Dcat Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 (edited) High stakes league. 12 teams play through week 12. league playoffs are weeks 13 & 14. Winner gets $1,000 and 2nd gets $500. Weeks 14, 15, & 16 is also the $300,000 final. 1st and 2nd place teams automatically are in. FAAB is $1,000. I am in 5th place at 6-4 and also 5th in points. Playoffs go to 4 teams based on Total points, highest W-L, next in total points, next in W-L. Ahead of me are a 7-3 and three other 6-4 teams. I have more points than the 7-3 team, but fewer than the other 6-4 teams. Obviously I need a win. The 7-3 team is playing one of the other 6-4 teams. I am playing a 3-7 team, that at the moment doesn't have a QB and therein lies the issue. He blew almost all his FAAB last night picking up Winston. His other QBs are Josh Allen (Bye) and Daniel Jones (Bye). He dropped Dalton to get Winston and now he has just $14 in FAAB left and no QB for this week. I have a few hundred in FAAB. FAAB ends week 13. there is another run of waivers tonight and a final one on Saturday. these are the available QBs for him who are starting in week 11: Taysom Hill, Rivers, Mayfield, Luton, Flacco, Alex Smith. Again, he has $14 left in FAAB. I have more than enough to last thru week 13 when FAAB ends. I have three separate $15 bids on Hill, Rivers and Mayfield (dropping Cousins, Pope and Lamar miller) so he is prevented there, leaving him with only Luton, Flacco and Alex Smith. If for some reason he doesn't grab any of those 3 tonight, I can eliminate any of them in the Saturday waivers doing the same thing. And he can't get Dlton back until next week. I've been playing for over 20 years and have never done anything like this but my opponent set it up perfectly. Of course, if there is any justice in the world, he will beat me without any functioning QB. The rest of his team is solid (Chubb, Sanders at RB). thoughts? Edited November 20, 2020 by Dcat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, Dcat said: thoughts Since it's a money league it's fine. That's exactly why you don't blow your FAAB early on. It's a smart move on your behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 My first thought is that it seems kind of shady to do so, and if I were your opponent (or your leaguemate in general), I'd be less than impressed. So, you are going to drop the first three QB's to pick up the second set of three? That seems like player "churning" to me. Maybe not technically against the rules, but frowned upon in most leagues I'm in. Many leagues won't let you drop a player in the same week that you acquire them, for that exact reason. My second thought is that you're playing a team that is 3-7, and should be more worried about setting your team up for contingencies (given that FA bidding ends in two weeks) than your opponent's lineup. Does spending $90 leave you with enough $$ to make a move or two in the next two weeks if needed? I don't know.... Feels like you're playing not to lose (to somebody who's 3-7), rather than playing to win. That usually comes back to bite a person, at least in theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 That is the FAAB version of waiver-wire churning. I would call it unethical/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 It's churning and would be considered pretty bush league, IMO. He's 3-7, you will probably beat him even if he has one of those junky QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heehawks Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) I am going to have to respectfully disagree with a few of the posters who say it is unethical. My long time local has a very long history of picking up players to block other dudes. It is a game after all and when the opportunity arises, we all love to stick it to our buddies. It is an acceptable strategy in our league that has been used every year since we started 28 years ago. As such, I have no problem with you playing the game and making moves to block your opponent, especially if you have the $ to do so and save yourself enough for later. Edited November 21, 2020 by heehawks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Pick up Rivers and Smith. Let him sort thru the rest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 There's a FAAB for a reason. It's part of the strategy, ESPECIALLY in a money league. There's absolutely nothing unethical at all there, it's part of the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Some people are debating different issues. There's a difference between blocking and churning, but this Is both. The fact that you're asking if it's unethical should answer your question. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Gopher said: My first thought is that it seems kind of shady to do so, and if I were your opponent (or your leaguemate in general), I'd be less than impressed. So, you are going to drop the first three QB's to pick up the second set of three? That seems like player "churning" to me. Maybe not technically against the rules, but frowned upon in most leagues I'm in. Many leagues won't let you drop a player in the same week that you acquire them, for that exact reason. My second thought is that you're playing a team that is 3-7, and should be more worried about setting your team up for contingencies (given that FA bidding ends in two weeks) than your opponent's lineup. Does spending $90 leave you with enough $$ to make a move or two in the next two weeks if needed? I don't know.... Feels like you're playing not to lose (to somebody who's 3-7), rather than playing to win. That usually comes back to bite a person, at least in theory. You see, I feel pretty much as you do. It is shady, nasty, evil and desperate. And it is completely within the rules of this $250 buy in league as far as I can read the rules. This is not a local league among friends. It is a public high stakes league with a set of rules and ultimately a $300,000 grand prize conducted on a major fantasy sports site. Ask Mr. Muto about it. In the private leagues I play in and commish, we and I would never allow it. But this is different. (Conveniently) As for setting up my team for possible playoffs, this is a 20 player roster so there is little out there on the waiver wire and for what is there, I'm fine with FAAB, having about the same or more than most. There are only 2 weeks left for FAAB. Have to make sure you have backup kicker, QB, a pair of defenses maybe, etc for playoffs. Check. No problem. I can still do all that and pull this robbery off. I just want that win, being behind tied with three teams and behind by one game of the leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 51 minutes ago, heehawks said: I am going to have to respectfully disagree with a few of the posters who say it is unethical. My long time local has a very long history of picking up players to block other