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Vaxxed or unvaxxed?


irish
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17 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

And????? Is there some kind of point to this post? Other than to make it sound like the vaccines are not useful.  Only fools believe being vaccinated/boostered means no chance of getting it. 

 

Let us know when you know people who were vaxxed and boosted who got COVID and were hospitalized, in the ICU, on a ventilator or died. Or maybe you have some facts that show that the reports of the majority (in the 90% range) of those hospitalized and dying are unvaxxed. 

Completely agreed, which was exactly what I was saying. What was the point of the post?  Definitely seemed like he was trashing the vaccine because, OMG, someone who was vaccinated got covid. Stop the press!  Definitely showed a lack of understanding of how vaccines work. 

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4 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

don't quote steve, i have him on ignore! :yay:

"Only fools believe being vaccinated/boostered means no chance of getting it. "

-- and yet, that was the message from the beginning to only recently.

 

And you can't spread it when vaccinated, remember that nonsense? Now all the nine time needle Nancy's run around without a mask like it's nothing, but you're the real problem. Go figure. 

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2 hours ago, stevegrab said:

 

And????? Is there some kind of point to this post?

My reaction was the same.  Apparently the point was that getting vaccinated and still getting CV "isn't the greatest endorsement."

For whatever reason; Rajn is very concerned about the perception, political messaging, and symbolism over vaccines; the substantive stuff seems secondary.  :lol:

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18 hours ago, irish said:

What was the point of the post? 

Sharing experience. God forbid what I share does not tow the line.

 

BTW, next time just save your faux concern and don't beat around the bush. If your want to call bullmanure, then just do it. I'm not as dense as you may think and I'm more than capable of responding. You want to play games and try to manipulate a response out of me then all you're going to get in response is games. 

 

As for my friend,  I wasn't at work today,  but from everything I can tell from his Facebook page his symptoms are pretty mild this time. Whether that's from the vaccine,  antibodies or a less impactful omnicron variant I have no idea. I am not his doctor,  nor a virologist.

 

The reason I shared it is because I think that it's important to share experience,  especially experiences that may be considered (now) to be outliers. And, from what I can tell,  these rare breakthrough cases seem to be becoming more and more frequent. If you don't think that's important then,  to me,  it just seems like you want to stick your head in the sand.

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36 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

My reaction was the same.  Apparently the point was that getting vaccinated and still getting CV "isn't the greatest endorsement."

The quote you're referring to was simply pointing out the irony of Irish's post given he's trying to champion the vaccines. I've endorsed and encouraged the vaccine multiple times in this thread and still do. Myself and all of my family,  that I know,  are vaccinated and boosted with exception to my youngest daughter whom we held off on getting the booster because we thought she might have been infected for a second time even though she'd just had it a month prior (yes, vaccinated).

 

So,  while I endorse getting vaccinated,  I'm not going to pretend that I don't hear of and see many of these "rare breakthrough" cases. Not because I'm looking to discredit the vaccines,  but because I want to know exactly what to expect,  good or bad. 

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18 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

Sharing experience. God forbid what I share does not tow the line.

 

BTW, next time just save your faux concern and don't beat around the bush. If your want to call bullmanure, then just do it. I'm not as dense as you may think and I'm more than capable of responding. You want to play games and try to manipulate a response out of me then ask you're going to get in response is games. 

 

As for my friend,  I want at work today,  but from everything I can tell from his Facebook page his symptoms are pretty mild this time. Whether that's from the vaccine,  antibodies or a less impactful omnicron variant I have no idea. I am not his doctor,  nor a virologist.

 

The reason I shared it is because I think that it's important to share experience,  especially experiences that may be considered (now) to be outliers. And, from what I can tell,  these rare breakthrough cases seem to be becoming more and more frequent. If you don't think that's important then,  to me,  it just seems like you want to stick your head in the sand.

What came across as faux concern?  I legitimately hope your friend doesn't suffer and am curious about how he feels this time around versus the first time. I did also think based on your comments, that you thought people can't get covid if they've been vaxxed. I did think that was weird, but hey the world is a weird place. 

