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NCAA has its day in the supreme court


millworkguy
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Wow that's pretty weak stuff from the NCAA lawyers. They must have thought the conservative nature of the court would have them siding with the big business interest that having unpaid labor generating billions of dollars was fair. Good to see a few of them telling the NCAA "that's an argument from a different era". 

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The can of worms that gets opened is how would they get paid? Could you pay more for one player than another? Is there a salary cap? Because the Alabama's and Clemson's and LSU's of the world can pay much more than smaller schools. There's already a problem with a player being able to sign anywhere, so the elite players naturally restock elite teams. What if the elite teams also throw in more money than other programs? 

 

I think it is appropriate and fine that the players can endorse deals and have their jerseys, if needed make it so that the money goes into an account they cannot touch until they leave school. The schools themselves cannot pay the players or if they did, that could get really complicated and hard to produce fairness.

 

I do agree - thinking that people watch college football because they want to see amateurs is ridiculous. They pay to see elite play on teams that are constantly churning their roster every year.

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Whatever happened to college athletes playing for the love of the game?  And aren't players (the good ones, the ones that really matter) being paid by getting a free ride/education anyhow?

 

Paying athletes would have such a terrible ripple effect down to every level of "competition".  Coaches will be pushing kids at all ages to nth degree in order to get paid. It'll be so cutthroat!

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I wonder about the ripple effect, sure college football has revenue, but what about college ping pong, soccer, hockey and is cheerleading a sport?

 Do schools just close programs that dont have much revenue, 

 Also do all student athletes get a full ride?  I know several hockey players that got half tuition, etc etc.  Some are already getting more then others.

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Just now, millworkguy said:

I wonder about the ripple effect, sure college football has revenue, but what about college ping pong, soccer, hockey and is cheerleading a sport?

 Do schools just close programs that dont have much revenue, 

 Also do all student athletes get a full ride?  I know several hockey players that got half tuition, etc etc.  Some are already getting more then others.

Exactly what I'm saying above, all sports and all athletes will want their cut. College athletes will now need agents, and things will get really ugly and competitive for the all mighty dollar. 

 

These athletes should not be paid anything more than the free ride or whatever monetary amount they're getting from the schools they choose to attend. The lucrative part of life should begin when they go from being an amateur college athlete to earning a spot in the pro ranks. 

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Just now, irish said:

Exactly what I'm saying above, all sports and all athletes will want their cut. College athletes will now need agents, and things will get really ugly and competitive for the all mighty dollar. 

 

These athletes should not be paid anything more than the free ride or whatever monetary amount they're getting from the schools they choose to attend. The lucrative part of life should begin when they go from being an amateur college athlete to earning a spot in the pro ranks. 

I think there are 9600 college football programs, the NCAA makes millions and 400 get a shot at the nfl each year.  For 90,000 college is where it ends (for football)

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2 minutes ago, millworkguy said:

I wonder about the ripple effect, sure college football has revenue, but what about college ping pong, soccer, hockey and is cheerleading a sport?

 Do schools just close programs that dont have much revenue, 

 Also do all student athletes get a full ride?  I know several hockey players that got half tuition, etc etc.  Some are already getting more then others.

 

I don't think the schools will be paying anyone. I just think this will give players the right to make a living outside the sport, whether it's endorsement deals, etc. 

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Yet another problem is if agents get involved, man - could they take advantage of a dumb (but talented) 18 year old kid? That maybe comes from nothing? 

 

it is a mess with no easy answer. But it is undeniable that colleges use kids to rake in billions, and yet many of these same "students" would not be there if not for a scholarship. They are only there for the sport and that is the only reason that the school would submit them.

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Outside of basketball and Football most college teams don’t turn a profit, or in fact lose money. Most other sports in college are only possible because of the money generated from the Football and Basketball teams. There is no way the schools themselves can pay players. But allowing them to make money off of their name seems totally fair. There is no reason that Trevor Lawrence shouldn’t be able to sign a shoe deal or a Pepsi deal when he’s in college. And he should get a cut of his jersey sales etc

Edited by Finn5033
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The NCAA would be the one paying the athletes, and I could see it as a % of revenue gets paid equally to all NCAA div 1 football players, a different % to div 2 etc etc, and obviously this could differ based on the sport, television deals etc.

 

 I could also see that no money gets paid out while they are still in school, and the NCAA wanting the right to limit player deals (imagine catholic schools with players advertising condoms etc etc)

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23 hours ago, Finn5033 said:

Outside of basketball and Football most college teams don’t turn a profit, or in fact lose money. Most other sports in college are only possible because of the money generated from the Football and Basketball teams. There is no way the schools themselves can pay players. But allowing them to make money off of their name seems totally fair. There is no reason that Trevor Lawrence shouldn’t be able to sign a shoe deal or a Pepsi deal when he’s in college. And he should get a cut of his jersey sales etc

 

Exactly if somebody studying art or music at a school can sell their product or get compensation for their skills why not athletes?

 

21 hours ago, purplemonster said:

This whole situation seems like a nightmare. I am not sure if you can keep the system as is, and at the same time the logistics of changing it are really complicated.  Good luck on this one.  

