stevegrab Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The "gift" the Cowboys got when the PI flag was picked up is no different that the "gifts" Detroit received on other plays where penalties occurred that were not called, no different than when Detroit was called for a false start, no different than a play for the other team is called back because of holding on the other side of the field, no different than the "gift" that Detroit got when Bailey missed his field goal. You are still trying to make to much of a single play/call that happened in the game. And you're still trying to make it into nothing, and equating it with things that are not even related to officiating (Bailey's missed FG, really?) Don't forget to check in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTomWeTrust Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 And you're still trying to make it into nothing, and equating it with things that are not even related to officiating (Bailey's missed FG, really?) Don't forget to check in... he wont check in becauase hes delusional about the lions being on the DALLAS 14 yard LINE I even went as far as advised ok with face mask that was actually a split second that didnt look intentional and was actually caught in the helmet because as you can show from screen shots the tugging of the jersey is more than clear. #2 show the Pass interenfece and defender CLEARLY making contact with pettigrew with ball in air about 5-7 feet from defenders. #3 shows DEZ screaming like animal with helmet off going crazy He wont check in on dallas being on the 14 with megatron ready to go off up 2 scores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 And you're still trying to make it into nothing, and equating it with things that are not even related to officiating (Bailey's missed FG, really?) Don't forget to check in... what about the 7 they missed that would have went against Detroit Steve..do they count? Check in plz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 what about the 7 they missed that would have went against Detroit Steve..do they count? Check in plz Checking in, yes they all count. But they were addressed as part of regular procedures from games. All coaches can submit a list of calls they want clarification on. The league then reviews and gets back to them. Sometimes info leaks out, but it is rarely publicized and given much attention. A little different from the other calls and how Blandino addresses those specifically. How much longer we gonna beat this dead horsey. Cowboy fans please check in, I'm not sure if you've all taken your swings yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTomWeTrust Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Checking in, yes they all count. But they were addressed as part of regular procedures from games. All coaches can submit a list of calls they want clarification on. The league then reviews and gets back to them. Sometimes info leaks out, but it is rarely publicized and given much attention. A little different from the other calls and how Blandino addresses those specifically. How much longer we gonna beat this dead horsey. Cowboy fans please check in, I'm not sure if you've all taken your swings yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 And you're still trying to make it into nothing, and equating it with things that are not even related to officiating (Bailey's missed FG, really?) Don't forget to check in... You are attempting to isolate this single play/call as more important than any other single play/call. I think you are wrong. This single play is just one of the 125 plays that occurred in the game. The game is the culmination of all 125 plays, no play stands on its own. You will have to explain to me how this single play has any more significance than any other play in the game. Here is where you going to give me that woulda, coulda, shoulda bullhonda. You are going to say IF the flag isn't picked up Detroit would of proceeded to score and win the game. I maintain nobody knows what would of happened. But changing that single play isn't any more significant than taking a 1st down play away from Detroit on their last scoring drive, or taking away 1 of the turn overs, or taking away 1 of the sacks. The game is decided based on the culmination of all plays, not on any single play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTomWeTrust Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You are attempting to isolate this single play/call as more important than any other single play/call. I think you are wrong. This single play is just one of the 125 plays that occurred in the game. The game is the culmination of all 125 plays, no play stands on its own. You will have to explain to me how this single play has any more significance than any other play in the game. Here is where you going to give me that woulda, coulda, shoulda bullhonda. You are going to say IF the flag isn't picked up Detroit would of proceeded to score and win the game. I maintain nobody knows what would of happened. But changing that single play isn't any more significant than taking a 1st down play away from Detroit on their last scoring drive, or taking away 1 of the turn overs, or taking away 1 of the sacks. The game is decided based on the culmination of all plays, not on any single play. RIGHT AND THE cowboys were dominated in plays all game long, and were gifted holding penalties they were simply outplayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojanmojo Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 More Cowboy douchebaggery --> Jerks D1ck Kid Out Of A PS4 Madden Game For Being A Lions Fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 More Cowboy douchebaggery --> Jerks D1ck Kid Out Of A PS4 Madden Game For Being A Lions Fan well that settles it...I hate the Cowboys now too :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isleseeya Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 well that settles it...I hate the Cowboys now too :mad: Awesome :highfive: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojanmojo Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 well that settles it...I hate the