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1 hour ago, rajncajn said:

The quote you're referring to was simply pointing out the irony of Irish's post given he's trying to champion the vaccines. I've endorsed and encouraged the vaccine multiple times in this thread and still do. Myself and all of my family,  that I know,  are vaccinated and boosted with exception to my youngest daughter whom we held off on getting the booster because we thought she might have been infected for a second time even though she'd just had it a month prior (yes, vaccinated).

 

So,  while I endorse getting vaccinated,  I'm not going to pretend that I don't hear of and see many of these "rare breakthrough" cases. Not because I'm looking to discredit the vaccines,  but because I want to know exactly what to expect,  good or bad. 

Fair enough.  Just seems like you are attacking a straw man and arguing for the sake of arguing. My bro in law got infected nearing his 6 month booster date.  He quarantined with mild symptoms.  Apparently some people are under the impression that catching the virus while being vaccinated is rare or a statistical outlier?  

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4 hours ago, rajncajn said:

Sharing experience. God forbid what I share does not tow the line.

 

BTW, next time just save your faux concern and don't beat around the bush. If your want to call bullmanure, then just do it. I'm not as dense as you may think and I'm more than capable of responding. You want to play games and try to manipulate a response out of me then ask you're going to get in response is games. 

 

As for my friend,  I want at work today,  but from everything I can tell from his Facebook page his symptoms are pretty mild this time. Whether that's from the vaccine,  antibodies or a less impactful omnicron variant I have no idea. I am not his doctor,  nor a virologist.

 

The reason I shared it is because I think that it's important to share experience,  especially experiences that may be considered (now) to be outliers. And, from what I can tell,  these rare breakthrough cases seem to be becoming more and more frequent. If you don't think that's important then,  to me,  it just seems like you want to stick your head in the sand.

 

I would think that this is to be expected a bit. Even though the vast majority of cases are in the unvaccinated, as the percentage of vaccinated individuals continues to increase, the number of cases in them will likewise increase, even though it is at a far lower rate than in unvaccinated. Add in that certain "media" organizations are looking to bolster the message that vaccines don't work, aren't safe, etc. to get the clicks/views, and you see the cycle we are in.

 

I think it is good to share experiences. I have relatives that have died from Covid and were denying it's existence until their last breath, and also have a close relative that is at risk (older and caner survivor) that recently tested positive despite being vaccinated - she's had very minor symptoms. We skipped our Christmas with family and postponed my son's birthday plans  because both my wife and I and 1 of our kids ended up with a cold that was going around here lately (we were negative), but as we had symptoms we didn't want to put anyone at risk in case it was something more (plus I felt like crap), even though our entire family (including everyone we were going to do Christmas and the birthday with) were vaccinated.

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10 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

Fair enough.  Just seems like you are attacking a straw man and arguing for the sake of arguing. My bro in law got infected nearing his 6 month booster date.  He quarantined with mild symptoms.  Apparently some people are under the impression that catching the virus while being vaccinated is rare or a statistical outlier?  

 

Except vaccinated and boosted people contracting the virus (testing positive) is not an outlier, or some kind of rare occurrence. I hear of plenty of people from entertainers (Jimmy Fallon and Seth Myers this past week) to athletes (the many NFL players we've been reading about the past few weeks) to friends and acquaintances who have had these type of cases. If Rajn truly believes people need to be informed about this, I have to wonder what environment he is in that he doesn't regularly hear about "breakthrough" cases. Or does he just think people here are not aware of them (don't we all follow the NFL?) and so he needs to share his experience. 

 

I still think it is an attempt to throw stones at the vaccine and those who support it. And next time will just call bullmanure if that. 

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8 hours ago, Big Country said:

I would think that this is to be expected a bit. Even though the vast majority of cases are in the unvaccinated, as the percentage of vaccinated individuals continues to increase, the number of cases in them will likewise increase, even though it is at a far lower rate than in unvaccinated. Add in that certain "media" organizations are looking to bolster the message that vaccines don't work, aren't safe, etc. to get the clicks/views, and you see the cycle we are in.

Totally agree and that makes sense. That's something that's easy to articulate and is easily understood and verified. However, the problem is that you have one side that wants to project the vaccines as being unneeded and the other that wants to hide any shortcomings. It's a formula for the situation that we have now where politics plays such a big part in what people choose or how we react to people's choices and to met, that seems something more by design than happenstance. I know that sounds conspiracy theorish, but I can see little other reason why pretty much everything is so politicized and divisive these days.

