Brian Flores Fired in Miami

[stevegrab]

16 minutes ago, Caveman_Nick said:

People hire assistants from NE, at least in part, to bring some of that winning culture along with them.  Flores didn’t bring enough of it, or didn’t parlay it into winning soon enough.  Easy line to draw.  Sorry you can’t see the connection.

 

I kind of get that connection, but you made it sound like Flores should be able to do what Belichik did. People need to stop thinking that a coach from the BB tree is BB, how many of them had any real success?  

 

We'll see how sound the Pats organization is without BB sometime soon. I know that Skippy McDaniels is waiting for his chance, but I doubt that will work well. 

[League_Champion]

1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

 

I kind of get that connection, but you made it sound like Flores should be able to do what Belichik did. People need to stop thinking that a coach from the BB tree is BB, how many of them had any real success?  

 

We'll see how sound the Pats organization is without BB sometime soon. I know that Skippy McDaniels is waiting for his chance, but I doubt that will work well. 

 

People can say what they want but those players played their asses off for Flores despite their lack of talent. 

[purplemonster]

Looking at that roster, I am not sure how you'd expect Flores do much. He had Fitzpatrick and Tua essentially his whole time, that is not a recipe for winning. RB's were not great (although I would have argued for more Gaskin), WR's were injured or not really that great until the emergence of Waddle. Defense got better. Team was improving. I don't totally get the 'not improving the team' argument. 

[stevegrab]

13 hours ago, purplemonster said:

Looking at that roster, I am not sure how you'd expect Flores do much. He had Fitzpatrick and Tua essentially his whole time, that is not a recipe for winning. RB's were not great (although I would have argued for more Gaskin), WR's were injured or not really that great until the emergence of Waddle. Defense got better. Team was improving. I don't totally get the 'not improving the team' argument. 

He took over a team that had gone 23-25 the last 3 seasons, with one winning season that got a playoff game (followed by 2 losing season). He went 5-11 then 10-6 (same record that got a playoff game for the prior coach) then 9-8 this season which is a small regression. 

 

Just seems like a pattern for the Dolphins, you get 3 seasons, and unless you were good enough (not sure what that criteria is, an overall winning record, a playoff win, ???) you're gone. Just seems like a revolving to me, and the new way of the NFL, if you aren't making and winning playoff games you're not good enough and get at most 3-4 years to prove it. I get the idea that you need to move on when you've seen enough, but some teams expectations for new coaches seem to be pretty high.

 

Most teams with a new coach every 3 years suck. Some of the all time great coaches would not last in this era, Chuck Noll went 12-30 in his first 3 seasons, without a winning season. Then they started winning double digit games and in a few years they were winning SBs. Belichick was 36-44 in 5 years in CLE with one winning season and no playoffs, before going on to greatness in NE (5-11 in year 1, then 11-5 SB winner next).

[Caveman_Nick]

I am not saying that it was the right move.  I am saying that people’s surprise is…surprising.  History shows that this is what teams are going to do, and history shows that organizations flounder in their own mediocrity because they are hampered by their own decision making style and preset parameters for achieving success.  Some metric somewhere tells them that if you haven’t done X in a certain amount of time, it’s time to make a change.

I expected Flores to be fired because of this pattern.

[Big John]

ESPN is reporting he is filing a class action lawsuit claiming racism on why he wasn't hired by another team.

[Wolverines Fan]

PFT picked up the story.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/01/brian-flores-sues-nfl-dolphins-giants-broncos-alleges-racist-hiring-policies/

 

Flores says Dolphins owner Stephen Ross offered to pay him an extra $100,000 per loss during the 2019 season, as Ross wanted the Fish to lose enough games to secure the first overall pick in the 2020 NFL draft.

 

Flores also alleges that Ross tried to get him to recruit “a prominent quarterback” who was under contract to another team, in violation of league tampering rules. Flores says he refused.

 

 

Can we assume the prominent quarterback was Watson?

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Wolverines Fan

[League_Champion]

7 minutes ago, Wolverines Fan said:

PFT picked up the story.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/01/brian-flores-sues-nfl-dolphins-giants-broncos-alleges-racist-hiring-policies/

 

Flores says Dolphins owner Stephen Ross offered to pay him an extra $100,000 per loss during the 2019 season, as Ross wanted the Fish to lose enough games to secure the first overall pick in the 2020 NFL draft.

