stevegrab Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 hour ago, gijoerock said: OJ went to trial and Deshaun has not been charged with any crime. You're comparing apple's to oranges. Ok so if DeShaun were charged then the NFL is justified in dropping the hammer? Even if he is later proven not guilty of those charges? But wouldn't that mean an innocent man is being punished? Wouldn't that be more like "innocent until charged"? So guilt/innocence isn't really important. My view is, he's an employee and can be punished for doing things that make your employer look bad for having you as an employee. Doesn't need to be proven in a court of law, or even have criminal charges. There's a ton of civil suits and complaints filed with the police (including 2 women who are not part of a civil suit). That's a lot of smoke, he may not have broken the law but he's far from clean in this. I can understand why the team or league may not want him representing them. Others here seem to want some kind of proof, and think the NFL is over stepping. To that I say, ask yourself what your employer would do if you were accused of even one case of sexual assault and it was well publicized (even if you're an unknown). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millworkguy Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, stevegrab said: My view is, he's an employee and can be punished for doing things that make your employer look bad for having you as an employee. Doesn't need to be proven in a court of law, or even have criminal charges. he may not have broken the law but he's far from clean in this. I can understand why the team or league may not want him representing them. Others here seem to want some kind of proof, and think the NFL is over stepping. To that I say, ask yourself what your employer would do if you were accused of even one case of sexual assault and it was well publicized (even if you're an unknown). I agree with this, there have been a ton of people fired over the years for doing something stupid (but legal) while wearing a t-shirt with their employers logo on it and being photographed doing it If your daughters teacher was being invested for this, would you want them working and teaching your daughter in class? Edited October 28, 2021 by millworkguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, millworkguy said: If your daughters teacher was being invested for this, would you want them working and teaching your daughter in class I get your point and it's a good one. But this is not my daughter's teacher. It's the NFL, where a bunch of meat heads beat each other senseless 17 weeks out of the year. It's hardly a bible study group. And the owners are a bunch of hypocritical creeps as well. How long has this investigation been going on? If there was anything at all don't you think charges would of been filed by now? It's all a show for Daniel Snyder 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijoerock Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 7 hours ago, stevegrab said: Ok so if DeShaun were charged then the NFL is justified in dropping the hammer? Even if he is later proven not guilty of those charges? But wouldn't that mean an innocent man is being punished? Wouldn't that be more like "innocent until charged"? So guilt/innocence isn't really important. My view is, he's an employee and can be punished for doing things that make your employer look bad for having you as an employee. Doesn't need to be proven in a court of law, or even have criminal charges. There's a ton of civil suits and complaints filed with the police (including 2 women who are not part of a civil suit). That's a lot of smoke, he may not have broken the law but he's far from clean in this. I can understand why the team or league may not want him representing them. Others here seem to want some kind of proof, and think the NFL is over stepping. To that I say, ask yourself what your employer would do if you were accused of even one case of sexual assault and it was well publicized (even if you're an unknown). I believe if the NFL had anything to substantiate the allegations Deshaun would have been suspended. Accusations are not admissions of guilt and NFL is given this player his due process. The only reason Deshaun is not playing is because he chose not to play for Houston not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millworkguy Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 I think this is taking along time, because multiple agencies have been involved. 2 months ago the FBI took on the case, the women publicly called the nfl investigation a joke (victim blaming) and if I recall there was some police link so the FBI came in. I wouldn't be surprised if this Isn't the FBI's top priority (after wrapping up a nationwide man hunt a week ago, among other things) as no one was killed (etc etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millworkguy Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Just now, LordOpie said: It could've been over already if the other side agreed to no non -disclosure It could have been over already if Watson agreed he did something wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millworkguy Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 But we are stuck where we are. I've got a buddy going on year 9 on his divorce, both sides have written into their wills that their heirs must keep up the fight. Over a million spent on legal fees so far, and they still don't have a date for trial. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millworkguy Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, LordOpie said: Well that was a disingenuous response You would know exactly what he did if the other side allowed him to tell you He has been telling everyone, he did nothing wrong, all the women are in collusion with each other and he is the victim (or something along those lines). And no, disclosure in this case isn't telling us what happened, it's just telling us what the settlement is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinishTheDrill Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 10 hours ago, stevegrab said: he's an employee and can be punished for doing things that make your employer look bad He's an employee and can be punished for anything the employer deems punishable, so long as its the employer doing the punishing, so to speak, and not a governmental agency/LEO etc. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millworkguy Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Within reason, as a union member the team must work within the CBA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gijoerock Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 28 minutes ago, millworkguy said: Within reason, as a union member the team must work within the CBA Thank you for educating the public prosecutors.... It's called due process people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millworkguy Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 8 hours ago, gijoerock said: Thank you for educating the public prosecutors.... It's called due process people. Except that the CBA also has a personal conduct policy- basically anything that negatively effects the image of the nfl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 1 hour ago, millworkguy said: Except that the CBA also has a personal conduct policy- basically anything that negatively effects the image of the nfl. And the CBA has nothing to do with "due process" * or "innocent until proven guilty". I don't even think it stipulates that the player must be charged with some kind of crime. * Due process is a requirement that legal matters be resolved according to established rules and principles, and that individuals be treated fairly. Due process applies to both civil and criminal matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millworkguy Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 1 hour ago, stevegrab said: And the CBA has nothing to do with "due process" * or "innocent until proven guilty". I don't even think it stipulates that the player must be charged with some kind of crime. * Due process is a requirement that legal matters be resolved according to established rules and principles, and that individuals be treated fairly. Due process applies to both civil and criminal matters. I didn't say it did, others had pointed out that he wasn't playing and hadn't been charged. Typically under a CBA you lose the right to sue your employer, your union has to appeal on your behalf. I find it interesting that his union is saying nothing to get him back into the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, millworkguy said: I didn't say it did, others had pointed out that he wasn't playing and hadn't been charged. Typically under a CBA you lose the right to sue your employer, your union has to appeal on your behalf. I find it interesting that his union is saying nothing to get him back into the game. Sorry guess I should have been more clear, while I was quoting you those things were not directed at you, but the person talking about them. Yes it is odd the NFLPA has had very little to say about this. Certainly different from the response we usually see from a police union when some thing happens that generates interest from the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSuper7 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 39 minutes ago, millworkguy said: I didn't say it did, others had pointed out that he wasn't playing and hadn't been charged. Typically under a CBA you lose the right to sue your employer, your union has to appeal on your behalf. I find it interesting that his union is saying nothing to get him back into the game. Again, convenient for Watson. He doesn't want to play for the Texans. Perhaps they have discussed this with him, but Watson said "Nah, I'm good riding this out as is..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I see the Dolphins have come out and said that Tua is their starter for the rest of the year, that might just kill the Watson trade rumors. I was looking for more updates and one story (on PFT) mentioned that the two teams play each other in week 9, and so waiting as long as possible would be best to prevent Watson from having a chance to play and face his former team. It also mentioned there's no rush to do it this week, and that neither team needs the distraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 23 minutes ago, stevegrab said: I see the Dolphins have come out and said that Tua is their starter for the rest of the year, that might just kill the Watson trade rumors. I was looking for more updates and one story (on PFT) mentioned that the two teams play each other in week 9, and so waiting as long as possible would be best to prevent Watson from having a chance to play and face his former team. It also mentioned there's no rush to do it this week, and that neither team needs the distraction. Seems they are trying to save face since the NFL put a squash on the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 20 minutes ago, League_Champion said: Seems they are trying to save face since the NFL put a squash on the deal. They did? When and how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 18 minutes ago, stevegrab said: They did? When and how? When they said that they don't know what the hell is going on. Probably then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 17 minutes ago, League_Champion said: When they said that they don't know what the hell is going on. Probably then. That's putting the squash on a deal? Got it, you're just flinging poop against the wall as usual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, stevegrab said: That's putting the squash on a deal? Got it, you're just flinging poop against the wall as usual. WTF are you talking about?? They aren't going to accept that trade if the NFL doesn't clear him or endorse it. You're as delusional as the President you voted for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinishTheDrill Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 23 hours ago, millworkguy said: If your daughters teacher was being invested for this, would you want them working and teaching your daughter in class? If they were innocent and the allegations were false, then yes. Sadly, one cant know that unless its investigated. Now that the conversation is moving above and beyond just DW and the NFL, would you want someone falsely accused to lose their livelihood over an accusation? Speaking personally, I have been accused of things by a group with an axe to grind, the allegations were not even remotely true, yet the public perception is that it was true. Social media is a wonderful thing. Were it not for 1 person who stepped in with some evidence conclusively exonerating me, I'd be 110% done in a profession I trained for and excel at. So while I have zero dogs in the DWatson fight, and aside from fantasy scores could care less, when applied to a greater scale I DO NOT think that the Smoke/Fire or "Allegation means Accuracy" should be followed. I almost had my career destroyed, and the people who did it were just being spiteful. Literally lying. Topped with a giggle. I dont put anything past anyone, and think that lying is matter of course for lots of folks. Long winded way, and personally anecdotal, to say that if he is guilty they should prove it, if his actions were agreggious they should fire him/ban him, and if not the conversation should be over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinishTheDrill Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) On 10/28/2021 at 6:46 PM, millworkguy said: I wouldn't be surprised if this Isn't the FBI's top priority That would be sad and incredible. EDIT- Ya know, I reread that again and am now wondering if I took it the right way or not. I meant that it would be sad if Deshaun Watson WAS the FBI's top priority. I'd like to think they have better things to do. I think I read Millwork's post wrong,. Edited October 30, 2021 by FinishTheDrill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, FinishTheDrill said: Long winded way, and personally anecdotal, to say that if he is guilty they should prove it, if his actions were agreggious they should fire him/ban him, and if not the conversation should be over. Amen Brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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