Quarantines and Handcuffs

[CowboysDiehard]

13 hours ago, stethant said:

I hope I'm wrong.

 

Me too, but my wife doesn't!

[1fastdoc]

On 6/24/2020 at 2:39 PM, millworkguy said:

No, you argued that the asymptomatic rate of 80% would result in all medical professionals out of their workplace for 14 days, I disagreed as 100% of all medical staff haven't caught this. So an 80% asymptomatic rate wouldn't equal 80% of the workforce. 

 

So your argument is that Seattle is seeing its second wave, and not a dip in numbers from lower testing, (as you, a doctor previously recommended mild symptoms not ger tested) or from testing the wrong groups of people/ or those who had milder cases just stayed home and never got tested.  while Texas is still seeing its 1st wave (I wasnt thinking on such a micro level) 

 

Honestly,  122,000 dead, and a doctor recommends not being tested,  unless your really in bad shape.  Go run your small business,  go infect your staff, co-workers,  their parents,  dont you have an oath to save people?

 

 I thought you where an otolaryngologist and not an infectious disease doctor. Most of the southern states numbers seem to be rising with their dis belief of this.  

 

You misinterpreted my post. This thread is about NFL players getting quarantined, not an encompassing discussion on Covid. I'm part of plenty of other groups for that. 

 

At no point did I recommend anything, let alone not testing. I stated that people in certain profession are not testing because the ramification is that a positive test means they can't work.  And we presently don't know how contagious an asymptotic individual is. The south has been very cavalier, which is why we have so many patients under 40 in our ICUs. 

 

Going back to the above, this is a FF football forum. I'm not here to debate anyone about a virus that we really don't understand well. You can find plenty of people on FB for that lunacy. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by 1fastdoc

[millworkguy]

8 hours ago, 1fastdoc said:

 

You misinterpreted my post. This thread is about NFL players getting quarantined, not an encompassing discussion on Covid. I'm part of plenty of other groups for that. 

 

At no point did I recommend anything, let alone not testing. 

 

Going back to the above, this is a FF football forum. I'm not here to debate anyone about a virus that we really don't understand well. You can find plenty of people on FB for that lunacy. 

 

No, i didn't.  You came in here almost 2 weeks ago banging your chest spewing out "its anticipated path" and the problem of testing asympotmatic people.  You then implied your an infectious disease doctor and now, you want to say this is a football forum, and not a place for Covid. Feel free to try and rewrite your own history, but your words are there for all to see.  You didn't have to do anything other then answer the OP, but you wanted to, and now 2 weeks later as the numbers in Tennessee have increased by 28% you attempt to belittle what you started, and backtrack on your own statements.  That Lunacy you spoke about doesn't only happen on FB, We just saw it happen here.  After being part of the problem, you want to walk away from the conversation, and pretend you where always on the side of caution.  

 

 

On 2020-06-17 at 12:06 PM, 1fastdoc said:

The real issue is that it's a CDC reportable disease. So, if you test positive you have to quarantine.  The fix for that in people with little to no symptoms is don't test.  

 

 Why do you feel the problem with Covid is that you have to quarantine if your positive?  as in your own words the solution, is to not be tested.

 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by millworkguy

[1fastdoc]

2 hours ago, millworkguy said:

 

No, i didn't.  You came in here almost 2 weeks ago banging your chest spewing out "its anticipated path" and the problem of testing asympotmatic people.  You then implied your an infectious disease doctor and now, you want to say this is a football forum, and not a place for Covid. Feel free to try and rewrite your own history, but your words are there for all to see.  You didn't have to do anything other then answer the OP, but you wanted to, and now 2 weeks later as the numbers in Tennessee have increased by 28% you attempt to belittle what you started, and backtrack on your own statements.  That Lunacy you spoke about doesn't only happen on FB, We just saw it happen here.  After being part of the problem, you want to walk away from the conversation, and pretend you where always on the side of caution.  

 

 

 

 Why do you feel the problem with Covid is that you have to quarantine if your positive?  as in your own words the solution, is to not be tested.

 

 

 

I deal with Covid pts almost daily and am asked questions every single day. My sources are large networks of physicians locally and globally. We were discussing the issue with Iranian MDs when they got hit well before the US (like China, many were ENT because of the OR). I know exactly how devastating this virus is am quite outspoken against those who take it lightly and suggest we should open up businesses with high population density. I never suggested I was ID. Having a close friend who is though, I'll add that they don't have any more info that those of us who work critical care have.  I am also one of the few surgeons testing all my nasal and oral patients who go to the OR. 

 

I'm not making recs, I'm pointing out a problem facing health care providers. The "fix" - quotes added to clarify, is to not test. THIS is the point I was trying to make regarding the NFL. It's a business. If you test asymptomatics and they're positive (which we don't even know what that really means!) then you lose players and lose games. The "solution" to the problem is not to expose it in the first place. If that's not clear to you by now then I give up. So to the initial issue, the NFL will probably keep it quiet and pull players who are actually sick, which they'll probably say is injury. 

