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Disturbing e-mails could spell more trouble for Penn State officials


Azazello1313
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I would like you direct your (menudo's) attention to one bit in particular:

 

In an alleged e-mail dated February 26, 2001, Schultz writes to Curley that he assumes Curley's "got the ball" about a three-part plan to "talk with the subject asap regarding the future appropriate use of the University facility," ... "contacting the chair of the charitable organization" and "contacting the Department of Welfare," according to a source with knowledge of the case.

 

Schultz refers to Sandusky as the "subject" and Sandusky's Second Mile charity as the "charitable organization," according to a source with knowledge of the e-mails.

 

Pennsylvania law requires suspected child abuse be reported to outside authorities, including the state's child welfare agencies.

 

But then, something changes.

 

The next evening, February 27, Curley allegedly writes to Spanier. Schultz, who's out of the office for two weeks, is copied.

 

Curley refers to a meeting scheduled that day with Spanier and indicates they apparently discussed the Sandusky incident two days earlier.

 

Curley indicates he no longer wants to contact child welfare authorities just yet. He refers to a conversation the day before with Paterno. It's not known what Paterno may have said to Curley.

 

Curley writes: "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps."

 

The athletic director apparently preferred to keep the situation an internal affair and talk things over with Sandusky instead of notifying the state's child welfare agency to investigate Sandusky's suspicious activity.

 

"I am having trouble with going to everyone, but the person involved," Curley allegedly continues.

Curley writes he'd be "more comfortable" meeting with Sandusky himself and telling him they know about the 2001 incident and -- according to a source with knowledge of the case -- refers to another shower incident with a boy in 1998 that was investigated by police, but never resulted in charges against Sandusky.

 

Curley writes to Penn State's president Spanier that he wants to meet with Sandusky, tell him there's "a problem," and that "we want to assist the individual to get professional help."

In the same purported e-mail provided to CNN, Curley goes on to suggest that if Sandusky "is cooperative," Penn State "would work with him" to tell Second Mile. If not, Curley states, the university will inform both Second Mile and outside authorities.

 

Curley adds that he intends to inform Sandusky that his "guests" won't be allowed to use Penn State facilities anymore.

 

"What do you think of this approach?" Curley allegedly wrote to Spanier.

About two hours later, Spanier responded to Curley in another e-mail and copied Schultz. Spanier allegedly called the plan "acceptable", but worries whether it's the right thing to do, according to two sources.

 

"The only downside for us is if the message (to Sandusky) isn't 'heard' and acted upon, and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it," Spanier purportedly wrote.

 

"But that can be assessed down the down the road. The approach you outline is humane and a reasonable way to proceed," he adds.

 

The next afternoon, Schultz allegedly responded to the Penn State president and its athletic director. Schultz signs off on handling the matter without telling anyone on the outside, at least for now.

"This is a more humane and upfront way to handle this,' Schultz purportedly wrote. But he made clear Penn State should inform Sandusky's charity Second Mile "with or without (Sandusky's) cooperation."

As for telling child welfare authorities, he added, "we can play it by ear."

 

No one ever reported the 2001 shower incident. A decade later, a 2011 grand jury found no Pennsylvania law enforcement or child welfare agency was ever told.

 

so, it sounds like they were about to handle this correctly, reporting it to authorities. then paterno talked to curley and curley came back advocating for a "more humane" solution, which apparently amounted to telling sandusky not to bring his "guests" to the penn state campus anymore.

 

seems to bolster yet again what I've felt all along, that many people in the penn state hierarchy were culpable, and joe pa is at the very top of that list.

 

edit to add: how lovely that they are so thoughtfully considering the downside "for us" (penn state). nary a consideration as to the downside for any other children he might decide to rape -- off campus, of course.

