Chiefs vs Buccaneers (Superbowl)

[League_Champion]

6 hours ago, rajncajn said:

I don't think you quite understand. It's not just about what IS called and whether or not it's a valid call. The question is,  is that something that is being regularly called during the playoffs? The answer is absolutely no. The other question is,  is it being called evenly for both teams and from what I saw in the first half,  again I would say no. 

 

What? It was obvious that Tampa was the better coached, better prepared and more disciplined team. KC took some dumb penalties at bad times. This isn't hockey where they try to keep the calls even. Blame Andy Reid for not having them focused. 

[Finn5033]

Romo said early in the game that after watching film he noticed that KC’s defense does a lot of holding and it could end up being an issue for them in the game

[purplemonster]

The Bucs weren't holding the 1st half, I can say that fairly clearly from watching a sped up replay.  They weren't playing press coverage often and Mahomes was running for his life the whole time so they had no need to, and even when they had the chance they weren't. KC has been holding too much and they got called for some stuff. I didn't love the Tyrann Mathieu call in the end zone and I didn't like that Tyrann Mathieu taunting necessarily either, I think they should have let it go. But the two teams were not at all similar in the holding issue.  Next year they should lighten up on the flags but I think KC needs to find a way to hold less too. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by purplemonster

[rajncajn]

1 hour ago, purplemonster said:

The Bucs weren't holding the 1st half, I can say that fairly clearly from watching a sped up replay.  They weren't playing press coverage often and Mahomes was running for his life the whole time so they had no need to, and even when they had the chance they weren't. KC has been holding too much and they got called for some stuff. I didn't love the Tyrann Mathieu call in the end zone and I didn't like that Tyrann Mathieu taunting necessarily either, I think they should have let it go. But the two teams were not at all similar in the holding issue.  Next year they should lighten up on the flags but I think KC needs to find a way to hold less too. 

I didn't watch enough of the game to know, that's why I'm asking. Was the game called the same way for both teams? I know I saw one play where the LB got there early on Kelce, but he still made the catch. I know that it certainly hasn't been called that way leading up to the Superbowl and that undoubtedly benefited Tampa. So why was this game called differently?

 

In the first half alone, the Chiefs set a Superbowl record with 8 penalties for 95 yards. That's understandable if the refs are calling a tight game since they're well over the average on penalties for the year, ranking 4th in the league. However, Tampa isn't typically clean in that area either as they rank 6th in the league in penalties, yet had only one penalty in the entire first half for 5 yards. Did Tampa really play that cleanly beyond what is typical for them?

 

I can say this, from what I saw KC came out completely flat & weren't playing well at all on offense. But in the games I have watched, they seem to do that sometimes from the start and then begin to pick it up as the game goes along. But on defense they seemed to be holding their own at first until the penalties started killing them very late into the 1st & throughout the 2nd quarter. Tampa beat them, outplayed them in every aspect & there should be no excuses for that. However, you can't deny that the penalties in the first half had a huge impact on the game & not from just a scoreboard standpoint but, more importantly, a demoralizing & momentum killing one. Imagine playing a certain way for the entire season all the way through the playoffs & then in the biggest game suddenly not being allowed to do the things that helped get you there in the first place? Going in there seems to be a standard set & not just for one team, but both and then suddenly that standard has changed only KC apparently didn't get the memo. OR, maybe KC just didn't do their due diligence on the officiating crew.

 

The best example I can think of on different standards is the Legion of Boom defenses of Seattle. Had they not been allowed to play so aggressively with their DBs it's very possible they would have never won a Superbowl. The standard they played with throughout those years was pretty much the same and continued through to the Superbowl. But what if you changed that standard for the Superbowl or held Seattle to a different standard than their opponent?

 

That's the questions I'm asking & I think they absolutely should be asked. Are teams being treated fairly across the league or are some teams and players receiving preferential treatment by the league and/or officiators? I feel like it's the latter and I think that certain evidence has shown very good examples of that possibility, at least enough to strongly question it. Not just from an officiating standpoint, but from a league office standpoint as well. Even if a team is outplayed on the field like KC was, if one team is getting a leg up then that can have a very real impact on the game by either evening the playing field or solidifying an outcome.

[League_Champion]

3 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

, if one team is getting a leg up then that can have a very real impact on the game by either evening the playing field or solidifying an outcome.

 

This is not the game for that argument. KC got whipped up and down the field. They were overmatched, simple as that. 

[rajncajn]

25 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

This is not the game for that argument. KC got whipped up and down the field. They were overmatched, simple as that. 

You didn't quote the entire sentence for a reason. This IS a game for that argument because clearly there were calls in this game, the most important game of the year, that were not typical of the way games were being called. Go do a search online for Superbowl penalties and see how many players, coaches, analysts, former refs, journalists etc are echoing the same thing that I am. This game was called differently and all of those calls directly had an influence on the first three touchdowns of the game, putting KC down 21-3 at the half. Did KC play flat? Did KC drop passes? Did Tampa play better & capitalize on the opportunities that they were given by KC's poor play? All yes. Was Tampa afforded opportunities that KC was not? Yeah, I think so. So, when one team is given opportunities that the other is theoretically not. It makes it a heck of a lot harder to pull yourself out of a slump and regardless of what team is better, it affects the course of the game. The end results may have been no different, but at least it may have been a more competitive game.