 

Now, I clarified my background and position for you and anyone else that misinterpreted it. I'm curious, what are your credentials and first hand experience? 

Edited June 29, 2020 by 1fastdoc

[heehawks]

11 hours ago, 1fastdoc said:

 

I deal with Covid pts almost daily and am asked questions every single day. My sources are large networks of physicians locally and globally. We were discussing the issue with Iranian MDs when they got hit well before the US (like China, many were ENT because of the OR). I know exactly how devastating this virus is am quite outspoken against those who take it lightly and suggest we should open up businesses with high population density. I never suggested I was ID. Having a close friend who is though, I'll add that they don't have any more info that those of us who work critical care have.  I am also one of the few surgeons testing all my nasal and oral patients who go to the OR. 

 

I'm not making recs, I'm pointing out a problem facing health care providers. The "fix" - quotes added to clarify, is to not test. THIS is the point I was trying to make regarding the NFL. It's a business. If you test asymptomatics and they're positive (which we don't even know what that really means!) then you lose players and lose games. The "solution" to the problem is not to expose it in the first place. If that's not clear to you by now then I give up. So to the initial issue, the NFL will probably keep it quiet and pull players who are actually sick, which they'll probably say is injury. 

 

Now, I clarified my background and position for you and anyone else that misinterpreted it. I'm curious, what are your credentials and first hand experience? 

Aaaaand mic drop...

[millworkguy]

I never asked for your CV, i asked you several questions, and your sources as nothing have ever read has said we are part of a second wave,  Nor have i read, that an asymptomatic rate of 80% mean that 80% of all health care staff are infected (as you previously wrote) and we agreed that asymptomatic people can pass it onto others and cause them to be symptomatic. Please cite your sources, you haven't bothered to actually reply to me, you keep saying "I'm a doctor"  having conversations with friends and co-workers. I have those too,  Can you link something.  You asked how many Md's and Rn's are getting tested,and no-one recently you know has been positive,  I said plenty of testing where i am and unfortunately some positive results..  Also you said this is following a predictable path of prior corona viruses, which ones?  And if it has been so predictable, why hasn't it been stopped yet?  And why did the states open back up so early.  How can wearing a mask be against your rights, but everyone respects a sign saying "no shirt, no shoes no service".  

 

I think i know what your trying to say, but honestly still shocked that you can sit here and say you have been involved with this since before it hit the shores of the united states and since we don't know what asymptomatic means (and by that i take it, you are saying, you don't know how well they transmit the disease, if they actually produce antibodies or how long they stay in the system for) the "fix" for the NFL is to just not test, as we did agree, that asymptomatic people can pass it to others, and those who get it, may be symptomatic that isn't a "fix" is it. As those asymptomatic people may cause more and more symptomatic cases.

 

We are seeing a 5% infection rate in testing on NHL and NBA players, ( approx 300 of each tested)

 

     I'm asking questions, of your posts, and you said this is a FF forum and not here to debate anyone, and that your apart of plenty of other groups to discuss covid.  honestly if you can't be bothered to answer a few questions, about what you said why post.

 

Also why is your post in 2 different fonts?

[Big Country]

Maybe I am misreading, but pretty sure the "fix" is being said sarcastically, which is why it is in quotes. Essentially if the NFL wants to have a season, they will need to put their head in the sand and skip the testing of players, as if there are no tests performed, there are no positive cases, thus no need to quarantine or not play.

[DMD]

38 minutes ago, Big Country said:

Maybe I am misreading, but pretty sure the "fix" is being said sarcastically, which is why it is in quotes. Essentially if the NFL wants to have a season, they will need to put their head in the sand and skip the testing of players, as if there are no tests performed, there are no positive cases, thus no need to quarantine or not play.

[CowboysDiehard]

2 hours ago, Big Country said:

Maybe I am misreading, but pretty sure the "fix" is being said sarcastically, which is why it is in quotes. Essentially if the NFL wants to have a season, they will need to put their head in the sand and skip the testing of players, as if there are no tests performed, there are no positive cases, thus no need to quarantine or not play.

 

I agree it's the only way.  Heck....baseball has outlawed SPITTING.  If there is one game where you can mostly 'distance' on the field, that's the one, and several players are now saying they will not play for 'health concerns'.  The NFL has spit, blood, and sweat splashed around via physical contact on every play.  Not sure how we are even talking about a season at this point.

[Big Country]

2 hours ago, DMD said:

 

I think this meme would be even funnier if we changed the picture to a certain fantasy football prognosticator with a mohawk.......

[DMD]

18 minutes ago, Big Country said:

 

I think this meme would be even funnier if we changed the picture to a certain fantasy football prognosticator with a mohawk.......