 

I think what scares me the most is at some point we reach a variant that has the ability to evade the vaccines like Omnicron and it's much more virulent than anything we've seen to date. That scenario doesn't seem far off to me and I think it's very possible that we see a 2022 that's far beyond what the past two years have been. With a population that's already Covid exhausted, even among the vaccinated, an economy that's already stretching it's limits and a certain section of people who want to whitewash any negative affects or lack of effectivity of the vaccines we could very well see a perfect storm scenario.

 

Quote

I think it is good to share experiences. I have relatives that have died from Covid and were denying it's existence until their last breath, and also have a close relative that is at risk (older and caner survivor) that recently tested positive despite being vaccinated - she's had very minor symptoms. We skipped our Christmas with family and postponed my son's birthday plans  because both my wife and I and 1 of our kids ended up with a cold that was going around here lately (we were negative), but as we had symptoms we didn't want to put anyone at risk in case it was something more (plus I felt like crap), even though our entire family (including everyone we were going to do Christmas and the birthday with) were vaccinated.

Very sorry to hear that BC. I think I count myself very lucky to have not lost anyone so far. A close friend & his son were close to it and in fact he lost his father-in-law just a couple of months after, I've known a few who have been to the hospital as well, but thankfully all have recovered. I know the holidays have been especially tough for a lot of people. My family is one who all will not be denied spending time together regardless of the risks, but at the same time if we're sick in the least we will take the proper precautions to protect the rest of the family as y'all did. Leading up to this Christmas holiday pretty much everyone in my immediate family except my oldest was dealing with colds/sinus infections and every one of us tested negative to make certain we were clear to go.

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1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

Except vaccinated and boosted people contracting the virus (testing positive) is not an outlier, or some kind of rare occurrence. I hear of plenty of people from entertainers (Jimmy Fallon and Seth Myers this past week) to athletes (the many NFL players we've been reading about the past few weeks) to friends and acquaintances who have had these type of cases. If Rajn truly believes people need to be informed about this, I have to wonder what environment he is in that he doesn't regularly hear about "breakthrough" cases. Or does he just think people here are not aware of them (don't we all follow the NFL?) and so he needs to share his experience. 

This is so tedious... I do hear about them all the time. That's the point, steve.

 

Look up what a breakthrough means and then think long and hard about why people/media/politicians are still referring to them as "breakthrough" cases.

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17 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

Look up what a breakthrough means and then think long and hard about why people/media/politicians are still referring to them as "breakthrough" cases.

Public health organizations define "breakthrough cases" as when a fully vaccinated person gets a disease they were vaccinated for. 

The CDC defines it as testing positive for CV-19 at least two weeks after becoming fully vaccinated.  

What's the problem here?

I'm with Steve and Irish; it really seems like something is grinding your gears and you want to instigate debate; but none of us get the point.  

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20 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

This is so tedious... I do hear about them all the time. That's the point, steve.

 

Look up what a breakthrough means and then think long and hard about why people/media/politicians are still referring to them as "breakthrough" cases.

 

So we hear about these all the time, and that is why you had to provide this story of somebody you know testing positive. :rolleyes: 


What should I read about breakthrough cases, is this link below any good? (The basics as Bobby mentioned are things I already knew.) Or do you have some better source that you want me to look at?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html

 

Yes this is tedious, stop beating around the bush and say what you mean. I'd make some guesses but you'll just get offended. 

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4 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

I am a conspiracy theorist, but regarding what you said, I think it's less a conspiracy and more current human nature. I think the divisiveness is less manufactured by the gov and more driven by the average person.

I think the academic "snowflake" movement started some years back was a mistake. Labeling everyone as unique and special was a mistake. Most people (including me) are NOT special. But too many people want (NEED?) to feel special. We're all special to our immediate family and friends, and that's a good thing, but it's not enough for too many.

Virtue-signaling has caused the real solutions of real problems to be eclipsed for the purpose of self-esteem building. 

People want to feel important, so they go to extremes.

"Live and let live" and "do unto others..." are no longer the mantra of society. 

 

Conspiracy theorist = extreme views 

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1 minute ago, stevegrab said:

 

So we hear about these all the time, and that is why you had to provide this story of somebody you know testing positive. :rolleyes: 


What should I read about breakthrough cases, is this link below any good? (The basics as Bobby mentioned are things I already knew.) Or do you have some better source that you want me to look at?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html

 

Yes this is tedious, stop beating around the bush and say what you mean. I'd make some guesses but you'll just get offended. 