Cowboys now too :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 You are attempting to isolate this single play/call as more important than any other single play/call. I think you are wrong. This single play is just one of the 125 plays that occurred in the game. The game is the culmination of all 125 plays, no play stands on its own. You will have to explain to me how this single play has any more significance than any other play in the game. Here is where you going to give me that woulda, coulda, shoulda bullhonda. You are going to say IF the flag isn't picked up Detroit would of proceeded to score and win the game. I maintain nobody knows what would of happened. But changing that single play isn't any more significant than taking a 1st down play away from Detroit on their last scoring drive, or taking away 1 of the turn overs, or taking away 1 of the sacks. The game is decided based on the culmination of all plays, not on any single play. The game should be decided by plays, not officials. Swing and a miss, strike one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The game should be decided by plays, not officials. Swing and a miss, strike one. Once again, you completely miss the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 The game should be decided by plays, not officials. Swing and a miss, strike one. So once the refs blow a call they should just stop the game, there is no point in playing on. All the plays that went before and all the plays that come after are irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 So once the refs blow a call they should just stop the game, there is no point in playing on. All the plays that went before and all the plays that come after are irrelevant. Come on, Grits... Some plays are bigger than others. That includes penalties, non-calls, decisions to punt vs. go for it on 4th down, etc. I said it before, what about the Fail Mary debacle in Seattle with the replacement refs? Every game will always have a handful of critical plays one way or another where you can point to those specific plays as having a significant impact on the game's outcome. To say no one play is more important than another is just plain incorrect. You say the game is merely a culmination of 125 plays with no single play standing on its own. Apply that logic to basketball - say a guy misses two free throws with his team down one point and 0.1 on the clock, meaning his team lost as a direct result of his inability to make his free throws. Are you trying to tell me that those missed free throws are no different than any other missed free throws in the game? Please tell me that's not your argument... Scott Norwood's missed FG at the end of SB XXV? That play is just a play? I understand that many things happened to get to the point where Norwood had a FG attempt to potentially win the game, but that single FG attempt was more important than all other plays prior to it because it single-handedly decided the game' winner. If Buffalo executes the play correctly, they win. If Buffalo doesn't, they lose. Not one of those previous 124 plays offers that level of importance. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Come on, Grits... Some plays are bigger than others. That includes penalties, non-calls, decisions to punt vs. go for it on 4th down, etc. I said it before, what about the Fail Mary debacle in Seattle with the replacement refs? Every game will always have a handful of critical plays one way or another where you can point to those specific plays as having a significant impact on the game's outcome. To say no one play is more important than another is just plain incorrect. You say the game is merely a culmination of 125 plays with no single play standing on its own. Apply that logic to basketball - say a guy misses two free throws with his team down one point and 0.1 on the clock, meaning his team lost as a direct result of his inability to make his free throws. Are you trying to tell me that those missed free throws are no different than any other missed free throws in the game? Please tell me that's not your argument... Scott Norwood's missed FG at the end of SB XXV? That play is just a play? I understand that many things happened to get to the point where Norwood had a FG attempt to potentially win the game, but that single FG attempt was more important than all other plays prior to it because it single-handedly decided the game' winner. If Buffalo executes the play correctly, they win. If Buffalo doesn't, they lose. Not one of those previous 124 plays offers that level of importance. So if everything in that basketball game is exactly the same except the missed free throws happened in the first quarter would you point to them as the significant thing that caused them to lose the game? Same with the FG ... it was ONE play that just happened to be at the end of the game. Take away a first down that put them into the position of trying the FG and you get the same result. You can't try a game winning FG or free throw unless you first put yourself in a position to make a play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 So if everything in that basketball game is exactly the same except the missed free throws happened in the first quarter would you point to them as the significant thing that caused them to lose the game? Same with the FG ... it was ONE play that just happened to be at the end of the game. Take away a first down that put them into the position of trying the FG and you get the same result. You can't try a game winning FG or free throw unless you first put yourself in a position to make a play. Of course free throws missed in the first quarter weren't the significant thing that caused the team to lose. You could point to a number of plays that might have impacted a one point basketball game or one point football game. From that standpoint, your logic is dead on. But the fact that a play occurs at the end of the game does matter. Reason: Because as each play happens, each team's opportunities to impact the game are reduced by one play. Every single play is not made in a vacuum. If every play in a game was made without any time-related consequence, then what