Edited by Azazello1313
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Boys being raped by a coach on the grounds. A coach sees it and reports it up to his superiors. The police are involved and a report of at least one incident is filed, therefore the administration was fully aware of the whole thing. Yet all is swept under the rug and covered up by all university authorities involved and then the actions continue to go on for another decade +/-. Penn State's football program has to get the NCAA death penalty, as well as all involved in the coverup being brought to justice through criminal and civil prosecutions. That seems to be the only rational course of action.

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Rational courses, responsible behavior, justice? These are not things we do well anymore as a society. Instead we do rationalizations for reprehensible behavior which we justify and apologize for to show how open-minded we are.

 

So many are trying to turn the institution into the victim rather than those who were savaged. This is the new intellectualism, the new orthodoxy. Adherents congratulate themselves on their open-minded resistence to making judgements while they judge those with standards. When it is pointed out that their judgement of those with standards is the very activity they so roundly espouse against the next recourse is hatespeak, another thing they rail against in others but practice themselves.

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:link:

 

I would like you direct your (menudo's) attention to one bit in particular:

 

 

Thanks for calling my attention to it. I'm actually with the group of PSU fans that admit that Paterno didn't do enough, and that his image is forever tarnished. Now, with more evidence coming forward that Paterno participated in conversations that led to the administrators not going to the police, I think it is beyond tarnished, and pretty much destroyed. It is a hard thing for me to read, as, this was a man that I felt always stood for what was right. However, in his most important opportunity to do what was right, he failed, and his failure helped allow more innocent children to suffer. The whole situation makes me sick to my stomach. I'm not sure what else to say. If the football program is punished because of all this, they will just have to deal with the consequences of their actions. I'm just anxious for the story to go away, so that O'Brien and the new coaching staff can move on and try to rebuild what has been destroyed. I realize that it is far from going away, and in some people's minds, it will always be tarnished, and for those that feel that way, I completely understand. The whole situation is awful in every sense of the word. Sandusky is the definition of scum, and those in power to stop him, including and most importantly, Paterno, didn't do what was necessary to avoid this monster hurting other kids. There is no defending anyone involved, in my opinion.

Edited by Menudo
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Boys being raped by a coach on the grounds. A coach sees it and reports it up to his superiors. The police are involved and a report of at least one incident is filed, therefore the administration was fully aware of the whole thing. Yet all is swept under the rug and covered up by all university authorities involved and then the actions continue to go on for another decade +/-. Penn State's football program has to get the NCAA death penalty, as well as all involved in the coverup being brought to justice through criminal and civil prosecutions. That seems to be the only rational course of action.

 

And what about the detective who was investigating it who disappeared mysteriously with only his smashed laptop found with the hard-drive missing? It's kind of been forgotten with everything else, but a detective and his computer's hard drive don't just go missing without something fishy being up...

 

Pure speculation, but given everything we already know, it sounds more and more like a lot of folks at Penn state were willing to anything to just make the problem go away (aside from, ummm, actually addressing the problem)....

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And what about the detective who was investigating it who disappeared mysteriously with only his smashed laptop found with the hard-drive missing? It's kind of been forgotten with everything else, but a detective and his computer's hard drive don't just go missing without something fishy being up...

 

Pure speculation, but given everything we already know, it sounds more and more like a lot of folks at Penn state were willing to anything to just make the problem go away (aside from, ummm, actually addressing the problem)....

 

It does speak volumes about the many effed-up layers to this that the bit about the investigator going missing and all just sort of floats to the surface as an "oh by the way" now and then.

 

In general, I understand BB's sentiments regarding the football death penalty, and I honestly don't care how far the authorities go, provided they go far. But here's my only issue with a football-related punishment; it doesn't do enough to actually make people realize that it's a cuffing game! These were criminal acts of an unspeakably horrible nature, not merely NCAA violations. I want to see people behind bars. I want to see PSU purge itself of anyone in power who knew and didn't do anything. I could care less about football in this matter.