 

Flores also alleges that Ross tried to get him to recruit “a prominent quarterback” who was under contract to another team, in violation of league tampering rules. Flores says he refused.

 

 

Can we assume the prominent quarterback was Watson?

 

 

 

 

Whoa! This is interesting. 

[Finn5033]

I have no doubt that there is an extreme amount of racism going on in the NFL so I’m not going to argue that point at all, but saying that the NFL is run like a plantation just makes him sound like an idiot. There is no comparison between slavery and men who choose to play a game and make millions of dollars doing so. 

[League_Champion]

1 minute ago, LordOpie said:

Flores also claims that Denver's Ellis and Elway were drunk at the meeting with him

 

Now I know it's true 🙂

[League_Champion]

"Flores says he received a text from his former boss and Patriots head coach days before he interviewed with the Giants. During the conversation, Flores says BB congratulated him on landing the new gig.

BF was confused by the comment because he had yet to go in for his scheduled interview, and asked Bill if he had an inside track to their decision.

Belichick eventually admits he'd misread the information he received ... and tells Flores it was actually a different Brian -- Brian Daboll -- who got the Giants job."

[stevegrab]

52 minutes ago, Finn5033 said:

I have no doubt that there is an extreme amount of racism going on in the NFL so I’m not going to argue that point at all, but saying that the NFL is run like a plantation just makes him sound like an idiot. There is no comparison between slavery and men who choose to play a game and make millions of dollars doing so. 

 

Curious where he said that? It was not in the linked story on PFT. 

 

OK I found this article, which says that the lawsuit makes that allegation, with a pretty specific example. I agree that slavery is different, but can see why they draw this comparison. 

 

“In certain critical ways, the NFL is racially segregated and is managed much like a plantation,’’ the lawsuit said. “Its 32 owners – none of whom are Black – profit substantially from the labor of NFL players, 70% of whom are Black. The owners watch the games from atop NFL stadiums in their luxury boxes, while their majority-Black workforce put their bodies on the line every Sunday, taking vicious hits and suffering debilitating injuries to their bodies and their brains while the NFL and its owners reap billions of dollars.”

 

 

[Wolverines Fan]

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Wolverines Fan

[Big John]

8 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

I now realize this must be true. Otherwise, there's no explanation for hiring fangio.

Must've been drunk

touché 

[purplemonster]

So if this is true Flores was fired for winning too much

[whomper]

The Rooney rule causes a great deal of this. Sometimes you just have your guy you want and you are being forced to interview a minority because of a rule. It isnt fair to you or the candidate . I remember years ago everyone used to drag out Denny Green for a fake interview . Next year Dallas is going to hire Payton. we all know it , yet they will parade two guys in fake interviews . It is more condescending than helpful if you ask me . 

 

Flores will need proof in regards to being asked to tank for money and the yacht situation. If he has that proof , that story is massive. The tanking part especially .Thats bigger than him playing the race card because hes butt hurt that he didnt immediately land a job in his first season after getting fired. Plus he still had interviews left 

[League_Champion]

34 minutes ago, whomper said:

The Rooney rule causes a great deal of this. Sometimes you just have your guy you want and you are being forced to interview a minority because of a rule. It isnt fair to you or the candidate . I remember years ago everyone used to drag out Denny Green for a fake interview . Next year Dallas is going to hire Payton. we all know it , yet they will parade two guys in fake interviews . It is more condescending than helpful if you ask me . 

 

Flores will need proof in regards to being asked to tank for money and the yacht situation. If he has that proof , that story is massive. The tanking part especially .Thats bigger than him playing the race card because hes butt hurt that he didnt immediately land a job in his first season after getting fired. Plus he still had interviews left 

 

And the NFL are the ultimate hypocrites. All the BLM and social justice stuff that they preach seems like pandering. They don't care. 

[Dcat]

50 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

And the NFL are the ultimate hypocrites. All the BLM and social justice stuff that they preach seems like pandering. They don't care. 

 

correctomundo.  Everyone knows that NFL ownership is as racist as they come. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Dcat

[TripleW64]

Hue Jackson chiming in that a similar situation occurred during his time in CLE.

