Vaxxed or unvaxxed?

[rajncajn]

 

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Nope, just not going to sit by and let others spread misinformation that "masks are basically useless unless they're N95 and a perfect fit".  Especially when the people saying that don't even believe it themselves (as evidence by subsequent posts).

If you have a problem with what Darin said then respond to him, not me. How about read what I post and don't take into account someone else's opinion when you read it? How about when you respond to me you don't keep quoting other people as if I was the one who said it? If you have an issue with something I said then address that or simply don't respond to me. I said that I don't think that the cloth masks are very effective. I don't really care that you think otherwise and I REALLY don't care if you agree with me or not.

 

2 hours ago, stevegrab said:

There was no vaccine for a long time, masks were the only protection along with distancing and just not being in large crowds. My point which has gone over many heads is 50% protection is better than 0% protection.

Where the do you get this 50% number anyway? Maybe it hasn't gone over anyone's head. Maybe everyone is ignoring it because you're pulling it out of your ass. While you're at it, how about also explaining how the water particles that cigarette smoke cling to when exiting your body are somehow a different size than the ones that Covid cling to. You're so worried about other people "spreading misinformation," but you have no issue quoting manure you have no clue about as fact.

 

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I get it, people didn't like wearing masks, and are glad the mandates are gone. But pretending they did no good is just foolish. Its like those who were against vaccine mandates acting like the vaccine was actually more dangerous than COVID itself. All the hyperbole just looks stupid. 

What exactly am I pretending? Let's go back and actually read the things that I actually said about the effectiveness of masks (bolded for emphasis):

 

On 5/2/2022 at 3:38 PM, rajncajn said:

The best way I've seen it described, take a drag on a cigarette and then blow it out through a regular cotton mask and watch how much smoke goes through and where it goes. Now imagine that CV virus particles are infinitely smaller than the smoke and then you can imagine how well a cloth mask might work. Versus no mask, I agree, it's better. But is it good enough to really be worth it?

 

On 5/2/2022 at 6:09 PM, rajncajn said:

CV clings to water particles as an aerosol. Cigarette smoke does the same thing. Or, if you prefer, try the same test with a vape which is a true liquid vapor. The cloth masks that most people are wearing or even the disposable ones don't really appear to do much. Now if someone coughs or sneezes, that's probably a different story. 

 

Also,  the idea that your mask blocks those particles from the air. Maybe that's true to an extent,  but then the particles are in the mask that you are wearing on your face. 

 

On 5/3/2022 at 12:57 PM, rajncajn said:

Unless you treat your mask like hazmat every time you handle it,  it really defeats the purpose. 

You really think I don't know that?

Yes, I think cloth masks are pretty useless for most applications, so what...

 

So, for clarification: I think that the cloth masks that most people are wearing are pretty useless for their intended purpose. Not totally, mind you, but I don't think they're nearly as effective in the prevention or stopping of Covid transmission as most people think they are and I wonder (see my first post) if they do a good enough job to be worth it. Especially if a person is already fully vaccinated. Again, I don't care if you agree with that or not. I am not trying to convince you and if you feel like I am spreading misinformation, then please, feel free to retort. Just make sure that it's something that I actually said that you're trying to refute.

 

Just for reference, here is a link to the National Library of Medicine showing the only facts that I actually purveyed, that cigarette smoke is, in fact, an aerosol as I said:

Chemistry and Toxicology of Cigarette Smoke and Biomarkers of Exposure and Harm - How Tobacco Smoke Causes Disease: The Biology and Behavioral Basis for Smoking-Attributable Disease - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)

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Cigarette smoke is a complex mixture of chemical compounds that are bound to aerosol particles or are free in the gas phase.

 

Smoke from a burning cigarette is a “concentrated aerosol of liquid particles suspended in an atmosphere consisting mainly of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide” (Guerin 1980, p. 201). Researchers have also described cigarette smoke as a “lightly charged, highly concentrated matrix of submicron particles contained in a gas with each particle being a multicompositional collection of compounds arising from distillation, pyrolysis, and combustion of tobacco”

 

At the time it was questioned, I could have simply linked to this article "because I wouldn't sit by and let others spread disinformation," but I had no real interest in trying to be right or trying to prove someone else wrong in order to push my own opinions. I simply was trying to have a discussion, so instead I offered up vaping which is more commonly known as liquid vapor.

 

Everything else I posted was my opinion and I stated it as such. I'm not even fully sold or heavily invested in that opinion either. If you don't like my opinion, I don't care

Edited May 4, 2022 by rajncajn

[rajncajn]

6 hours ago, gilthorp said:

Yes - this WOKE America is crazy. All these cancel woke sheep people are ruining what I remember from the 50's. 