dudes. It is a game after all and when the opportunity arises, we all love to stick it to our buddies. It is an acceptable strategy in our league that has been used every year since we started 28 years ago. As such, I have no problem with you playing the game and making moves to block your opponent, especially if you have the $ to do so and save yourself enough for later. To add to that, in this case, these are not buddies. These are all strangers on a fantasy sports betting site. There's no love or loyalty or bonding there. I'm going to read the damned rules again before I do this. I didn't see any no-churning rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 1 hour ago, darin3 said: It's churning and would be considered pretty bush league, IMO. He's 3-7, you will probably beat him even if he has one of those junky QBs. Probably. Nervous about his Chubb-Sanders duo. Better than my Elliott-Davis duo. My WR's and flexes are a little better than his I think. It's close. You never know with Lamar Jackson. Maybe those junky ones come close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, Shaft said: Some people are debating different issues. There's a difference between blocking and churning, but this Is both. The fact that you're asking if it's unethical should answer your question. Why doesn't RTSports deal with it in their rules? It's not a league among friends. It's a huge contest with 4,800 teams in 400 12-team leagues. The rules allow it. Just don't try it in my private leagues because you're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Proud Mary keeps on churnin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, loaf said: Proud Mary keeps on churnin Big wheels keep on turning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Big stakes and if it's not against the rules, you do what you need to, to get as close as you can to guarantee the win. You're not trying to make friends here, who cares how any of them feel. You're trying to win money for your pocket, for your family and you played the system well, leaving you with more money then your opponent to block him from making his team better. Block him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heehawks Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) I guess I don't quite see the difference between blocking and churning. Is churning making multiple moves to block vs just one player? Also, I get its a public high stakes league, but if there is nothing in the rules that specifically calls it out, I see no reason to go right ahead and do it. Edited November 21, 2020 by heehawks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Blocking is perfectly acceptable and what you should absolutely do from a strategic perspective (assuming it leaves you enough to make other needed moves like rostering a second kicker for the playoffs when rosters are locked - trust me you need to do this) Churning is generally frowned upon and most leagues have (or should have) rules that prevent it, but most of the high stakes leagues don't, largely because their is a cost (in FAAB) for every move, and managing your FA balance is a pretty big part of the strategy in this larger public leagues with the big payouts. It's not like you are sitting there and going to pick up, drop and then pick up another guy in FCFS and block every player, which is churning and definitely should not be allowed. End of the day, you're there to try win $300K, if he does not have a bid in for every single available viable QB for the waiver run tonight (and at 3-7 and out of the playoffs it's less likely he is paying attention) then he is making the strategic mistake and you are making the proper strategic move within the rules to better your chances of making the playoffs and a shot at the championship rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplemonster Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 (edited) Let's say you pick up the first 3 and drop the 3 guys you planned, no big deal, they are all droppable. He doesn't select a QB, so then you run waivers again Sat and you'd drop who, the original 3 QB's to pick up the next 3? Aren't the 3 you dropped available to be picked up for free before the game on Sun? Maybe I am missing something I would just be surprised if you have 6 droppable guys just to play keep away in addition to blowing $90 in FAAB. Edited November 21, 2020 by purplemonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 OK. He didn't even try to get a QB. LOL. New poll: which QB should be my backup: Rivers, Alex Smith, Hill (LOL), back to Cousins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 4 hours ago, purplemonster said: Let's say you pick up the first 3 and drop the 3 guys you planned, no big deal, they are all droppable. He doesn't select a QB, so then you run waivers again Sat and you'd drop who, the original 3 QB's to pick up the next 3? Aren't the 3 you dropped available to be picked up for free before the game on Sun? Maybe I am missing something I would just be surprised if you have 6 droppable guys just to play keep away in addition to blowing $90 in FAAB. At RTSports, once a player is dropped, he is "protected" and cannot be claimed until the next week. I'm sure there is a logical reason for that, but in this case, it helps me greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dcat said: At RTSports, once a player is dropped, he is "protected" and cannot be claimed until the next week. I'm sure there is a logical reason for that, but in this case, it helps me greatly. Don't sweat it, you absolutely did the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted November 21, 2020 Author Share Posted November 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, League_Champion said: Don't sweat it, you absolutely did the right thing. Turns out he didn't even try. With his 3-7 and low points, he won't even make the consolation group. Maybe he just packed it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOWBOUND33 Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 A guy dropped Jameis with the intention of picking up Hill. But for a few minutes in between he picked up Stafford and then dropped him immediately for Hill. So basically Stafford was out free on the waiver wire but now is locked because of this "move". Kind of weak IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heehawks Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 2 hours ago, SNOWBOUND33 said: A guy dropped Jameis with the intention of picking up Hill. But for a few minutes in between he picked up Stafford and then dropped him immediately for Hill. So basically Stafford was out free on the waiver wire but now is locked because of this "move". Kind of weak IMO So is that what is considered "churning"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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