 

SMU got the "death penalty" because it gave money to kids. That's not a crime, that's cheating at a game, which is a massive, massive difference. So, if I have any issue with the death penalty, it is simply because I don't want this to be handled like a sports issue. I want a-holes like Coach K who are so quick to rush to the defense of a fellow diety to understand that we don't give two craps about how many gyms or libraries you help build (while you're personally raking it in, btw). You are not a god. You do answer to the law and you are obliged to put the law before the success of your program.

 

That said, screw it. If the NCAA, as well as the state, wants to rake them over the coals, so be it.

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It does speak volumes about the many effed-up layers to this that the bit about the investigator going missing and all just sort of floats to the surface as an "oh by the way" now and then.

 

In general, I understand BB's sentiments regarding the football death penalty, and I honestly don't care how far the authorities go, provided they go far. But here's my only issue with a football-related punishment; it doesn't do enough to actually make people realize that it's a cuffing game! These were criminal acts of an unspeakably horrible nature, not merely NCAA violations. I want to see people behind bars. I want to see PSU purge itself of anyone in power who knew and didn't do anything. I could care less about football in this matter.

 

SMU got the "death penalty" because it gave money to kids. That's not a crime, that's cheating at a game, which is a massive, massive difference. So, if I have any issue with the death penalty, it is simply because I don't want this to be handled like a sports issue. I want a-holes like Coach K who are so quick to rush to the defense of a fellow diety to understand that we don't give two craps about how many gyms or libraries you help build (while you're personally raking it in, btw). You are not a god. You do answer to the law and you are obliged to put the law before the success of your program.

 

That said, screw it. If the NCAA, as well as the state, wants to rake them over the coals, so be it.

 

Agreed. I don't give a damn about football here, this is about justice, but at the same time am in favor of them being made an example of too, so universities will maybe think twice about putting their program's "integrity" in front of what they know is right.

Edited by delusions of grandeur
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Thanks for calling my attention to it. I'm actually with the group of PSU fans that admit that Paterno didn't do enough, and that his image is forever tarnished. Now, with more evidence coming forward that Paterno participated in conversations that led to the administrators not going to the police, I think it is beyond tarnished, and pretty much destroyed. It is a hard thing for me to read, as, this was a man that I felt always stood for what was right. However, in his most important opportunity to do what was right, he failed, and his failure helped allow more innocent children to suffer. The whole situation makes me sick to my stomach. I'm not sure what else to say. If the football program is punished because of all this, they will just have to deal with the consequences of their actions. I'm just anxious for the story to go away, so that O'Brien and the new coaching staff can move on and try to rebuild what has been destroyed. I realize that it is far from going away, and in some people's minds, it will always be tarnished, and for those that feel that way, I completely understand. The whole situation is awful in every sense of the word. Sandusky is the definition of scum, and those in power to stop him, including and most importantly, Paterno, didn't do what was necessary to avoid this monster hurting other kids. There is no defending anyone involved, in my opinion.

 

 

He did more than fail to do the right thing. He proactively did the wrong thing. There's a big difference between the two in my book.

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He did more than fail to do the right thing. He proactively did the wrong thing. There's a big difference between the two in my book.

 

 

Yep...he could have blown the whole thing up. But nooooo...there were more important issues. Football and Joe's legacy. They came before doing the right thing.

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Agreed. I don't give a damn about football here, this is about justice, but at the same time am in favor of them being made an example of too, so universities will maybe think twice about putting their program's "integrity" in front of what they know is right.

 

Which is, unfortunately, a very compelling argument for the death penalty. Not because it should be. Because, taking their precious football away should be pretty effing minor in this situation.

 

And that is both why it bothers me to think that the NCAA death penalty should be in play and why I'm not prepared to argue very hard against it.

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He did more than fail to do the right thing. He proactively did the wrong thing. There's a big difference between the two in my book.

 

 

I don't disagree with you.

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I fell sorry for the young athletes that are on the team now. They didn't even know about the incidences that happened years ago, but may suffer from the in-actions of the authority at the school?? It's disgusting what took place and I wish JoePa was still around to answer to for his part in this atrocity.