I have said what I meant. I can't help it if you're incapable of comprehending.

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1 hour ago, Bobby Brown said:

Public health organizations define "breakthrough cases" as when a fully vaccinated person gets a disease they were vaccinated for. 

The CDC defines it as testing positive for CV-19 at least two weeks after becoming fully vaccinated.  

What's the problem here?

I'm with Steve and Irish; it really seems like something is grinding your gears and you want to instigate debate; but none of us get the point.  

Instigate debate?

 

You got the message when I explained why I posted it the first time ("fair enough") & now you say I'm instigating.

 

So, what is it you guys want to hear about, the 100's of people whom I am regularly in direct contact during the year that have been vaccinated and don't get sick or don't get me sick or the very few that have "breakthrough" cases? Or would you rather me just shut up because I'm not 100% a cheerleader for everything the CDC, WHO, Fauchi, Biden, Trump, MSNBC, CNN, Fox, Democrats and Republicans want to feed me? I'm reading the latter.

 

Here's a repeat of one I've already shared in this thread: I know for a fact that I've been exposed within my household at least twice (including kissing & sleeping next to) and haven't gotten it. At this point they know me by name at the testing clinic for all the times I've been there or brought one of my kids and I have yet to test positive (knock on wood). I got my first shot in March last year, was fully vaccinated in April and got the booster last month. I move freely about the country, go to restaurants, out with friends, go to work, visit family, go to the store, school events, doctor, all without masks if it's allowed which pretty much every place is. I'm not sure what any of that tells you, but there it is. The vaccines have worked for me and my family as far as I can tell with exception to my daughter getting it after being fully vaxxed, but with no more symptoms than a common cold. So, as my family goes, we're probably great examples of the vaccines doing exactly what they're supposed to do. All I know is that for some people it's not and that worries me. I'll try to refrain from sharing that in the future for risk of instigating debate or throwing stones at the vaccine.

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14 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

does anyone have a threshold of how many people (quantity or percentage) are killed by the vax before you say, "this is where I think it's unacceptable"? 

I don't know any numbers, but it would have to be WAY higher than what it is considering the amount of lives it's protecting. This is the main reason why I went ahead with the vaccine, by weighing the risks and as of right now the risk of having a severe case of Covid is so much higher than the risk of adverse affects from the vaccine that it makes it an obvious choice for me and my family. If it means that I can go out and live my life with only a few minor inconveniences and a very, very miniscule risk then, yeah, I'm taking the vaccines. But that doesn't mean that every time we have to take another shot I don't want to know is this ever going to end/are there other options/are we really doing the right things.

Edited by rajncajn
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Rajn,

 

Nobody that I know thinks the vaccine is 100% protection, we've known for some time that there will be vaccinated and boosted people getting it, which we only know when they are sick enough to get tested. Many have and carry the virus and never know.

 

I'm just not sure what you're trying to tell us when you present an anecdote of somebody you know testing positive despite being vaccinated. Based on this last post it sounds like your concern is "maybe the vaccine won't protect me and those I care about." That is a legit concern, but that should have been there from the beginning because it was clear this was not 100% protection. But the key is the vaccine should give you a much better chance of fighting the virus, avoid getting really sick, ending up in the hospital or ICU and dying. 

 

I personally know of at least two who have tested positive with a breakthrough case and have read about countless others from entertainers (Jimmy Fallon and Seth Myers just recently) to the many NFL players who are getting it. The reason those cases are discovered, those groups are regularly tested. 

 

An interesting anecdote or story would be people you know who were vaccinated + boosted and still got extremely sick, ended up in the hospital or worse. Because the overwhelming numbers from every source I've seen say that those people account for 10% or less of people that get very sick and need treatment. 

 

Sorry if I was being confrontational, I guess I misunderstood (or may still not understand) your perspective. 

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12 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

good post.

problem with your post is data, yeah? This is my biggest concern... transparency. Do we have enough info to make informed decisions?

You mention "is ever going to end"... I've heard Israel is doing a fourth shot, some country in northern europe is talking about a 6th shot. I've heard that people with the booster shot are looking down on those with only two shots. What is fully vaxxed? If  you've had only two, should you be considered unvaxxed?

