Sallen Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Since now is a time people will be the most active on here for the draft, I feel now is the time to throw this thought out there. What would you all think if we just got rid of the two conferences and just have 4 divisions? There's really no reason for the current division pairings for conferences outside the fact it was prolly random. Everyone plays each non division team once every year so the pairings could easily change and have no schedule impacts. It limits playoff eligibility for wild card spots. In doing away with conferences, any two teams could be eligible for the last two spots and it could allow for 3 teams from the same division to make the playoffs. Ive already discussed with both commissioners, and they are on the same page as I am for the most part. We could also shake up divisions entirely, but that's a slightly different discussion. Any thoughts? I think this would be great dialogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Thank you for sharing your thoughts Sam! It would be great to hear what other team owners think of this concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Siel Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Sounds like a good idea to me. If you wanted to shake up divisions, you could redo divisions every year by previous years standings. 1, 2, 3 - 4, 5, 6 - 7, 8, 9 - 10, 11, 12 That would maybe promote competitive balance similar to the NFL scheduling cross divisional matchups by previous year standings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sallen Posted July 14, 2021 Author Share Posted July 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Josh Siel said: Sounds like a good idea to me. If you wanted to shake up divisions, you could redo divisions every year by previous years standings. 1, 2, 3 - 4, 5, 6 - 7, 8, 9 - 10, 11, 12 That would maybe promote competitive balance similar to the NFL scheduling cross divisional matchups by previous year standings. Good feedback, yeah I agree... it would be interesting to see how that concept could change results compared to how it is now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP2006 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 I agree with Josh and Sam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuz Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 I’m not sure both tweaks need to be done. I’m skeptical on the year end ranking and putting those in the same division. In this scenario, someone who finishes in the bottom 3 will automatically make it in to the playoffs next year. This undermines the purpose and reason for rethinking divisions and conferences in the first place - to allow space for the best teams to make the playoffs. How do we determine which divisions play each other in the playoffs if there are no conferences? If the answer is that it depends on playoff seeding, then what is the point of divisions as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sallen Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, fuz said: I’m not sure both tweaks need to be done. I’m skeptical on the year end ranking and putting those in the same division. In this scenario, someone who finishes in the bottom 3 will automatically make it in to the playoffs next year. This undermines the purpose and reason for rethinking divisions and conferences in the first place - to allow space for the best teams to make the playoffs. How do we determine which divisions play each other in the playoffs if there are no conferences? If the answer is that it depends on playoff seeding, then what is the point of divisions as well? I said in my original post that there is no reasoning for the original division lineup and which divisions belong in which conference. I would think of it as just having one conference. Playoff wise the top two seeds would get a bye, 5 would play 4, and 3 would play 6. If you look my side of the bracket from last yr, my side played adam's side as it should be per the rules. our two teams were also the 2/3 best teams in the league, with josh being #1 and also being on our side. If we look at last yr in a scenario without conferences, the seeding would have gone as follows: 1) Josh 2)Sam 3) Tim 4) Ken 5) Adam 6) Shane. With the current setup, Adam and I are basically punished to playing each other in the first round just because Josh was #1 and he in our conference, yet it technically doesnt matter the two divisions are in the same conference. Each yr is going to be different, and how last yr's season went with the three best teams all on one conference may not happen every year. But because there is no scheduling reasoning to how divisions are aligned to the conference, a division winner may have the benefit of getting a bye even though they are not the second best team overall. Edited July 19, 2021 by Sallen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuz Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 I apologize for the potential misunderstanding. I agree with the idea that the conferences may not be needed - but the idea that we re-organize the divisions by ranking (1,2,3 - 4,5,6 - 7,8,9 - 10,11,12) may be more problematic when stacked on top of your original idea in this thread. Divisions would still make one of the bottom 3 teams go to the playoffs instead of the 6th best team. This would defeat the purpose of what you are trying to do. I hope that this helps explain my post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sallen Posted July 19, 2021 Author Share Posted July 19, 2021 Apology accepted. I thought when you started a new paragraph in your original post you were going back to comment on my original post. But I do see now what you were saying now with the clarification. maybe the 1,2,3 Structure does have some flaws. Maybe you could try to have a system in place where the top 4 teams record wise each lead a division; the middle 4 teams would be assigned to a division, and the bottom 4 teams would be assigned to a division. I believe that would be the best way to rearrange divisions each yr based on previous yrs results. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoffaDeeznutz Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 How about 2 divisions with the odd number finished teams in 1 division (1,3,5,7,9,11) and the even number ranked teams in the other division (2,4,6,8,10,12) everyone plays each other 1 time (11 games) then the other 2 games are against the other 2 teams in the quarter of your standing position (example #1 will play #2 and #3 in the other 2 games, #4 plays# 5 and #6 etc) then top 2 in each division get in playoffs then top 2 after that regardless of division get wild card. 1 and 2 seed get byes. 3 plays 6 and 4 plays 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuz Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 15 hours ago, Sallen said: Maybe you could try to have a system in place where the top 4 teams record wise each lead a division; the middle 4 teams would be assigned to a division, and the bottom 4 teams would be assigned to a division. I believe that would be the best way to rearrange divisions each yr based on previous yrs results. Thoughts? 11 hours ago, BoffaDeeznutz said: How about 2 divisions with the odd number finished teams in 1 division (1,3,5,7,9,11) and the even number ranked teams in the other division (2,4,6,8,10,12) everyone plays each other 1 time (11 games) then the other 2 games are against the other 2 teams in the quarter of your standing position (example #1 will play #2 and #3 in the other 2 games, #4 plays# 5 and #6 etc) then top 2 in each division get in playoffs then top 2 after that regardless of division get wild card. 1 and 2 seed get byes. 3 plays 6 and 4 plays 5. I think either Sam or Wade's ideas have merit here. Does anyone else have any thoughts? I think at a minimum, the wild card definition should be changed to remove divisions, conferences. I think this will help. However, the idea of swapping divisions or conferences (or removing either one or the other) could be done as well. I would support either of these ideas - I would just need a bit more detail on Sam's approach as to how to assign teams to divisions. Unless we go with Wade's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarus Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 I don't think we should change placement of teams in divisions/conferences often. Maybe a periodic, predetermined shuffling, but not as a reaction to the past year's (or past 2 years') results. With Dynasty Football, a team who finished low a couple of years might suddenly be the strongest from the draft picks. Any team missing one (or more) Franchise Player(s) (CMC, Saquon...or both!.. and might as well throw Dak's name in) might suddenly be the team to beat. Over time, if a league is full of active managers, there should be some natural churn which causes balance and unbalance. To think that last year's final standings would carry forward and suddenly create parity in the next year's schedule is not likely to happen. I joined the league because I know DonkeyPower and Stanley Morgan. I like being in a division with them and playing them twice. However, I certainly understand the conversation to change or eliminate the divisions. But I wouldn't shake up conferences often. Then again...the Division model is very popular in the NFL and they face the same exact problems where a .500 team might win a division and make playoffs and a 10-6 team might miss out. No post season model is perfect. The most popular post season tournament in the US, March Madness, is the most flawed structure of them all and everyone can look past its faults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiese Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 I would agree with Icarus, i dont think we should change up the divisions, I like having Icarus and Stanley Morgan in the same division as I am because I know them personally, especially since we all dont know eachother personally. If we could find another way to change things up without changing divisions that to me would be the better option. I was talking to Fuz and he had a good idea about keeping the divisions but going away with the conferences and the wild card at the end of the year would be the one(s) with the best record. Maybe he can expand on it a little bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuz Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 48 minutes ago, Fiese said: I was talking to Fuz and he had a good idea about keeping the divisions but going away with the conferences and the wild card at the end of the year would be the one(s) with the best record. Maybe he can expand on it a little bit more. There are multiple ideas at play here. I'm just relaying what I've heard and what I am hearing from others. I'm not sure I can take credit for any ideas, here... I think the ideas that have been posted so far have been great - keep them coming! One idea is revolving around Sam's original post - to eliminate the conferences. Currently, the conferences and divisions fix the playoff bracket to the 2 division winners and 1 wild card from that conference on one side of the bracket. Going to a division only seed approach would eliminate a stacked half of the playoff bracket and also allow 3 teams from one division to make the playoffs (2 wild cards from the same division). This wasn't my idea - this was Sam's (and Shane's, I believe). I think we have enough people that like this idea that we may be able to put this change to