 

To play devils advocate here... instead of punishing those young athletes and those recently hired to "right the ship" with the death penalty, how about starting with a firing of all those with ANY knowledge of the incidents, followed a ban for life in ever serving in NCAA setting or school setting, followed by any and every legal action possible being filed against them?? Make their lives miserable. This would set an example for others at institutions that your life WILL cease to exist if you even think about pulling this kind of crap, while at the same time retain the new coaches and players ability to bridge the program to a new future.

 

Just a thought.

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First off, I clearly advocated for criminal and civil prosecution of all involved in allowing these despicable crimes to go on after initially discovered a decade ago. Not sure how you picked up otherwise, det.

 

Secondly, the entire coverup and protection of Sandusky was pretty obviously institutional and very obviously done to protect the football program, which is very big business. So severe sanctions against the program would seem to be not only necessary and appropriate, but imperative. Properly punishing the university as well as sending all other programs a very loud and clear message on this is required, IMO.

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First off, I clearly advocated for criminal and civil prosecution of all involved in allowing these despicable crimes to go on after initially discovered a decade ago. Not sure how you picked up otherwise, det.

 

Secondly, the entire coverup and protection of Sandusky was pretty obviously institutional and very obviously done to protect the football program, which is very big business. So severe sanctions against the program would seem to be not only necessary and appropriate, but imperative. Properly punishing the university as well as sending all other programs a very loud and clear message on this is required, IMO.

 

I didn't and didn't imply otherwise. I thought I made myself clear. That, conceptually, I have an issue with football-related penalties being brought up because I think that almost trivializes the gravity of the situation.

 

"Because your program harbored a pedophile, we're sending all responsible to jail and, oh yeah, your football team is now going to suck for a long time."

 

That I wish that sort of penalty would be inconsequential in the big picture, even if I recognize, for financial reasons, it is not.

 

However, both in my post that referenced you and my response to DoG, I also recognize that I realize why people would want to go that route, in addition to crimal action, and that it was certainly not something I was going to dig my heels in over.

 

Take it as you wish, but I don't have much interest in going down this road with you.

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I see no reason for a death penalty due to this criminal behavior. This had nothing to do with the athletes today or the athletes in the near future.

 

That said, Those that participated in obstruction should be exposed, prosecuted, and held accountable in criminal and civil courts.

 

In the event this information is true it went way beyond football.

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Where the school is concerned, cleaning house makes the most sense to me. Rid the school of anyone who was involved in the cover-up. Hold a candlelight vigil in the football stadium, have a chaplain pray for the victims and that the new staff will have more integrity than the old. Recognize the errors of the past and declare a new era. Everyone will eat it up.

 

Then prosecute those involved to the fullest extent of the law. And I hope the victims sue too.

 

Football penalties should be reserved for football-related infractions, like paying players, point shaving etc.

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Football is their opiate. It allows them to ignore the realities of the world. It distracts. It justifies.

 

As for the players. I say release any recruited before the story broke. Let them latch on anywhere and without sitting out. As for the ones who signed after the story broke, well I have a difficult time feeling sorry for them, but since they are young men let them leave with the standard year off until they are eligible at their new school.

 

An empty stadium would be a nice monument. It would force confrontation with reality. But it should not be forever. Eventually it becomes time to move on even though just typing that seems wrong.

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Football is their opiate. It allows them to ignore the realities of the world. It distracts. It justifies.

 

As for the players. I say release any recruited before the story broke. Let them latch on anywhere and without sitting out. As for the ones who signed after the story broke, well I have a difficult time feeling sorry for them, but since they are young men let them leave with the standard year off until they are eligible at their new school.

 

An empty stadium would be a nice monument. It would force confrontation with reality. But it should not be forever. Eventually it becomes time to move on even though just typing that seems wrong.

 

 

I agree with this. The school should get the death penalty a la SMU (so it's not permanent--but pretty gnarly nonetheless) but I would all of the current players transfer without losing any eligibility.

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