you say is true. A sack on 3rd down means exactly the same in the first quarter as it does in the final minute of a game. But the reality is that there is a clock, and both teams are playing the game in order to have more points than the opponent when that clock expires. So, naturally, the plays that occur closer to the expiration of that clock hold more significance because neither team has the as much time to control the outcome of the game. They make decisions differently, and things like game flow, momentum, etc. actually matter. Take Norwood missing the "game winning" FG... There is a reason it is called the game winning attempt. That one play will end with the game resolved. Therefore, that one play's outcome is arguably the most important play in the game. Do you not even refer to such kicks as game winners? In your "all plays have equal importance" world, do you honestly not react differently to a FG miss at the end of the game vs. one in the first quarter? Imagine your Cowboys are one FG away from winning the SB with the clock at one second left. Are you telling me that your reaction to a miss there would be the same as if he missed a FG on Dallas' first FG attempt of the game when it is scoreless? BTW, this kind of debate is EXACTLY the kind of stuff that can make these boards awesome. You aren't an idiot if you don't agree with me, and I respect your willingness to argue the point and defend your position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 One other quick thought - all of this discussion started with the PI flag pickup, and I happen to agree with you that that one play did not decide the game. However, had that play occurred with one minute left, I would feel differently. There was still a decent amount of time left in the game when the PI flag was picked up. And since nobody knows how it would have played out differently, the play (though a turning point), didn't decide the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 You are telling me when Shaq goes 2 for 20 on the free throw stripe that it was the last two that lost them the game because of when they occurred? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 You are telling me when Shaq goes 2 for 20 on the free throw stripe that it was the last two that lost them the game because of when they occurred? I am. Because despite going 2 for 18 prior to that point, he had two free throw attempts at the end of the game that, if he makes them, win the game. And yes, if he misses, those last two free throws cost him the game. Because you can't look at a play in a vacuum - you have to look at it relative to the clock / game situation when assessing the importance. Obviously, the collective 2 for 20 would be a collective reason for losing, but that doesn't change the fact that the final two misses were more important than the rest because they alone had the power to change the outcome of the game at the time they were attempted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Good debate here. I'm not going to even bother to type up my point of view because MTS7 is doing it for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I am. Because despite going 2 for 18 prior to that point, he had two free throw attempts at the end of the game that, if he makes them, win the game. And yes, if he misses, those last two free throws cost him the game. Because you can't look at a play in a vacuum - you have to look at it relative to the clock / game situation when assessing the importance. Obviously, the collective 2 for 20 would be a collective reason for losing, but that doesn't change the fact that the final two misses were more important than the rest because they alone had the power to change the outcome of the game at the time they were attempted. Correct me if I am wrong but if he makes 2 more free throws it is 2 more points for the win REGARDLESS of when in the game he makes those 2 points. So if he makes is first 4 free throws and misses the next 16 they still have 2 more points and still win the game. Just means that when he takes the stripe for the last time they already have the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowboutthemCowboys Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 I am. Because despite going 2 for 18 prior to that point, he had two free throw attempts at the end of the game that, if he makes them, win the game. And yes, if he misses, those last two free throws cost him the game. Because you can't look at a play in a vacuum - you have to look at it relative to the clock / game situation when assessing the importance. Obviously, the collective 2 for 20 would be a collective reason for losing, but that doesn't change the fact that the final two misses were more important than the rest because they alone had the power to change the outcome of the game at the time they were attempted. no. If he would have made the 1st 10 or so it wouldn't have come down to the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BA Baracus Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 no. If he would have made the 1st 10 or so it wouldn't have come down to the end Not necessarily. A different situation on the scoreboard will cause different behavior for both teams. There is no way to know how 10 more points early in the game will affect the outcome. It's not as simple as just tacking them on to the final score. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Correct me if I am wrong but if he makes 2 more free throws it is 2 more points for the win REGARDLESS of when in the game he makes those 2 points. So if he makes is first 4 free throws and misses the next 16 they still have 2 more points and still win the game. Just means that when he takes the stripe for the last time they already have the lead. Truth. How does this defend your position though? Sorry if I can't connect the dots myself. The way I see it, the free throws at the end don't matter because of the game situation. In the first scenario, they matter tremendously. Therefore, not all 4 for 20 performances at the stripe are created equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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