a vote for the upcoming season. Sam - do you want me to take a stab at the rule change wording and put just this idea up to a vote or would you like to? The other idea mixed into the conversation is to re-form each division with different teams. I think there have been a number of team owners that have mentioned that they like this idea. However, I'm sensing some hesitation to this idea - perhaps it is not vetted well enough. Perhaps there is a way to keep Ken, Chris, and David together, but change a few others up to create what they are looking for in a division change for a few teams? Maybe we just need to allow two teams to swap from division to division, as long as it is approved (voted on) by the whole league. We need more definition to what we will be voting on here. What are everyone's thoughts on any or all of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sallen Posted July 20, 2021 Author Share Posted July 20, 2021 2 hours ago, fuz said: There are multiple ideas at play here. I'm just relaying what I've heard and what I am hearing from others. I'm not sure I can take credit for any ideas, here... I think the ideas that have been posted so far have been great - keep them coming! One idea is revolving around Sam's original post - to eliminate the conferences. Currently, the conferences and divisions fix the playoff bracket to the 2 division winners and 1 wild card from that conference on one side of the bracket. Going to a division only seed approach would eliminate a stacked half of the playoff bracket and also allow 3 teams from one division to make the playoffs (2 wild cards from the same division). This wasn't my idea - this was Sam's (and Shane's, I believe). I think we have enough people that like this idea that we may be able to put this change to a vote for the upcoming season. Sam - do you want me to take a stab at the rule change wording and put just this idea up to a vote or would you like to? The other idea mixed into the conversation is to re-form each division with different teams. I think there have been a number of team owners that have mentioned that they like this idea. However, I'm sensing some hesitation to this idea - perhaps it is not vetted well enough. Perhaps there is a way to keep Ken, Chris, and David together, but change a few others up to create what they are looking for in a division change for a few teams? Maybe we just need to allow two teams to swap from division to division, as long as it is approved (voted on) by the whole league. We need more definition to what we will be voting on here. What are everyone's thoughts on any or all of this? I can draft the the rule change, I’ll try to get it out by the weekend. The only portion I would not be 100% sure on is how the playoff bracket would go. My thought is it would be similar to the NFL playoffs where the 1 seed would play the worst remaining team. However I have been in a couple ESPN leagues where the 1 seed is fixed to playing the winner of 4/5 and 2 seed is fixed to playing the winner of 3/6. The bracket itself is the same, unless the 6 seed wins their first game. Preference? I would agree that the division pairings is a different convo but also related. Good to see we can proceed with a rule vote while also keeping this other convo going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuz Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 Sam thanks for putting that rule vote together. To keep the convo going on shaking things up across divisions we have something else to consider. A new wrinkle to all this that I just realized: there are week 14 byes. Typically, our seasons have been 13 weeks with the playoffs starting in week 14. I don't think we can do playoffs with players on byes in week 14. We may be forced to figure something out for the 17 game season. The easiest idea I can think of - week 14 is a bye week for fantasy purposes with the playoffs starting in week 15. No games equals no issues - however, that means that if you have a player with week 14 byes, you will not have to worry about their bye week all season and have a bit of an advantage. However, one idea that may help tweak things a bit: (this is still just an idea) go to 3 divisions - no conferences. 4 teams in each division. you play 2 games against your division mates (6 games) and 8 games against the rest of the league for a 14 game regular season. we would need to go to 3 division winners and 3 wild cards with seeds determining week one playoff byes, wild cards, etc. This would allow for a bit of reconfiguring for each division, keep some current owners together in a division, and allow for an extra wild card. I'm up for other ideas. We have to make some kind of change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuz Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 Reviving this thread - does anyone have any other thoughts? What do you think of going to 3 divisions (4 teams each) and no conferences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 I'm in favor of deleting conferences. I'm also in favor of changing to 3 divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sallen Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 I'll give in, Im ok with 3 division of 4 teams, as well as adding week 14 to the regular season and postponing the playoffs by a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CARBoys Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 I do not care, if you get 11 votes for something count me as the 12th on anything decided here if it needs to be unanimous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbart Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 I agree to both the rule changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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