 

Jackson tweeted Tuesday night that Browns owner Jimmy Haslam “was happy we kept losing” and that he was offered “a good number” for each defeat. The director of Jackson’s foundation also charged Browns’ executives Sashi Brown, Paul DePodesta, and Andrew Berry with receiving bonuses for losing games.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-world-reacts-to-wednesdays-hue-jackson-news/ar-AAToQ7n?li=BBnb7Kz

[Dcat]

16 minutes ago, TripleW64 said:

Hue Jackson chiming in that a similar situation occurred during his time in CLE.

 

Jackson tweeted Tuesday night that Browns owner Jimmy Haslam “was happy we kept losing” and that he was offered “a good number” for each defeat. The director of Jackson’s foundation also charged Browns’ executives Sashi Brown, Paul DePodesta, and Andrew Berry with receiving bonuses for losing games.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-world-reacts-to-wednesdays-hue-jackson-news/ar-AAToQ7n?li=BBnb7Kz

 

Good for Jackson.  Perhaps this will all result in far more meaningful accountability on the part of NFL ownership than the practically 100% immunity they have had for the last century.  Goodbye to that!  Finally.  Watch... it is going to happen.  It may take a few years, but this is the catalyst toward more reasonable accountability.    

 

[rajncajn]

LOL, many Saints fans are already all-in on hiring him to replace Payton. He was near the top of my list before this all started and I immediately got cold feet when the news broke, mainly because I was concerned over the massive distraction it would cause the organization. Frankly, I'm well past weary of the Saints being talked about for pretty much everything but the on-field product. But the more I think about it and the more I listen to other fans, the more I think he'd be a perfect fit to replace Payton.

[stevegrab]

1 hour ago, TripleW64 said:

Hue Jackson chiming in that a similar situation occurred during his time in CLE.

 

Jackson tweeted Tuesday night that Browns owner Jimmy Haslam “was happy we kept losing” and that he was offered “a good number” for each defeat. The director of Jackson’s foundation also charged Browns’ executives Sashi Brown, Paul DePodesta, and Andrew Berry with receiving bonuses for losing games.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-world-reacts-to-wednesdays-hue-jackson-news/ar-AAToQ7n?li=BBnb7Kz

 

Sashi Brown is gone, but the other two are still here and Berry is the current GM (was VP of player personnel then). Not good, but not surprising, Jimmy Haslam doesn't appear to be somebody of integrity to me. 

 

There seem to be multiple issues tied up in this, one is racist practices with regard to hiring coaches. The others relate to management trying to create incentives for losing, and tampering with players. 

 

We'll see how much changes as a result. 

 

 

[rajncajn]

There's talk of the David Culley situation being similar in that he was hired with the intent of losing games with no Watson or Watt only to fire him after one season. He was obviously never given any chance to succeed, but got fired anyway. Meanwhile, the Texans are sitting there with the 3rd overall pick in the draft.

[stevegrab]

I'm curious are the claims by these guys about being paid to lose games something people see as part of the racism in the NFL? Would they not ask a white coach? Or is more that these black coaches (now including Culley) were hired specifically to be scape goats for the losing, which they were going to be compensated for?  And that in part ruins their futures in coaching? 

 

I did notice that in the MSN.com article linked before the claim by the guy from Hue Jackson foundation says the NFL (not the Browns, not Haslam) paid the Browns executives for losing. Maybe that's just a mistake in the tweet. I'm not splitting hairs either, big difference in one owner doing something, and the league office doing it (much bigger scandal if the NFL is doing it). 

Here is the tweet 

 

[Shaft]

2 hours ago, stevegrab said:

I'm curious are the claims by these guys about being paid to lose games something people see as part of the racism in the NFL? Would they not ask a white coach? Or is more that these black coaches (now including Culley) were hired specifically to be scape goats for the losing, which they were going to be compensated for?  And that in part ruins their futures in coaching? 

 

I think this is a fair question. I see the "paying to lose" as an aggravating factor in the racist claim. In essence, the "racism" argument can be based on the fact that this man was fired after having two consecutive winning seasons. From 2009-2019, the Dolphins had one winning season in 2016. Then this coach has back to back winning seasons and gets fired. He can make an argument that it was racism because what else would it be? Now, an easy rebuttal is looking at the Dolphins coaching turnover over the past 20 years, no one stays a long time. But subpar coaches like Adam Gase keep getting a chance. 

 

With that being said, he could be targeting the misuse of the Rooney Rule and sham interviews. There is a lot of data to support these claims. I've been asked to look over some of the data and what is very clear is that the Rooney Rule is not effective and can actually lead to racism. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Shaft