I know someone who's already on their 3rd booster and doing the mix of Pfizer/Moderna. I get it because that person has some very serious health & immunity issues. My wife was also telling me about a coworker's at-risk husband who had multiple shots & boosters with all the big three vaccines before he finally had antibodies show up in his system (don't know the details and hearing it 3rd hand, so don't shoot me if that's inaccurate in any way). I think that there will be outliers with just about everything from people who are unvaxxed who are constantly exposed and never get so much as a sniffle to those who vax the hell out of themselves and still get sick. Those are the kinds of cases that I'm interested in hearing. Apparently not everyone wants to discuss those outliers.

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32 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

So, what is it you guys want to hear about, the 100's of people whom I am regularly in direct contact during the year that have been vaccinated and don't get sick or don't get me sick or the very few that have "breakthrough" cases? Or would you rather me just shut up because I'm not 100% a cheerleader for everything the CDC, WHO, Fauchi, Biden, Trump, MSNBC, CNN, Fox, Democrats and Republicans want to feed me? I'm reading the latter.

 

:rolleyes:

I get it.  You enjoy attacking positions here that no one is taking.  

'Likes to argue guy.'

At least make an effort on not getting so defensive from the mild responses you are generating.  

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7 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

 

:rolleyes:

I get it.  You enjoy attacking positions here that no one is taking.  

'Likes to argue guy.'

At least make an effort on not getting so defensive from the mild responses you are generating.  

Accuses me of attacking positions that no one is taking after Irish, steve & he to a lesser extent attacked me for taking a position that I wasn't taking & even explained multiple times why I posted what I posted and how it had nothing to do with attacking the vaccines and even gave multiple endorsements for the vaccine.

 

Reads my posts leading up to the point where I get the:

Quote

And????? Is there some kind of point to this post? Other than to make it sound like the vaccines are not useful.  Only fools believe being vaccinated/boostered means no chance of getting it. 

 

Let us know when you know people who were vaxxed and boosted who got COVID and were hospitalized, in the ICU, on a ventilator or died. Or maybe you have some facts that show that the reports of the majority (in the 90% range) of those hospitalized and dying are unvaxxed. 

to which he and Irish pile right on and says that my responses are anything but mild and I'M the "likes to argue guy" and "defensive."

 

Woah, that's just too rich!

 

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On 1/3/2022 at 5:21 PM, rajncajn said:

Sharing some more anecdotal,  one of my coworkers just came down with his second case of Covid. He's both vaxed and boosted and still got it.

 

On 1/3/2022 at 5:35 PM, rajncajn said:

Thank you Irish, I really, super-seriously didn't know that. :rolleyes:

 

That's not really the greatest endorsement. 

 

I know his first infection was pretty nasty,  but I don't know the details. I just found out about his recent infection,  so I don't know any more than he had symptoms and got tested. 

 

On 1/3/2022 at 5:50 PM, rajncajn said:

I knew who he was before work,  but he's more a work acquaintance. We're both from the same area and run in overlapping circles, he's just about 10 years older than I am so we never "knew" each other before work.

 

On 1/3/2022 at 5:56 PM, rajncajn said:

That's what she said

 

On 1/3/2022 at 7:16 PM, rajncajn said:

Note to self: Covid vaccines may cause memory loss.

Why and why would you say he was probably not vaccinated?

 

On 1/3/2022 at 7:24 PM, rajncajn said:

Note: Covid vaccines may cause sluggish cognition.

 

On 1/4/2022 at 7:34 AM, rajncajn said:

I'm going with a cancelation effect. Drinking in moderation makes you much less gullible.

 

"Attacking positions, likes to argue, so defensive, SO not mild..." :rofl:

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The last portion of Rajn's prior post quotes something I posted yesterday (starts with "And???") made when I did not see his point, which I kind of do now. 

 

I think Bobby was off base in his last post, I don't think Rajn is just trying to argue. I just think he was voicing a concern (still in danger despite being vaxxed) which wasn't clear to many of us. (Often those against the vaccine site the breakthrough cases as some sort of evidence the vaccines are not useful.)

 

Being vaccinated and boosted is your best defense, you can still get it, but should not get really sick. 

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