Edited February 8, 2021 by rajncajn

[League_Champion]

37 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

You didn't quote the entire sentence for a reason. This IS a game for that argument because clearly there were calls in this game, the most important game of the year, that were not typical of the way games were being called. Go do a search online for Superbowl penalties and see how many players, coaches, analysts, former refs, journalists etc are echoing the same thing that I am. This game was called differently and all of those calls directly had an influence on the first three touchdowns of the game, putting KC down 21-3 at the half. Did KC play flat? Did KC drop passes? Did Tampa play better & capitalize on the opportunities that they were given by KC's poor play? All yes. Was Tampa afforded opportunities that KC was not? Yeah, I think so. So, when one team is given opportunities that the other is theoretically not. It makes it a heck of a lot harder to pull yourself out of a slump and regardless of what team is better, it affects the course of the game. The end results may have been no different, but at least it may have been a more competitive game.

 

Did we watch the same game?? I watched an undisciplined KC team take dumb, obvious penalties all night. And I'm not talking borderline penalties. These were blatant, obvious call. Not minor infractions. One team was commiting bad penalties, the other was not. What are the refs supposed to do? 

[rajncajn]

Pass interference on Mike Evans:

Evans' left foot trips Breeland and he begins to fall grazing Evans' hip and foot. Evans, as a result of the trip, loses momentum, but not balance. Is that technically a penalty on Breeland for touching Evans as he went down? I guess, though I've never seen one that weak called and certainly not in a playoff game. I've certainly seen MUCH, MUCH worse not called. Did Breeland cause Evans to drop the way he did? I highly doubt it. Was the ball even catchable? I highly doubt it, especially not after Evans lost his momentum, which wasn't caused by Breeland. This play should have been looked at closer and the flag should have been picked up.

 

 

[rajncajn]

8 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

Did we watch the same game?? I watched an undisciplined KC team take dumb, obvious penalties all night. And I'm not talking borderline penalties. These were blatant, obvious call. Not minor infractions. One team was commiting bad penalties, the other was not. What are the refs supposed to do? 

Obviously a lot of people who are supposed to be professionals saw something going on that you seem to be blind to.

[League_Champion]

15 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

Obviously a lot of people who are supposed to be professionals saw something going on that you seem to be blind to.

 

I think you're being a little dramatic, just enjoy the games. 

[Bobby Brown]

The calls were a bit skewed towards one way, but not even close to being egregious relative to other big games of memory.

 

Tampa Bay dominated the game and KC apparently didn't have any apparent strategy besides letting Mahomes freestyle.  

[rajncajn]

25 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

I think you're being a little dramatic, just enjoy the games. 

I think that you can't be bothered to do a simple web search.

[League_Champion]

Just now, rajncajn said:

I think that you can't be bothered to do a simple web search.

 

I'll check it out. 

[Shaft]

1 hour ago, Bobby Brown said:

The calls were a bit skewed towards one way, but not even close to being egregious relative to other big games of memory.

 

Tampa Bay dominated the game and KC apparently didn't have any apparent strategy besides letting Mahomes freestyle.  

I agree with this. It can also be argued that some of the questionable calls changed the momentum of the game, especially the PIs and holdings. But KC didn't do anything except have Mahomes look like Steph Curry shooting off balance 3s. Most of the calls were in the first half. But TB's defense was dominant the ENTIRE game, and they just gave them an old fashion butt kicking. 

[purplemonster]

1 hour ago, rajncajn said:

Pass interference on Mike Evans:

Evans' left foot trips Breeland and he begins to fall grazing Evans' hip and foot. Evans, as a result of the trip, loses momentum, but not balance. Is that technically a penalty on Breeland for touching Evans as he went down? I guess, though I've never seen one that weak called and certainly not in a playoff game. I've certainly seen MUCH, MUCH worse not called. Did Breeland cause Evans to drop the way he did? I highly doubt it. Was the ball even catchable? I highly doubt it, especially not after Evans lost his momentum, which wasn't caused by Breeland. This play should have been looked at closer and the flag should have been picked up.

 

 

I would phrase this differently. Evans, who has a step and is running close to a straight line, has Breeland come up behind him and trip on his foot, who then falls on top of Evans.  It would be be one thing if they were side to side but they weren't. Evans can't see directly behind himself so it is up to Breeland to not contact him.  I just have a hard time calling it incidental when the only person for a chance on the play is Evans.  

 

As for the other stuff, I agree some mildly ticky tacky stuff went TB's way but it wasn't egregious.  I can understand why KC fans are upset but they got beaten pretty handily with or without the penalties.  I am sure some can change the game momentum wise but that's usually pretty unknowable. We might as well have a crystal ball at that point. The KC/GB game was an anything goes slugfest and this one wasn't.  Sometimes the strike zone is larger or smaller too in baseball.  I don't know. Maybe the NFL should work on their consistency in refereeing but it will never be perfect.

