gilthorp Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 None of the OU QB's have fared too well in the pro's. With Kyler...no real weapons has a lot to do with his demise of late. Kirk as a #1? No way. AJ is done. He was rattled and a good inside rush and contain will get him beat in games that count. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 15 hours ago, Bier Meister said: It speaks to his development. plus, the browns were heavily impacted by injuries (including him) and covid. I do not believe that this season is a proper measure of his talent (or lack there of) I agree, but of course LC just hates Baker and thinks he's not even a decent backup QB in the NFL. Certainly not worthy of being a starter, since every NFL starting QB is going to be an elite HOF level player. (Yes I'm using hyperbole since that is the world that LC lives in.) He's like a friggin broken record and has never had anything good to say, even when Baker was setting the rookie TD record, or leading his team to a playoff win, the Browns first in decades. I have been reading a series of articles (link below) about what the Browns should do going forward with Mayfield, they look at similar situations where a rookie QB has his 5th year option already taken, but no long term contract. Its kind of hard to follow as they present it, I guess an extra few hundred clicks is always the best way for online media to be presented. This story came after all the options were posted, and is the easiest to follow https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/01/vote-on-how-you-would-handle-baker-mayfield-and-the-browns-qb-situation-for-2022.html This other story was the first one, before the options were presented and doesn't appear to be in the one above. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/01/baker-mayfield-the-biggest-maybe-among-recent-first-round-qbs-as-browns-navigate-the-mayfield-matrix.html Its pretty interesting and I'm still catching up and reading them. The first 2 options are modeled after what the Bucs and Titans did with Winston and Mariota. I haven't read the others yet but they are basically 3) draft a QB early to groom behind Mayfield and take over if he doesn't pan out 4) sign Mayfield to a moderate extension to show more commitment 5) trade Mayfield for a better QB (believe this one is modeled after the Rams trading Goff for Stafford) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 14 hours ago, purplemonster said: Speaking of Kyler I am not clear exactly what his core dysfunction is. Not good enough as a pocket passer? Doesn't read D? Goes to his first read too often? Skittish under pressure? Commitment, wants to play baseball? Not a leader? Maybe some combination of all of the above. He certainly hasn't responded well to adversity, maybe because he hasn't had enough of it until now. That seems to be a problem for many college players coming to the NFL, amplified in QBs because of the high draft picks and expectations. Most of the elite athletes in the NFL could carry a HS team to greatness. Then they get to college, are on an elite team, surrounded by other great athletes, often playing against schools (majority of their opponents) with inferior players. They go thru a 2-4 year career in college rarely losing, winning titles, conferences and big bowl games. Then they get drafted high, come to the NFL and realize in short time that they cannot simply rely on their athleticism and raw talent to get by. Every NFL player is as good as the best of the best you faced prior to that. They lose a lot of games, don't make it to playoffs and can quickly have their confidence shattered. Compare that to somebody like Ben Roethlisberger, didn't play at a big school, had success then got drafted by a team ready to succeed without the need for an elite QB. He had time to grow and learn, and was winning from the beginning, great for ones confidence. As much as I would like to say "if only CLE had drafted him" it is incorrect to believe he would have become the same NFL QB in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 15 hours ago, gilthorp said: Yup...someone has a massive hard on for Baker hate. It propagates his cute little tickle fights with Sad Steve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 59 minutes ago, darin3 said: It propagates his cute little tickle fights with Sad Steve. Don't tell me you're a Baker Mayfield mark as well. You seem to know football, c'mon the guy sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 Just now, LordOpie said: and this is how bad Denver's situation is because I'd take Baker! Somebody is gonna take him, why not? He's better than at least 10 other starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 10 minutes ago, League_Champion said: Don't tell me you're a Baker Mayfield mark as well. You seem to know football, c'mon the guy sucks. I don't think he's a stud, but I don't think he's garbage by any means, either. He had a rough year, but it was one beset by injuries - not just to him but supporting cast too. OBJ and he did not mesh, it happens. Landry is not a #1. He needs himself a go-to WR that commands doubles, thereby opening things up for the run game, TEs and Landry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, darin3 said: I don't think he's a stud, but I don't think he's garbage by any means, either. He had a rough year, but it was one beset by injuries - not just to him but supporting cast too. OBJ and he did not mesh, it happens. Landry is not a #1. He needs himself a go-to WR that commands doubles, thereby opening things up for the run game, TEs and Landry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, darin3 said: I don't think he's a stud, but I don't think he's garbage by any means, either. He had a rough year, but it was one beset by injuries - not just to him but supporting cast too. I obviously over exaggerated because I thoroughly love busting Steve's chops. But I do think that Baker is nothing more than an average QB with a limited skill set. He's been absolutely horrible in crunch time and will do nothing to win you games. Until I'm proven wrong it's facts, no? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, League_Champion said: I obviously over exaggerated because I thoroughly love busting Steve's chops. But I do think that Baker is nothing more than an average QB with a limited skill set. He's been absolutely horrible in crunch time and will do nothing to win you games. Until I'm proven wrong it's facts, no? Nope, still just your opinion, inflated by your giant ego. You are never wrong, at least in your universe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 17 minutes ago, stevegrab said: Nope, still just your opinion, inflated by your giant ego. You are never wrong, at least in your universe. Tell me what statement is wrong. He is absolutely horrible in clutch situations, he's limited by his size, mobility, has little to no awareness, doesn't make anyone better (OBJ) and can't be trusted in the last 2 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 2 hours ago, League_Champion said: Tell me what statement is wrong. He is absolutely horrible in clutch situations, he's limited by his size, mobility, has little to no awareness, doesn't make anyone better (OBJ) and can't be trusted in the last 2 minutes. not sure why I bother, you'll just state more opinion as if it is fact that proves me wrong. Horrible in clutch situations, right so he has zero come from behind wins and game winning drives WRONG stats say otherwise, but hey stats don't matter..... Limited by his size, that's become clear and most recognized that issue early on, and isn't part of your "he sucks" narrative, though later you said he is better than 10 other NFL starters, so I guess they REALLY suck. No mobility, is hogwash, he showed plenty in his first 3 seasons, less this year (injuries). Not sure why but they refused to roll him out much this year. No awareness - sounds like opinion doesn't make anyone better - of course you use OBJ, who nobody can make better because he is super talented but has a massive ego and pouts when he isn't the focus. Others have already pointed out how he benefits from a better QB and Kupp drawing plenty of attention away from him. But hey, you love you some prima donna WRs, not a surprise there. can't be trusted in the last 2 minutes - hmm so he always loses games for them in the final 2 minutes, or fails to win. Care to give some examples? Or would that be just more useless stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, stevegrab said: ? Or would that be just more useless stats? Mayfield finished 30th among 39 qualifying quarterbacks in ProFootballFocus.com's grades. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 20 minutes ago, League_Champion said: Mayfield finished 30th among 39 qualifying quarterbacks in ProFootballFocus.com's grades. End of story. Some folks in the industry absolutely love PFF, others think they're garbage. Going "end of story" based simply on his PFF grade is pretty short-sighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 13 hours ago, darin3 said: Some folks in the industry absolutely love PFF, others think they're garbage. Going "end of story" based simply on his PFF grade is pretty short-sighted. Stats are OK when they support snookis views, otherwise not so much. I wonder how he got the details, I tried to look and they only show the first few rows of info, you have to pay to get more. So is Mr. anti stats a subscriber to PFF's stats? https://www.pff.com/nfl/grades/position/qb That list is clearly not in order, unless people believe Mayfield is better than Rodgers and Mahomes. And this is a ranking for this year, (the really bad word)ING DUH Mayfield had a really bad 2021, with the injuries taking their toll. But hey, that means he sucks, never mind the good seasons in 2019 & 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, stevegrab said: That list is clearly not in order, unless people believe Mayfield is better than Rodgers and Mahomes I guess the real question to you would be, do you think Mayfield can lead the Browns to a Superbowl title? Assuming that's their goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 Plummer....Dillfer. Rex Grossman took the Bears to their last SuperBowl. The Mayfield hate is strange. He is not elite, and that should be something that everyone can agree with. Not a great year for him, but he is far from garbage like LC describes him. And then there is this Davis Mills erection that makes the point of view even more bizarre. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Brown Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I wish we had more threads with Snooki and Steve fighting mixed with Lord Opie off topic posting about the Broncos. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 4 hours ago, League_Champion said: I guess the real question to you would be, do you think Mayfield can lead the Browns to a Superbowl title? Assuming that's their goal. I guess the real question to you is, why the hell do you care so much what the Browns do at QB. He is far better than any starting QB we have had in the past 20+ years. He is not elite, you don't need to be elite to reach the SB, especially if you have a good run game and a good defense. You continue to play games, is he really the worst or are there really 10 starting QBs worse than him. You've presented both views, which makes you sound like an idiot. Where is the great Nick Foles and Carson Wentz who were the QBs in the Eagles success? One is a backup the other looked like crap and lost his team a chance at the playoffs. I get it, you are simply an immature jerk who likes to talk trash. I got the the first few days you posted regularly here. Why some consider you an expert is beyond me. Maybe because you're willing to give advice to hundreds of stupid questions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 1 hour ago, LordOpie said: you not a fan of Plummer? i loved that dude. When Denver was 7-2 and shanny decided to play cutler after the bye, Plummer ignored the OC for the next two games and went school yard playbook. His teammates loved him. Then he choose professional handball player instead of going to Tampa I thought plummer was functional, and cutler with higher risk/reward. Was able to chat with Jake a few times as he visited 2 separate resorts I worked for in the mountains. One time was winter during a slow week (for us and broncos had a bye). nobody at the bar/restaurant and he sat and kept ordering misc tapas. It was just him, the bartender, and myself.... I broke the ice by chatting ASU football (this was around the time he was under scrutiny by den fans). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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