Commissioner in one league isn’t paying winners, is this a bad way to handle it?

[char92474 11]

I’ve never encountered this in my twenty years of playing fantasy sports, so I’d like to get some feedback on this.  Sorry for the long explanation, but feel you would need to know all the details to make a judgement

 

I’ve run my league for 15 years now and there is a set of brothers in the league (I’ll call them Mike and Bob).  I’ve known Mike for 25 years, he used to be a friend back in my bar days but now I only see him at the draft and maybe one other time a year.  I’ve only known Bob for 3 years since he joined my league.  Draft day is the only time I ever have contact with him.

 

Both brothers are also in my 11-year-old keeper league and Mike is the commissioner.  This league uses an online draft and I don’t know a single other owner in the league, but I’ve been told that most of them are Bob’s friends.

 

After last year, Mike said that he was done running the league because he kept having issues with people not paying on time.  Because it’s an online draft and we don’t meet up, he has to rely on people mailing him checks and he said that he’s sick of having to hound the same people every year to get them to pay.  I told him I was willing to take over as commissioner (this is my only keeper league and I really like the format) but wanted the names of the problem owners.  I was going to tell these owners they needed to pay in full a few weeks before the draft and if they didn’t pay in time I would find replacement owners.  He told me that he changed his mind and he would stay on as commissioner.  He was mostly just venting and that even though he hates having to bug people to pay, everyone ends up paying him so it’s not a big deal.

 

So anyways, this year I was the big winner of the league.  I won the championship, total points and 5 high weeks.  The entry fee was $100 and I ended up winning $650.  Two weeks after the season, Mike sends an email to the entire league.  He said half the owners never paid and he’s sick of chasing them down.  It’s now the responsibility of the owners who still owe to contact him and arrange payment.  He also said that he isn’t going to pay any of the winners until everyone has paid.

 

I waited a couple days and emailed Mike and asked how many still owe and he said all of them.  One of the 6 owners emailed him and send he would mail a check but he never even heard back from the other owners.  He said most of the guys who owe are Bob’s friends but him and Bob got in a fight and aren’t speaking to one another.  He asked me to text Bob and tell him to text his friends and tell them to pay.  I texted Bob and he said he would try texting people to let them know but this is all his brother’s fault since he didn’t make them pay up front.  I also personally emailed all of the owners who owe and politely asked them to pay so the winners could get paid.  I haven’t heard from Mike, Bob or any of the other owners since.

So as it currently stands, 6 of the 12 teams never paid.  But 3 of those six that won ended up winning at least $100 so their winnings cover their entry fees, so basically three owners still owe.  The commissioner isn’t really doing anything about it because he blames his brother since they are his friends.  The brother is blaming the commissioner for allowing them to play without paying.  And only me and one other owner are actually owed any money (the rest of the winners won just enough to cover the entry fees) so none of the other owners who did pay care.  And I’m out $650.

 

By my math, the commissioner collected from 9 of the 12 teams once you included those who won enough to cover their fees, so he should pay me $487 (75% of what I won).  That to me is non-negiotiable.  In my opinion, he should pay the rest of what he owes me out of his own pocket since he is the one who dropped the ball and didn’t collect, but I know he will never agree to that.

 

Here's where my ethics question comes into play.  Bob finished second in my league and won $550.  Is it wrong for me to hold his winnings from my league as ransom until I get paid from the other league.  On one hand, I feel bad doing this because the leagues are totally separate and he’s not the commissioner of that league.  On the other hand, it’s (from what I was told) mostly his friends who haven’t paid.  Right now, he has no incentive to make those guys pay since he’s not getting any of the money. But if it means that he doesn’t get his money he has more incentive to push them to pay.  And it’s not my fault that the other league was run poorly so why should I be the one that gets screwed in the end?

What do you guys think?  
 

[40Rocket 3]

I would not pay him. If you give him his money. You can rest assured.  You will never get your first place winnings. I would straight up tell him. Get my money. And you get yours.  Just my opinion. Just last  year. I called and texted a owner about 40 times for $27 bucks. I was not going to let it go. He finally paid.  Then got kicked out of the league. I have no time for b.s.. good luck too ya!!

[char92474 11]

So far everyone I've told said the same thing, keep the brothers winnings.  I just feel bad because technically the guy I'm stiffing wasn't responsible for the other league.  But if it is his friends who owe, he can press them to pay.  If if they aren't his friends, he has to know someone else in the league who can press on the deadbeat owners.  

 

I had a situation in my league years ago where one owner refused to pay after the season.  He refused to take my calls or return texts.  I ended up paying what he owed out of my own pocket because the league winners expected what was promised to them and as commissioner I owed them what was promised.  

 

I'm just disappointed that neither of these brothers are stepping up to resolve this.

[Montana is da Man 3,071]

Keep his winnings until you get yours. 

 

Has he been asking you for the money?

[char92474 11]

He told me to put it towards his entry fee next year, but I think he is severely underestimating how much he won.

 

He won $550 and the entry fee is only $170 so I assume he doesn't realize how much he won. 

[Dolphin_Akie 443]

Yeah I'd hold onto it until you get paid from the other league and get Bob to sort it seeing as they are his friends. Sounds like youre not out of pocket currently as only 3 owners owe $100 each and you have $550. 

 

This is another story of how you need a strong constitution that states if you dont pay your dues on time (2-3 weeks before the draft) then you will be replaced, no ifs no buts.