I've read this about 5 times already going through this thread and laugh every time. It's a perfect title for a Mystery Science Theater 3000 movie, "Attack of the Cancel Woke Sheep People!!!" 

[1fastdoc]

Why are y'all still debating this?  It seems like a lot of work to look up various studies, many of which are not peer reviewed nor in respected journals, and then take the time to type stuff up. 

 

We know from the ICU's that N95 masks are effective as staff take care of Covid positive patients without getting the highly contagious virus.   We also know that if you use electrocautery on tissues infected with Covid it aerosolizes it into a dry vapor that can get through an N95 mask, which happened early on in the OR and why we still take a lot of precautions on Covid pos patients beyond just the masks.

 

We also know that contracting the virus and, in many cases, the severity of the infection correlate strongly with the degree of exposure.  So if you wear no mask and get exposed, you're more likely to get sick(er) than if you wore something that reduced the amount of exposure.  

 

I really haven't seen anyone in the medical field argue against mask use where exposure risk is high.  FWIW, most of us in the OR/hospital just wear regular medical masks now that Omicron has passed.  But...

 

There are at least 3 well documented variants in the US now, all stemming from Omicron.  Ultimately, for most it will be a mild cold and most people will not test or they'll use a home test.  Those who don't want to miss work will not divulge the infection and spread it like a common cold.  In that regard, it probably won't disrupt the workforce the way alpha and delta did.  Fortunately kids are nearing the end of the school year so they'll be less likely to get it and transmit it.  With the mask mandate gone and most people not wearing them, we'll get a pretty good idea on how well they worked in the next few months.

[rajncajn]

13 minutes ago, 1fastdoc said:

Why are y'all still debating this?  It seems like a lot of work to look up various studies, many of which are not peer reviewed nor in respected journals, and then take the time to type stuff up. 

I keep asking myself the same question. I thought we'd already moved past that,  but obviously not. 

[League_Champion]

Whatever happened to antibodies? Is that a thing anymore? 

[rajncajn]

6 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

Whatever happened to antibodies? Is that a thing anymore? 

Nothing happened to them,  just like nothing happened to cold or flu antibodies. For some people and some viruses, it's just not enough. 

[League_Champion]

Just now, rajncajn said:

Nothing happened to them,  just like nothing happened to cold or flu antibodies. For some people and some viruses, it's just not enough. 

 

I've had Covid so many times that I piss antibodies. 

[rajncajn]

14 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

I've had Covid so many times that I piss antibodies. 

Your antibodies must really suck. 

[League_Champion]

Just now, rajncajn said:

Your antibodies must really suck. 

 

I've never gotten real sick. The last 2 times were really nothing. How about you? 

[rajncajn]

Well this thread just got really weird. I think I'll go now. 

 

[Big Country]

57 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

Mmmmm, LC warm piss in a pint glass

[League_Champion]

Everyone is just jealous of my superhuman antibody filled piss. My piss could save the World but pharmaceutical companies need to make money 💰. 

😊

[Bobby Brown]

13 hours ago, rajncajn said:

 

If you have a problem with what Darin said then respond to him, not me.

To be fair...I replied to a BC post earlier regarding something Darin premised..and you jumped in the middle of it with a comment trying  to make it about you.

My comment had nothing to do with you so I disengaged. 

You are more like Steve than you think. 

You like to argue.

And this debate with paragraphs of righteousness has gotten really boring. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Bobby Brown

[rajncajn]

5 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

To be fair...I replied to a BC post earlier regarding something Darin premised..and you jumped in the middle of it with a comment trying  to make it about you.

My comment had nothing to do with you so I disengaged. 

You are more like Steve than you think. 

You like to argue.

And this debate with paragraphs of righteousness has gotten really boring. 

If you really want to be fair... BC was responding to both Darin and I, but his post was responding directly to mine. I didn't make anything about me, I assumed you were referring to my post as well since he was quoting me and what you were saying was in direct relation to my post.

Edited May 5, 2022 by rajncajn

[darin3]

On 5/2/2022 at 3:28 PM, Bobby Brown said:

Exactly.  

 

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02786826.2020.1862409

 

I know there are some studies with contradictory data.  But it's not a hotly debated topic whether or not masks mitigate water particles coming out of your pie-hole.  

 

An N95 respirator blocked 99% (standard deviation (SD) 0.3%) of the cough aerosol, a medical grade procedure mask blocked 59% (SD 6.9%), a 3-ply cotton cloth face mask blocked 51% (SD 7.7%), and a polyester neck gaiter blocked 47% (SD 7.5%) as a single layer and 60% (SD 7.2%) when folded into a double layer. In contrast, the face shield blocked 2% (SD 15.3%) of the cough aerosol.

