BeeR Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 5 hours ago, LordOpie said: I don't think OBJ is that much better than Cooks, so good for LAR. Also, good for Cooks as I think he'll be used more in LA. And congrats to Taz I think lmao. This is why NE is in the SB year after year while taking advantage of teams with less of a clue who aren't. Cooks was a massive disappointment in NE and hardly worth a first rounder. Comparing him to OBJ is hilarious. Speaking of which Pats once again laugh all the way to the bank. Sure he's nice to have but he wasn't worth that first rounder. If (I'd say when) they don't win the SB with this "all in" strat, they're going to look quite stupid doing this deal. Ballard is a retard for being so quiet in free agency, but at least he gained some good draft picks vs losing them w/o fair value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdko Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, BeeR said: I think lmao. This is why NE is in the SB year after year while taking advantage of teams with less of a clue who aren't. Cooks was a massive disappointment in NE and hardly worth a first rounder. Comparing him to OBJ is hilarious. Speaking of which Pats once again laugh all the way to the bank. Sure he's nice to have but he wasn't worth that first rounder. If (I'd say when) they don't win the SB with this "all in" strat, they're going to look quite stupid doing this deal. Ballard is a retard for being so quiet in free agency, but at least he gained some good draft picks vs losing them w/o fair value. How was he a disappointment? He had the 4th highest YPC of WR's with over 100 targets, exceeded 1,000 yards, and did what he needed to do. The Patriots system just spreads it around a lot. Moss had a season in NE that statistically resembled Cooks. The second part of your statement is true, the Pats are laughing all the way to the bank. They traded a first round pick, got Cooks at a good price, and are shipping him off before paying the man. That doesn't mean that Cooks was a disappointment. And I looked it up, Cooks catch % > OBJ catch %. For every amazing one handed catch OBJ makes, there's the drop catch in the NFC Wild Card game that lost them the game .... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) Massive disappointment was an exaggeration, but easily a disappointment....not the go-to guy they expected when they paid a 1st rounder for him. You don't fry a 1st round pick on a WR for 65-1000-7. Not on this team. How is that NOT a disappointment? About half his games he had 4 or less catches and never more than 6. His (underwhelming) stats were were inflated by the occasional long ball. He basically was not a true go-to guy, not a consistently reliable target on a team where he had everything he could possibly want to be built for major success...stud QB, the best of coaches, modest competition, etc etc. Again, if that isn't true, why do you think NE is dumping him? They have a lot of "gee I hope this guy works out this year" WRs; if he was all that, they'd pay him and keep him. Edited April 4, 2018 by BeeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Brown Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 I think there is enough resume, statistically and eye test wise, that shows Beckham has been elite and a solid tier above Cooks. But, it's hard to argue with what the Rams are doing, kind of. It seems like an all out strategy for 2018. If Goff plays well again this season, he will be in line for a massive contract the following season and major cap restructure will need to happen. Of course, if the season pays off with a SB win, then it really doesn't matter. The Rams were already good before acquiring Suh and Cooks. They should be the amongst the favorites to win the SB. But, I can't help but remember the 2000 Redskins and 2011 Eagles "Dream Teams" and how things worked out for them after beefing up on the free agent market. Despite the Rams impressive roster talent, it's still largely a body of management, coaching, and players with one winning season and no playoff success. The potential for disappointment with longer term salary cap consequences seems plausible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 decent move here by the pats IMO 1 year left on his deal now they get to grab someone who they can control for years at less money(whether receiver or another position) I thought cooks started to come on late and looked like more of a fit....BUT...I remember after one of the last few regular season games troy brown said in a post game show he thought cooks just looked like he didn't fit and that he didn't think he would be back with the team.....looks like he was right I like Christian kirk a lot...and I know the pats are taking a hard look...he can also return kicks...although they did get Patterson for that....kirk reminds me a lot of golden tate...the pats aren't really in dire need of a slot guy, which kirk is, but I just really like him and think they can find a way to make it work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazinib1 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Whatever the case may be, the Rams are replacing their own disappointment in Sammy Watkins. The game I went to vs. the Seahawks, I witnessed Sammy's laziness first hand. He gave up on routes and never once stretched out for the ball, always giving up when it was clear he could have stretched out and made a play for the ball. I'm not the only one who saw this throughout the season. Goodbye Watkins and hello Cooks. A late first rounder for a 24yr old field stretcher? Yeah, I'll take that deal and we got a 4th to help address the LB position. The Rams system is a MUCH better fit for Cooks than the one he dealt with in NE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 2 hours ago, tazinib1 said: Whatever the case may be, the Rams are replacing their own disappointment in Sammy Watkins. The game I went to vs. the Seahawks, I witnessed Sammy's laziness first hand. He gave up on routes and never once stretched out for the ball, always giving up when it was clear he could have stretched out and made a play for the ball. I'm not the only one who saw this throughout the season. Goodbye Watkins and hello Cooks. A late first rounder for a 24yr old field stretcher? Yeah, I'll take that deal and