[char92474 11]

I got screwed in the league I run before.  Most of the people paid up front, but there were a few that didn't pay until the season ended.  I didn't care because we charge for transactions so I needed to collect after the season anyways.

 

One guy was always a pain to collect from but eventually he'd pay me.  Then one year he kept putting me off and eventually stopped answering my calls.  I ended up paying his portion out of my pocket.

[kdko 454]

Like others said, I think at this point you need to hold his payment for ransom.  To me it sounds like the effort isn't worth it to him, moreso than he doesn't realize how much he's won.  At least you won't be completely out of your $650 haha.  If you give him his winnings he'll never muster the motivation to track down the money from the other owners.

[malta69 5]

I def hold he payment owed....not a D move at all and Id think your boy would completely understand the situation i,e, placing shoe on the other foot.

 

BTW love how everyone always thinks its SO easy to find replacement owners in local leagues (i,e, the pay before draft rule)....if these guys were such reliable owners, chances are you would have included them on the league already! Generally, you're just swapping out one deadbeat for another

 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by malta69

[CowboysDiehard 534]

9 hours ago, malta69 said:

I def hold he payment owed....not a D move at all and Id think your boy would completely understand the situation i,e, placing shoe on the other foot.

 

BTW love how everyone always thinks its SO easy to find replacement owners in local leagues (i,e, the pay before draft rule)....if these guys were such reliable owners, chances are you would have included them on the league already! Generally, you're just swapping out one deadbeat for another

 

 

 

I agree with this.  Two recent owners brought in by one of our long term guys failed to pay at the draft in separate seasons.  I chased them all year long before dumping them.  Now the league is no longer local, as I reach out to people that I know who live in other states.  Draft is now online (not as much fun, but easier to schedule).  Owners have to send my their entry fee by the conclusion of games on week one or they won't be able to make trades or add drops until I see the money.  This strategy isn't perfect, but as stated, it's also very difficult to find last minute adds who want to join a 'dynasty lite' (three keepers) league.

[char92474 11]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

The commissioner texted me today and said everyone finally paid and I'll get my money tomorrow.

 

I suggest a new rule for next year.  Everyone needs to pay three weeks before the draft.  If you aren't paid by the deadline, you are out and we'll find a replacement.

 

It won't be super easy to find replacements, I'm just hoping the fear of getting kicked out will be enough to motivate to pay.

[Inziladun 84]

If you ever need a stand in for your league, PM me.

[GangGreenLantern 244]

As a commish, and someone who plays in 3 money leagues I would definitely hold out that money since it's BOB's responsibility to collect the money ahead of time. HIS LEAGUE owes you, and since you owe him money it's only right to hold his earnings until you get yours. Otherwise that money is yours from the money HE should be paying you from his league. 

 

1 MAJOR way to avoid this is collect all money due BEFORE the season starts. I HAVE ALWAYS done this. If a team isn't paid in FULL by week 1 there team is locked and cannot make any transactions (pickups, drops, lineup changes etc). 99% of the time this works, and people pay (also depends on the people you have join). I always go with people I know, or have dealt with before. 

 

I did have an Issue this season where one guy did not pay. Week 4 came and he still did not pay, and I told him I will not tolerate that kind of owner in my league, and I kicked him out. I paid the extra entry fee for him, and had someone else join to make lineup changes, pickups etc, and will be already replaced that owner for 2018. You should not have to track people down at all for entry fees. Set a deadline and stand by it. 

[stevegrab 1,101]

On 1/25/2018 at 8:29 AM, GangGreenLantern said:

As a commish, and someone who plays in 3 money leagues I would definitely hold out that money since it's BOB's responsibility to collect the money ahead of time. HIS LEAGUE owes you, and since you owe him money it's only right to hold his earnings until you get yours. Otherwise that money is yours from the money HE should be paying you from his league. 

 

1 MAJOR way to avoid this is collect all money due BEFORE the season starts. I HAVE ALWAYS done this. If a team isn't paid in FULL by week 1 there team is locked and cannot make any transactions (pickups, drops, lineup changes etc). 99% of the time this works, and people pay (also depends on the people you have join). I always go with people I know, or have dealt with before. 

 

I did have an Issue this season where one guy did not pay. Week 4 came and he still did not pay, and I told him I will not tolerate that kind of owner in my league, and I kicked him out. I paid the extra entry fee for him, and had someone else join to make lineup changes, pickups etc, and will be already replaced that owner for 2018. You should not have to track people down at all for entry fees. Set a deadline and stand by it. 

 

Yep that is a good way to do it, we had one owner who owed a small amount at the end of a season one year, he had the gall to tell the commish "its just $25 (was under $50 for sure), what's the big deal?"  Well the deal is the winning owners were already paid, the commish took that money out of his own account to do it on time. SO FRIGGIN PAY UP.

After that my mild mannered co-commish had enough, and instituted increasing penalties for not paying on time, locking rosters and such. 

 

I don't care if the fee is $20 or $2000, you committed to the league, showed up expecting to draft a team, so bring the money with you. 

[indyrckstar 41]

That league sounds sketchy.  I would never be part of any league with any of the teams that didn't pay.  Look for a new group.   

 

As a commissioner in my league, we have no issues of collecting money.  Also, don't use checks.  With technology today, my group uses Venmo or Google Pay.  It's instant pay transaction without having to wait on a check being mailed out.