 

18 hours ago, rajncajn said:

Where the do you get this 50% number anyway? Maybe it hasn't gone over anyone's head. Maybe everyone is ignoring it because you're pulling it out of your ass. While you're at it, how about also explaining how the water particles that cigarette smoke cling to when exiting your body are somehow a different size than the ones that Covid cling to. You're so worried about other people "spreading misinformation," but you have no issue quoting manure you have no clue about as fact.

 

Rajn - the 50% number came from BB's link/post, above.  That is what I was going off... and what Stevedrab thinks is an effective number.

[rajncajn]

48 minutes ago, darin3 said:

Rajn - the 50% number came from BB's link/post, above.  That is what I was going off... and what Stevedrab thinks is an effective number.

Ok, thanks. Sorry to Steve that I didn't make that correlation.

 

Having seen people do these tests, I'll just say I'm still very skeptical of those numbers. I'll also say that in a perfect world where everyone treated their mask like a medical professional would, those numbers may be closer to accurate than I think they are. But most people don't do that. Most people are constantly touching  their mask, not wearing a properly fitted one, adjusting it, wearing it under their nose, pulling it off and on, removing it to talk to people and rarely even washing them. They are disgusting petri dishes that you wear over your mouth and nose that not only catch what you are breathing out, but what you are breathing in as well.

Edited May 5, 2022 by rajncajn

[darin3]

Interesting article about mask compliance and COVID

 

And for those of you that don't want to read the entire thing:

 

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Conclusions

 

While no cause-effect conclusions could be inferred from this observational analysis, the lack of negative correlations between mask usage and COVID-19 cases and deaths suggest that the widespread use of masks at a time when an effective intervention was most needed, i.e., during the strong 2020-2021 autumn-winter peak, was not able to reduce COVID-19 transmission. Moreover, the moderate positive correlation between mask usage and deaths in Western Europe also suggests that the universal use of masks may have had harmful unintended consequences.

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by darin3

[League_Champion]

1 hour ago, darin3 said:

Moreover, the moderate positive correlation between mask usage and deaths in Western Europe also suggests that the universal use of masks may have had harmful unintended consequences

 

A lot of people felt and believed that all along, The heathens. 

[Bobby Brown]

1 hour ago, darin3 said:

Interesting article about mask compliance and COVID

 

And for those of you that don't want to read the entire thing:

 

 

I don't have time to read...what are the harmful unintended consequences?

But it appears it's like arguing climate change; for every 97 peer reviewed study that concludes anthropogenic effects are a driver, there are 3 studies that come to the opposite conclusion. 

[League_Champion]

10 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

I don't have time to read...what are the harmful unintended consequences?

But it appears it's like arguing climate change; for every 97 peer reviewed study that concludes anthropogenic effects are a driver, there are 3 studies that come to the opposite conclusion. 

 

Hey Johnny Fact Checker, you don't have to be a rocket scientist or Tony Fauci to know that breathing in your own funk all day is not a good thing. Did you honestly believe that wearing a mask 12 hours a day was good for your health? How about a little common sense people! 

[darin3]

15 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

I don't have time to read...what are the harmful unintended consequences?

But it appears it's like arguing climate change; for every 97 peer reviewed study that concludes anthropogenic effects are a driver, there are 3 studies that come to the opposite conclusion. 

 

They didn't go into detail as to what those "harmful unintended consequences" were.  Dopie, though, came to his own conclusions of course.

 

And  you are spot on.  For every "study" that aims to prove something (and oftentimes makes a compelling, data-driven argument), there is another study that says quite the opposite.

[Bobby Brown]

19 minutes ago, darin3 said:

 

  Dopie, though, came to his own conclusions of course.

Yes - both Beavis and Butthead have enlightened us.  

[League_Champion]

17 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

Yes - both Beavis and Butthead have enlightened us.  

 

Keep wearing a mask Booby, save lives! 

[Bobby Brown]

31 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

Derp

Hey you and your lapdog got excited about something in a study that neither of you can intelligently articulate.

If you posted less and though more, the stupidity wouldn't be so readily apparent.

[League_Champion]

53 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

Hey you and your lapdog got excited about something in a study that neither of you can intelligently articulate.

If you posted less and though more, the stupidity wouldn't be so readily apparent.

 

Wow Booby, that's very poetic. Try using common sense sometimes and stop worrying about the politics of it all. Wearing a mask was never healthy, and even you know that. Mask up Son, they said so.