 

I cannot find that picture. I want that picture - good times. 

[Big Country]

1 hour ago, DMD said:

 

I cannot find that picture. I want that picture - good times. 

 

I just tried searching the archives and can't find it as I don't recall what year your did Mystery Huddler, plus the majority of links to the pictures are no longer working.

 

But I am sure someone has that picture

 

[Big John]

1 hour ago, Big Country said:

 

I just tried searching the archives and can't find it as I don't recall what year your did Mystery Huddler, plus the majority of links to the pictures are no longer working.

 

But I am sure someone has that picture

 

That would be AtomicCEO if he was still around.

[1fastdoc]

22 hours ago, Big Country said:

Maybe I am misreading, but pretty sure the "fix" is being said sarcastically, which is why it is in quotes. Essentially if the NFL wants to have a season, they will need to put their head in the sand and skip the testing of players, as if there are no tests performed, there are no positive cases, thus no need to quarantine or not play.

 

Thank you.  I thought it was clear to everyone.  Apparently not.

 

Millworkguy, you seem eager to have a debate over something.  My original post added the medical side of the dilemma to demonstrate why I think the NFL will avoid testing, which was the whole point of the thread.  I could have just said that I don't think we'll lose a swath of players to Covid but that opinion is rather useless without some reason as to why.  At no point did I say "I'm a doctor" and implied that you need to take what I say as gold.  I've been working through the pandemic since day one and I gave some background as to why I know what I do and have certain opinions.  If you don't believe me, okay, not my problem.  Now, to be crystal clear, I play FF for fun.  My entire day is consumed by medicine and I hop on this board in between cases or at night for a little break from that reality.  What I typed in the past was quick.  I have no reason to invest the time to cite sources to convince you of anything.  

 

As to why the font is different sizes, I'm guessing it was because I was in an OR typing on my phone and probably swiped by accident.  I didn't notice until after it posted.  

 

I've seen a lot of people with very strong opinions on Covid since this began.  All of the docs I know are cautious and understand we're dealing with a poorly understood entity in regards to how it affects different individuals.  The new mutation is particularly concerning (G614 or D614G if you want to read about it).  Those with the strongest opinions frequently have little if any medical background.  So I'll ask you again, what's your educational and medical background and what experience do you have with this disease?

[Zooty]

On 7/1/2020 at 2:03 PM, 1fastdoc said:

 

 

 

As to why the font is different sizes, I'm guessing it was because I was in an OR typing on my phone and probably swiped by accident.  I didn't notice until after it posted.  

 

 

 

You were probably just lightheaded from lack of oxygen and breathing in your own CO2 from wearing a mask.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

THAT WAS A JOKE

 

[stevegrab]

On 6/16/2020 at 8:16 AM, CowboysDiehard said:

Kidding aside, the basic question for commissioners out there is 'Are you planning any special IR allowances (whether supported or not by a provider), and if so, what do they look like?'

I just asked my co-commish about a week ago (a month after your post) if he thought we should consider any changes, or start a dialogue with owners, or anything. His response "Nope I'm pretty confident things will get back to normal when the hype dies down, and the season will go as planned."      

[stevegrab]

On 6/17/2020 at 12:06 PM, 1fastdoc said:

While we are experiencing a second, anticipated bump, the mortality rate will likely decline.  But it is still in the 1-2% range of symptomatic individuals.  The problem we have is we're testing asymptomatics.  We have no comparable data for that -- we don't test asymptomatics for the flu.  So we don't know what an asymptomatic positive means.  In reality, they are probably having mild unrecognized sx such as fatigue, muscle aches, reduced stamina but don't appreciate it.

 

The virus will likely follow the path of prior coronaviruses and fade out over the course of the year.  The best way to control it is to test everybody and quarantine the positives until it dies out.  The real issue is that it's a CDC reportable disease. So, if you test positive you have to quarantine.  The fix for that in people with little to no symptoms is don't test.  For business owners, and other true essentials (who need to work to keep their business afloat) it's in their best interest to avoid that swab.  This goes for athletes as well.  From a social moral standpoint they should test.  But from a business standpoint, it's not in their best interest.  My guess is they'll avoid testing unless someone has severe sx and if they do test, they'll try to keep it quiet and claim injury.

 

To go back to the OP, in our dynasty league I'm not adding additional IR spots.  I don't expect to lose many players, if any, to the virus.

 

NEVERMIND IF IT WAS ALL A JOKE, BUT REALIZE PEOPLE POST THIS STUFF FOR REAL AND MEAN IT, NO WAY TO KNOW ITS SARCASM.

 

Your GUESS is that the NFL won't be testing players?  Seriously?  Even guessing that 6 weeks ago (you repeated it 2 weeks later) seems completely irrational.

