverter. Look up the model you have from the manufacturer and get a blown out schematic in the manual. You will also be able to take the valve apart and clean or replace any part you need to. SHUT the water off to that shower to do this. Depending on what type of valve you have, I think you'll find some sort of blockage on the hot water side. Could be a deteriorated O-ring, or mineral deposits. What kind of faucet/shower valve is it? Edited January 26, 2012 by SteelBunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelBunz Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 And this brings up a really good reminder for homeowners. Tip #365.....lol. The quickest way to guarantee a future plumbing problem is to leave a fixture unused for long periods of time. All fixtures in the house should be turned on full and be allowed to run 1st very hot for about 5 minutes, then full cold for a couple minutes. At least once a week. This does a couple things. It keeps all pipes and drains from drying out completely. Some minerals will never precipitate out of a water solution until there is NO more water left, leaving a residue or deposit. It will either just continue to build up in the pipe narrowing the size, lowering the pressure,and eventually corroding the pipe clean through OR it can break away and clog other parts of the fixture. And you absolutely want to make sure there is water in the p-trap of the drain that accompanies your fixture. This keeps sewer gases from coming into the house. The other thing running hot water will do is to help keep grease clogs to a minimum. Depending on how far your sewer is from your kitchen sink, you should always allow hot water to run long enough to flush all the way to the sewer. That will be a longer time than you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 fill a 5 gallon bucket with steam and force it down the drain. should fix the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 AGree with bunz. I'd turn the water off and take it apart to see what is going on. Amazing how many times a simple cleaning and/or replacing rubber washers will work on plumbing problems like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 AGree with bunz. I'd turn the water off and take it apart to see what is going on. Amazing how many times a simple cleaning and/or replacing rubber washers will work on plumbing problems like this. :disclaimer: If you are going to turn the water off and take this apart, take a Friday off. Start at 8:00 am so you have all day to run back and forth to Home Depot 6 times for the right parts. Then, at 3:00 if you haven't figured it out, call a plumber so you can still pay normal rate for him to come and put it back together. Never, and I mean ever, start this project after work during the week at 7:00pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Irish Doggy Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 By turning off the water, I am assuming there is/are a shut off/s for just the shower. I like taking them apart so that if you do have a defective part, you take it with you to the plumbing supply store. And he does have 3 other showers if he has to wait and call a professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeteebee Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Well.....I've got a different take on this. I'm not sure it is the diverter at all. Water and pipes naturally produce corrosion and stir up little tiny flaked minerals when they sit unused for a time. They dislodge the next time you use the valve. Just like you need to clean out the screen and aerator in sink faucets and showerheads once in a while. A single handle faucet allows you to go from all cold....to warm...then to hot by starting with the cold side fully open and the hot fully closed, to varying the aperatures to your desired temp. Since your pressure drops as you get warmer, I think the hot water pipe is either clogged, or the opening in the valve that lets hot water into the mix is clogged. The diverter won't work below a certain pressure. Since it works with cold fully on, I don't think it's the diverter. Look up the model you have from the manufacturer and get a blown out schematic in the manual. You will also be able to take the valve apart and clean or replace any part you need to. SHUT the water off to that shower to do this. Depending on what type of valve you have, I think you'll find some sort of blockage on the hot water side. Could be a deteriorated O-ring, or mineral deposits. What kind of faucet/shower valve is it? I wish I had seen this last night.... The diverter is currently off after much effort. And the way the I mangled the head of it to get it off, I'll need a new one regardless. Regarding the valve (I am at work and can't see it right now) I believe it is welded onto the pipes. Will I need to cut it off? If so, I'm out of my league and will need to call a pro. However, I believe there were some screws on the front of it. If I just need to remove the screws to clean it out, I can probably handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 You have 4 other showers???? I'm still curious about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'm still curious about this. http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?showtopic=374036 Referring to a different definition of a diverter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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