we got a 4th to help address the LB position. The Rams system is a MUCH better fit for Cooks than the one he dealt with in NE. How so? If you're saying they'll pepper him with more targets then ok sure, but hard to argue how he was used since the team went to the SB. Would also say targeting him more may actually not work well for him. He was only 15 targets off his career high last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, LordOpie said: to be clear, when I say that OBJ isn't that much better than Cooks, I'm talking value. Is OBJ really worth twice as much draft compensation for the trade and then twice as much of a contract? I think NYG are delusional to think a team will pay that much, both for trade and contract. the total value for a team to land OBJ on a long-term deal is what gets GMs fired. WRs are not that much of a difference maker. You love hot takes don't ya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdko Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 hour ago, LordOpie said: to be clear, when I say that OBJ isn't that much better than Cooks, I'm talking value. Is OBJ really worth twice as much draft compensation for the trade and then twice as much of a contract? +1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 4 hours ago, tazinib1 said: The Rams system is a MUCH better fit for Cooks than the one he dealt with in NE. 1 hour ago, Def. said: How so? If you're saying they'll pepper him with more targets then ok sure, but hard to argue how he was used since the team went to the SB. Would also say targeting him more may actually not work well for him. He was only 15 targets off his career high last year. Local radio (here in SoCal) did bring this up how New England is more of a horizontal passing game - lot of quick looks, slants, crosses, etc. which is not Cooks game. As noted in other posts, you can;t argue with the success of NE or Cooks still having a decent year, but as far as fit he was not the type of WR that NE features in their offense. Alternatively, the Rams have a bit more of a stretch the field in their passing game to ideally open up some stuff for Gurley as well. Cooks better fits the mold of the outside WR that keeps defenses honest and can keep a safety out of the box as they need to provide over the top protection because of his knack with the deep ball. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, Big Country said: Local radio (here in SoCal) did bring this up how New England is more of a horizontal passing game - lot of quick looks, slants, crosses, etc. which is not Cooks game. As noted in other posts, you can;t argue with the success of NE or Cooks still having a decent year, but as far as fit he was not the type of WR that NE features in their offense. Alternatively, the Rams have a bit more of a stretch the field in their passing game to ideally open up some stuff for Gurley as well. Cooks better fits the mold of the outside WR that keeps defenses honest and can keep a safety out of the box as they need to provide over the top protection because of his knack with the deep ball. Good breakdown thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 9 minutes ago, Big Country said: Local radio (here in SoCal) did bring this up how New England is more of a horizontal passing game - lot of quick looks, slants, crosses, etc. which is not Cooks game. As noted in other posts, you can;t argue with the success of NE or Cooks still having a decent year, but as far as fit he was not the type of WR that NE features in their offense. Alternatively, the Rams have a bit more of a stretch the field in their passing game to ideally open up some stuff for Gurley as well. Cooks better fits the mold of the outside WR that keeps defenses honest and can keep a safety out of the box as they need to provide over the top protection because of his knack with the deep ball. I think there was talk of this when Cooks first went to NEP, but everyone kept pointing to Moss' success there as some kind of indicator that Cooks would excel too. I partially bought into the hype, drafting Cooks in a redraft. Hoped for the huge numbers but they just didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 25 minutes ago, darin3 said: I think there was talk of this when Cooks first went to NEP, but everyone kept pointing to Moss' success there as some kind of indicator that Cooks would excel too. I partially bought into the hype, drafting Cooks in a redraft. Hoped for the huge numbers but they just didn't happen. IMO, part of this is the evolution, or really the aging, of Brady. When Moss was there he had the arm strength to really air it out, plus Moss was freakish in his ability to go get the ball even over 2 or 3 defenders. Now, he (Brady) can still air it out on occasion, but Brady's strength is how quickly he is able to read defenses, find the gap and make the decision to squeeze the ball into tight spaces for his WRs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Big Country said: IMO, part of this is the evolution, or really the aging, of Brady. When Moss was there he had the arm strength to really air it out, plus Moss was freakish in his ability to go get the ball even over 2 or 3 defenders. Now, he (Brady) can still air it out on occasion, but Brady's strength is how quickly he is able to read defenses, find the gap and make the decision to squeeze the ball into tight spaces for his WRs. cooks was beating dbs. i saw many long PIs called against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) Looks like the Rams are going to try getting Cooks inked long-term before the season. Quote NFL Network's Steve Wyche reports the Rams plan to sign contract-year WR Brandin Cooks to an extension prior to the season. Jared Goff and Cooks have been training together this offseason and share the same agent, so perhaps there have already been discussions with Cooks' representation. He's a West Coast guy who grew up in Stockton, Cali. and played his college ball at Oregon State. Cooks won't come cheap, however, and should command around the $16 million per year Sammy Watkins got. But all signs point to the two sides hammering out a deal after the Rams gave up a first-rounder. Source: Steve Wyche on Twitter Apr 4 - 12:46 PM Edited April 4, 2018 by darin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Brady has never looked good throwing the ball deep. 2007 was an outlier, mainly because of amazing chemistry between Brady and Moss. It’s really never been a strong suit. To his credit, he keeps trying and works to improve it yearly. i don’t see the loss of Cooks as being particularly devastating to that offense. Edelman, Hogan, Gronk and White already know the offense inside and out. Burkhead is back. And there’s still a pile of potential in Dorsett, Patterson, Mitchell, and Britt. I think this was a very smart move. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said: Brady has never looked good throwing the ball deep. 2007 was an outlier, mainly because of amazing chemistry between Brady and Moss. It’s really never been a strong suit. To his credit, he keeps trying and works to improve it yearly. i don’t see the loss of Cooks as being particularly devastating to that offense. Edelman, Hogan, Gronk and White already know the offense inside and out. Burkhead is back. And there’s still a pile of potential in Dorsett, Patterson, Mitchell, and Britt. I think this was a very smart move. I am hoping Dorsett emerges from that group. Any local chatter about him at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caveman_Nick Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Very quiet. Truth be told, the local sports media is continuing to try and vulture on perceived discord in the organization. Everything that’s discussed goes through that filter :oldrolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 19 hours ago, DMD said: Pats are without their top 2 WR from last year. Either they are not done trading or they think Edelman is going to stay healthy and have a career year. They still have Gronk, their true top receiver. Cooks was their #1 last year, but was only there because they lost Edelman for the season, he put up 65-1082-7 which is in line with the best years Edelman has had in NE (2013/14/16 when he didn't miss a lot of games). Not sure why he'd need to put up career numbers. The 2nd best NE WR last year was Amendola with 61-659-2, I think they can get that from Hogan/Mitchell and the guys they've signed already, Hogan alone had 34-439-5 on about 60% of the targets that Amendola had, if he got the same targets he can ,match or eclipse those numbers. So I guess you'd be right that they do expect Edelman to stay healthy, which he was for most of the 2013-16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said: Very quiet. Truth be told, the local sports media is continuing to try and vulture on perceived discord in the organization. Everything that’s discussed goes through that filter :oldrolleyes: Ah yes the TMZ Sports style, I've seen plenty of it from CLE media, particularly with Cavs stories always a good drama angle with LeBron on your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Bier Meister said: cooks was beating dbs. i saw many long PIs called against him. Which speaks exactly to my point - he may have been beating DBs, but Brady just doesn't necessarily have the arm strength he once did to get the ball to him. Brady is not going anywhere, so if the WR does not complement him, it makes sense to move on from the WR. Interestingly, I was able to find the stats on defensive PI calls by targeted WR. - https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr For the season, Cooks drew 5 PI calls for 141 yards, which tied him as the #6 WR in terms of drawing PIs (with Thielen, Diggs, Bryant and Green) and #4 in yardage (behind Hopkins, Antonio and Marvin Jones) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, Big Country said: Which speaks exactly to my point - he may have been beating DBs, but Brady just doesn't necessarily have the arm strength he once did to get the ball to him. Brady is not going anywhere, so if the WR does not complement him, it makes sense to move on from the WR. Interestingly, I was able to find the stats on defensive PI calls by targeted WR. - https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr For the season, Cooks drew 5 PI calls for 141 yards, which tied him as the #6 WR in terms of drawing PIs (with Thielen, Diggs, Bryant and Green) and #4 in yardage (behind Hopkins, Antonio and Marvin Jones) yes... i was in agreement and supporting your point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bier Meister said: yes... i was in agreement and supporting your point But this is the internet - we're supposed to disagree and tear down each others points 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Big Country said: But this is the internet - we're supposed to disagree and tear down each others points in ff i have been reluctant to own (and rely upon) many nep players aside from brady because they spread it around and game plan/go with the hot hand. slot wr's, gronk, and rb's can rack up some nice ppr pts, but consistency can be a challenge. cooks had respectable #s for that offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever in debt to mo lewis Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 some stuff from tom curran about the trade...last paragraph most telling imo Cooks was good and, at 24, he’s bound to get better. But he wasn’t a seamless fit with the Patriots. He’s a vertical, downfield, outside-the-numbers receiver and the Patriots are not a vertical offense, they are a horizontal offense. Cooks was meant to be a complement for this team, a field-stretcher who would help take middle-of-the-field heat off of Julian Edelman and Rob Gronkowski. When Edelman got hurt, the Patriots’ 2017 offensive approach changed a bit. Nobody could replicate Edelman’s ability to uncover in short spaces so Brady was suddenly tasked with holding the ball a beat or two longer and throwing outside. And Brady took a ton of punishment in the early part of the season as a result. When more was asked of Cooks in terms of working the middle of the field, he and Brady had a hard time getting on the same wavelength. The Patriots’ offense is a nuanced one that relies on option routes and the ability to be almost telepathic. Cooks didn’t pick it up to Brady’s satisfaction and the frustration was sometimes apparent. It was a misfire to Cooks by Brady that led to the sideline dustup between Brady and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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