 

I won't belabor the point after reading your other posts in this thread, including how you tried to wiggle out  of claiming you were an infectious disease expert after you wrote "I, along with my Infectious Disease colleagues don't put much credence into the notion of an asymptomatic infection."  

 

Yes this is a fantasy football forum, so maybe you shouldn't be spreading your "informed" BS and stick to having the fun you come here for. 

 

PS I'm not a doctor, I have no medical training, but I also don't need that to recognize complete BS. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by stevegrab

[millworkguy]

I think we decided he was trying to be sarcastic 

[stevegrab]

1 minute ago, millworkguy said:

I think we decided he was trying to be sarcastic 

 

OK I kind of wondered about that, but had already done all the    I see posts online that act like the "virus is a hoax" people and its impossible to tell it is sarcasm because people actually say those things seriously. 

[purplemonster]

On 6/30/2020 at 12:46 PM, CowboysDiehard said:

 

I agree it's the only way.  Heck....baseball has outlawed SPITTING.  If there is one game where you can mostly 'distance' on the field, that's the one, and several players are now saying they will not play for 'health concerns'.  The NFL has spit, blood, and sweat splashed around via physical contact on every play.  Not sure how we are even talking about a season at this point.

I tend to agree. I'm trying to figure out how you're going to get 80 guys in close contact playing football games and not having it spread around the team. Baseball has less players more distancing and they already have a problem. I'm no prognosticator I just having trouble figuring out how this is going to work. I hope I am wrong

[stevegrab]

On 7/30/2020 at 4:40 AM, purplemonster said:

I tend to agree. I'm trying to figure out how you're going to get 80 guys in close contact playing football games and not having it spread around the team. Baseball has less players more distancing and they already have a problem. I'm no prognosticator I just having trouble figuring out how this is going to work. I hope I am wrong

 

You avoid the spread by not getting it in the first place, that is why players need 3 negative tests just to enter the team facility. There are also supposed to be daily tests for the first couple of weeks once in camp. But beyond that, when they start testing less frequently, players/staff/etc can be there for a day or two spreading it. The key is to avoid it ever entering the facility. Keeping the entire team isolated from the community (that includes family and friends) for most of the season would also help. They would still travel and play other teams, stay in some hotel on the road, ride a bus from place to place, but it would help. 

[1fastdoc]

On 7/29/2020 at 4:27 PM, stevegrab said:

 

NEVERMIND IF IT WAS ALL A JOKE, BUT REALIZE PEOPLE POST THIS STUFF FOR REAL AND MEAN IT, NO WAY TO KNOW ITS SARCASM.

 

Your GUESS is that the NFL won't be testing players?  Seriously?  Even guessing that 6 weeks ago (you repeated it 2 weeks later) seems completely irrational.

 

I won't belabor the point after reading your other posts in this thread, including how you tried to wiggle out  of claiming you were an infectious disease expert after you wrote "I, along with my Infectious Disease colleagues don't put much credence into the notion of an asymptomatic infection."  

 

Yes this is a fantasy football forum, so maybe you shouldn't be spreading your "informed" BS and stick to having the fun you come here for. 

 

PS I'm not a doctor, I have no medical training, but I also don't need that to recognize complete BS. 

 

I popped back to mention that the IR issue may have to be a reality now that players can opt out as of last week.  As a commish I'm not looking forward to managing our league this year.  Probably going to reduce the buy in dramatically.

 

But since you felt the need to chime in, I'll respond.  I'm not joking about a damn thing.  In TN the number of tests varies heavily by county, mostly due to the number of residents.  But, some of the more affluent counties have unusually low numbers of Covid positive results.  Why?  People avoid getting tested. In Davidson county (Nashville) the Mayor forced businesses to close but the Gov relaxed restrictions and has allowed the counties to determine their fate.  The result?  Covid numbers are exploding.  The way to stop the spread it to test everyone.  But you're going to find many that refuse.  They don't want to compromise their businesses.  Bars in Nashville are closed.  Bars in surrounding counties are going strong.  Guess where all the Nashville residents are hanging out.  It's infuriating because I have friends in that industry who are being forced to choose between taking risks or going out of business.  

 

Regarding the quote, let me expand: I, along with my ID, Pulmonary, Critical Care, Internal Medicine and other ENT colleagues don't put much credence into asymptomatic infection.  Does that help?  I specified ID because they're at the forefront of developing information, which evolves daily with a novel pathogen.  I'm back operating regularly and I will not allow a patient into the OR without a Covid negative test.  We've learned a lot more about the asymptomatic issue but, as you stated, this isn't the forum for that.

 

As for FF, hey, if they're testing that's awesome and it's the right thing to do.  Big Country paraphrased my sentiment well on 6/30/20 - to have a season the NFL would have to ignore the issue.  Now, what exactly is the complete BS to which you refer?  

Edited August 3, 2020 by 1fastdoc