Agreed

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1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

Exactly if somebody studying art or music at a school can sell their product or get compensation for their skills why not athletes?

 

THIS ∆. How can you deny someone the right to make a living? And what if they don't go on a scholarship? What if an agent pays for them to go to college (pay to play) so they can earn millions while there. This is going to be a mess. 

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2 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

THIS ∆. How can you deny someone the right to make a living? And what if they don't go on a scholarship? What if an agent pays for them to go to college (pay to play) so they can earn millions while there. This is going to be a mess. 

 

Exactly, which is why you don't pay any of them. They're amateur, student athletes trying to earn their way to big show. If they're the best of the best, they get paid by getting a full ride/education to the school they choose. If they're lesser, then they get a partial scholarship and so on down the line.  Now if an outside apparel/shoe/video game company wants to pay an adult money for them to advertise their product/s, that's different. But a school shouldn't have to pay an athlete money beyond paying their way partially or completely for the education they're receiving. 

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10 minutes ago, irish said:

 

Exactly, which is why you don't pay any of them. They're amateur, student athletes trying to earn their way to big show. If they're the best of the best, they get paid by getting a full ride/education to the school they choose. If they're lesser, then they get a partial scholarship and so on down the line.  Now if an outside apparel/shoe/video game company wants to pay an adult money for them to advertise their product/s, that's different. But a school shouldn't have to pay an athlete money beyond paying their way partially or completely for the education they're receiving. 

 

Yup and the good players don't need the schools to pay them. They can make millions on their own via shoe deals, endorsements, appearance fees, etc. 

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3 hours ago, irish said:

 

Exactly, which is why you don't pay any of them. They're amateur, student athletes trying to earn their way to big show. If they're the best of the best, they get paid by getting a full ride/education to the school they choose. If they're lesser, then they get a partial scholarship and so on down the line.  Now if an outside apparel/shoe/video game company wants to pay an adult money for them to advertise their product/s, that's different. But a school shouldn't have to pay an athlete money beyond paying their way partially or completely for the education they're receiving. 

But its not the school paying them.  Its a 3rd party who makes millions off showing off their work.  Hey can i use your likeness for free, generate income off it, and give you nothing, but brand recognition.  I am reading alot of confusion about the school paying them, its not the school's being sued, they get an education at the school, what does the NCAA give them?

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30 minutes ago, millworkguy said:

But its not the school paying them.  Its a 3rd party who makes millions off showing off their work.  Hey can i use your likeness for free, generate income off it, and give you nothing, but brand recognition.  I am reading alot of confusion about the school paying them, its not the school's being sued, they get an education at the school, what does the NCAA give them?

OK, thx for the clarification, so the NCAA would be paying them. I still wouldn't do it. The negative ripple effect would work its way all the way down to pop warner league, etc.  They are amateur, student athletes. Earn your way to the pros and make your money elsewhere before then.  Just my 2 cents. 

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2 minutes ago, irish said:

OK, thx for the clarification, so the NCAA would be paying them. I still wouldn't do it. The negative ripple effect would work its way all the way down to pop warner league, etc.  They are amateur, student athletes. Earn your way to the pros and make your money elsewhere before then.  Just my 2 cents. 

Football, and alot of other sports dont have the same minor league systems that soccer/hockey/baseball do.  Much harder to earn an income as a female basketball college player, or anywhere their is no career minor league system.  These kids give thousands of hours like many.other professions.  Imagine getting their and being told your not the top .00001% so you get to make 35,000 for 2 years and that's all.  Now find something else 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, millworkguy said:

Football, and alot of other sports dont have the same minor league systems that soccer/hockey/baseball do.  Much harder to earn an income as a female basketball college player, or anywhere their is no career minor league system.  These kids give thousands of hours like many.other professions.  Imagine getting their and being told your not the top .00001% so you get to make 35,000 for 2 years and that's all.  Now find something else 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that's called life. That's why getting an education always has been, still is and always will be the most important piece. 

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1 minute ago, irish said:

Unfortunately, that's called life. That's why getting an education always has been, still is and always will be the most important piece. 

But alot of really successful people dont have an education 

  We make idols of them, and we allow others to follow in their footsteps and fail.  People always look for different paths.  I dont care what my kids do, so long as they are happy.  I made 50% more then what I do now 12 years ago, but am much happier now.   We need to find a new definition of success.   But until then the American dream Is filled with green, and while you seem willing to pay the NCAA leadership tens of millions of dollars and take it for free off the backs of tens of thousands of college students.   I think things need to change. 

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1 minute ago, millworkguy said:

But alot of really successful people dont have an education 

  We make idols of them, and we allow others to follow in their footsteps and fail.  People always look for different paths.  I dont care what my kids do, so long as they are happy.  I made 50% more then what I do now 12 years ago, but am much happier now.   We need to find a new definition of success.   But until then the American dream Is filled with green, and while you seem willing to pay the NCAA leadership tens of millions of dollars and take it for free off the backs of tens of thousands of college students.   I think things need to change. 

I gotcha, well certainly be interesting to see what happens. I also agree that there are many more paths to happiness beside getting a college degree. 

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