chiefswarpath Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 In my 12 team PPR the top 6 make playoffs. On the overall standings i was ranked 6th. The League manger changed the seeds switching me with 7th seeded team (who happens to be his son) His justification was that the league standings were incorrect because I finished lower in pts, and had a worse division record. We split head to head 1-1. Do I have a case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Are your league rules not spelled out for this? If not, then I guess the Commissioner can just make it up as he goes. What do your league rule say regarding playoffs, seeding, tie-breakers, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Dick Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Are your league rules not spelled out for this? If not, then I guess the Commissioner can just make it up as he goes. What do your league rule say regarding playoffs, seeding, tie-breakers, etc.? Yep. Post the league rules so we can help you figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 If your overall record was the same as his, and you split head-to-head, and he had more total points than you, and he had a better division record than you, then what about your position leads you to believe that you should be seeded higher than him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefswarpath Posted December 3, 2013 Author Share Posted December 3, 2013 There is no league rules I could find. The LM commented on how there were no posted tie breaker rules. He said according to NFL.com tie breaking rules it goes 1.Head to Head 2. Total pts 3. Pts against 4. Coin Flip. I really don't have much of argument I was surprised when I logged on and say me in playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Wait, what are your respective records? If you're tied, he should be in 6th based on tiebreakers. If you have a better overall record and he's flipping his son ahead of you then yeah there's an issue here. Maybe I'm misreading something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefswarpath Posted December 3, 2013 Author Share Posted December 3, 2013 Same record 7-6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefswarpath Posted December 3, 2013 Author Share Posted December 3, 2013 The only tie breaker on our site for playoffs is head to head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Uh...that's a really condensed version of NFL tiebreakers. http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures Though he is right about the division record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Sorry boss, but the commish is correct here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The only tie breaker on our site for playoffs is head to head. Interesting, we removed that as a tie-breaker some time ago. We use overall record, then division record (only for teams in the same division) then total points. We just set up our playoffs and total points were used to break several ties in seeding. One key to keeping things straight is look at the NFL tiebreakers when it is multiple teams in the same division. The best team is chosen, then compared to teams from other divisions. We do the same thing and had an owner upset one year because they had higher points than some teams with the same record, but were sutck behind one or more teams in their division because of a bad division record. Per the original question, without any defined tie breakers I think it makes sense, and given the attempt to mirror NFL tie breakers I think it is fine. Maybe a change in league setting can be used so that the proper tie breakers are used when showing the team standings. We try to do that so that an owner knows where they stand. The last week or two we try to cover playoff scenarios for the whole league. Either way it sounds like you missed instead of made the playoffs, but that you now understand why. Better luck next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theirish Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 The only tie breaker on our site for playoffs is head to head. From my understanding from this, is your league tie breaker probably came down to record againist each other (1-1) and then who beat the other team by more points. So if you beat him week a by 40 points and he beat you in week b by 10 points, then that is probably why you were origanlly a higher seed. If that is the case then, I would have a huge issue, since by your league rules, then you should of been the 6th seed. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) From my understanding from this, is your league tie breaker probably came down to record againist each other (1-1) and then who beat the other team by more points. So if you beat him week a by 40 points and he beat you in week b by 10 points, then that is probably why you were origanlly a higher seed. If that is the case then, I would have a huge issue, since by your league rules, then you should of been the 6th seed. Simple as that. I suppose that could be the reason, but I've never heard of the margin of victory in a H2H game being used to rank players in the standings. Even if they were, people need to understand that the rankings may not be able to accurately reflect the standings used to determine playoff spots. A league management site (CBS, Yahoo, ESPN, MFL) is going to have limited control on how your standings sort. You may have more and/or different tie breakers to decide the standings (and therefore playoffs) than it can handle. So, the way teams are sorted in the standings of your league may not be the actual standings and seeding for playoffs. Maybe the standings on the site are sorted by division record for teams tied in a division, instead of total points. Or maybe the commish did not put in the proper information for sorting the standings. On ours we can specify them as needed so our standings always sort properly (if I am behind you in the division I am behind you for a playoff spot). Sounds like the commish has explained the tie breakers and those make sense and the seeding agrees with that. I can see where the OP would be upset, thinking they were #6 (and in the playoffs) only to find out later they were #7 and missed. PS Tie breakers and playoff seeding/ranking info should be listed in the league rules somehow, not left to the commish to decide when the playoffs are starting. Edited December 3, 2013 by stevegrab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satelliteoflovegm Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 If he's going to use the NFL TB's he should use them all and reseed the whole league. You could have a shot if the son would lose on a divisional wildcard tie breaker which only one team comes from a division each TB round. Then you might match-up better against that team for the final spot, or a spot. I use a slightly modified version of the NFL TB's and I have seen it happen. Also, sometimes, I just make honda up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Do Work Son Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 You might have a case. I think its odd that he had to manually switch you out when everything is usually automatically set based on the league rules. Based on how you explained it, I have a feeling you might use the same rules as my 1 league. Below are the tiebreaker rules my league uses. 1. Head to Head. (1-1) 2. Points scored Head-to-Head(points scored in head to head games against tied teams) (?????????) 3. Divisional record (his son) 4. Total Points(his son) So, im pretty much asking you to add up the total points you had against his son in both games. And also the total points for his son in the 2 games against you. Who had more total points in the 2 games? Also, what site do you use? This is the only league I use this site so im not sure if its standard tiebreaker or the commish customized them to his preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggerz Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I'll bet the standings were sorted alphabetically for teams with the same records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I'll bet the standings were sorted alphabetically for teams with the same records. Or as I said sorted using some criteria other than what tie breakers are used to determine playoffs. Whether that was not possible or the commish just didn't set it up right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Sorry boss, but the commish is correct here. Though a possibility could be that the commish had set up different tie-breakers in a custom league (see here), but could be referencing the default tie-breaker to suit his desire to have his son in the playoffs. Check on your league site if you can find the posted rule on that. That would be the only way to determine if there might be tampering.... Otherwise your commish is correct to use the default tie-breaker (I'm only suspicious because it would seem easy and appropriate to have the site seed according to default settings, rather than make you manually do it per their rules) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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