[rajncajn]

17 minutes ago, purplemonster said:

 has Breeland come up behind him and trip on his foot, who then falls on top of Evans.

This is ridiculous. The trip was incidental contact that neither player was at fault for. This happens all the time and is NOT pass interference. When two players get their legs tangled together in any fashion, unless one player intentionally trips the other, it's NOT pass interference. It isn't up to the DB to make sure his legs aren't in the way of the receiver's legs.  As for falling "on top" of Evans, you have to be kidding me...

[rajncajn]

44 minutes ago, Shaft said:

I agree with this. It can also be argued that some of the questionable calls changed the momentum of the game, especially the PIs and holdings. But KC didn't do anything except have Mahomes look like Steph Curry shooting off balance 3s. Most of the calls were in the first half. But TB's defense was dominant the ENTIRE game, and they just gave them an old fashion butt kicking. 

I agree with this completely.

[purplemonster]

1 hour ago, rajncajn said:

This is ridiculous. The trip was incidental contact that neither player was at fault for. This happens all the time and is NOT pass interference. When two players get their legs tangled together in any fashion, unless one player intentionally trips the other, it's NOT pass interference. It isn't up to the DB to make sure his legs aren't in the way of the receiver's legs.  As for falling "on top" of Evans, you have to be kidding me...

The difference is that Breeland was beat on the play and behind Evans. Evans isn't zigging and zagging he's running down the field pretty straight and Breeland essentially trips him, or at least isn't paying attention enough to not run into the back of Evans.  It is his fault.  In almost every sport you will almost always get called if you are behind someone and you trip him. Hockey, basketball, they aren't going to say 'incidental contact' even if you didn't mean to.  I can see how someone would make that case but I think it is wrong because it unfairly disadvantages the player who got open.  Breeland wasn't overtaking Evans, he was beat and trying to get back in the play.  

 

I too agree with Shaft. Anyway it would be interesting how many others consider that a penalty or incidental. Anyone? 

[Finn5033]

I watched the whole game and did not care who won, all I wanted was a good game. Like I said even Romo made the point very early in the game that after watching film he noticed that KC’s D did a lot of holding and that it may cause them problems in this game. If the game was close I can see why people would want to talk about the calls. But with the butt whipping that KC took I think it’s pointless to suggest it’s why they lost

[Gopher]

I picked KC, had a little $$ on KC, and was pulling for them all game.  I just don't see how the officiating came anything close to changing the outcome of that game.  They got beat in literally every facet of the game.  If you're in a game where you can say that you arguably outplayed your opponent, but the refs changed the outcome, that's one thing.  KC can't make that argument.  Their O-Line couldn't stop TB's defense, and Mahomes was literally running for his life all night long.  On top of that, TB seemed to make adjustments while KC didn't seem to.  In basketball, if you get called for a couple of touch fouls, you adjust the way you're defending.  If you don't, you're going to be in foul trouble.  Seems like that's what happened with the KC secondary.... they just couldn't stop with the "handsy" defensive play, and eventually, the penalties started to cost them.

 

Was there a bad call here or there?  Sure.  I'm not even sure that the officiating crew that was used was the league's best (I heard a rumor that the crew was picked to showcase a certain member of the group, which wouldn't at all surprise me).  So, yeah, if you want to argue that the refs in general weren't great, I'll buy that.  But, if your argument is that the refs cost KC the game, you either weren't paying very close attention or are extremely biased.  Which, I'm finding, is the case for a lot of the "Brady haters" out there.  They'll grasp at straws as to why he's underserving, why he's not the best, etc.  Funny, given how many of those same people are the first ones to scream "conspiracy theory" in other situations.  

[Finn5033]

@gopher 

 

exactly, a lot of the people complaining about the officiating are people who thought the fix was in before the game even started. 

[League_Champion]

Why don't we focus on what really happened? Tom Brady just won his 7th Superbowl on a new team, new town, with new teamates, with new coaches and a new playbook at 43 years old. And he did it against the unbeatable defending Superbowl Champions. It's one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen in sports. 

[purplemonster]

7 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

Why don't we focus on what really happened? Tom Brady just won his 7th Superbowl on a new team, new town, with new teamates, with new coaches and a new playbook at 43 years old. And he did it against the unbeatable defending Superbowl Champions. It's one of the most remarkable things I've ever seen in sports. 

It was like watching the old Pats but with different jerseys.

[League_Champion]

2 minutes ago, purplemonster said:

It was like watching the old Pats but with different jerseys.

 

Tom Brady now has more Superbowl wins than the New England Patriots, hahaa. 

[purplemonster]

1 minute ago, League_Champion said:

 

Tom Brady now has more Superbowl wins than the New England Patriots, hahaa. 

Everyone should read this link. TB12's daily routine 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/article/tom-brady-diet-fitness-routines/amp/