Watson news - won't face criminal charges

[stethant]

um Cleveland just gave this guy how many hundreds of millions in fully guaranteed money? There is no way the owner is having enough buyer's remorse to reverse himself.

[darin3]

Obviously where there's smoke, there's fire... not saying Watson is completely innocent of wrongdoings, but hasn't he already been exonerated by TWO grand juries?  How many times can you just keep putting this crap in front of a judge?  At some point you gotta just say "there's not enough to go on" and toss it out.  The NFL will still suspend him even if he's not found guilty in a court of law.  

 

Is Watson a slimeball?  Probably.  But to be quite frank, I have some "experience" dealing with the folks that have come forward to bash this guy, and lets just say they're not exactly model citizens either.  

 

Something stinks here.  I think the owner of the Texans has his hands in this.  If there's ever a situation where you have multiple people contributing heir own wrongdoings, it's this.  

 

[millworkguy]

Hearing a 24th case is about to be filled 

[millworkguy]

1 hour ago, stethant said:

um Cleveland just gave this guy how many hundreds of millions in fully guaranteed money? There is no way the owner is having enough buyer's remorse to reverse himself.

I read a few articles just after he signed it, he had to disclose all potential legal issues,  and anything not on his list is grounds for them to release him and get out of the contract.

[Riffraff]

36 minutes ago, darin3 said:

Obviously where there's smoke, there's fire... not saying Watson is completely innocent of wrongdoings, but hasn't he already been exonerated by TWO grand juries?  How many times can you just keep putting this crap in front of a judge?  At some point you gotta just say "there's not enough to go on" and toss it out.  The NFL will still suspend him even if he's not found guilty in a court of law.  

 

Is Watson a slimeball?  Probably.  But to be quite frank, I have some "experience" dealing with the folks that have come forward to bash this guy, and lets just say they're not exactly model citizens either.  

 

Something stinks here.  I think the owner of the Texans has his hands in this.  If there's ever a situation where you have multiple people contributing heir own wrongdoings, it's this.  

 

Mentioned before.

The Grand Jury was evaluating criminal offenses. No video, DNA collected, or other people in the room - hard to convict without evidence. This was for 2 cases.

The civil suits only needs 'more likely than not' to award damages. Can use patterns of behavior. This is for 23 (24?) cases.

 

What the latest was said that it's 23 (soon to be 24?)  individual cases, not just 1 class action suit. Though he tried to pay $100k per person as a group.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Riffraff

[League_Champion]

7 hours ago, millworkguy said:

Hearing a 24th case is about to be filled 

 

Yup, that complicates everything. How can the NFL make a ruling on his status when victims are still coming forth? It's bad news for both Watson and the Browns. 

[millworkguy]

Also saw something about Watson being a regular patron at a spa, and the owner testified about how nice a guy he is as he gave her 5000.  She pled the 5th, when asked about text messages between herself and watson.  3 of the 24 cases are were associated with this spa owner, with the 23rd case claiming that the owner was aiding Watson and putting women at risk from him - as she (the owner) knew that Watson would try and get sexual encounters from the women (and which she didn't consent to), 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/06/01/houston-spa-owner-testifies-that-deshaun-watson-paid-her-5000-because-hes-a-nice-person/amp/

Edited June 2, 2022 by millworkguy

[millworkguy]

Watson’s lawyer on a radio show yesterday 

 

Has any man out there had a massage that ended in a happy ending, Getting  one,  Unless you are paying extra for some sort of sexual activity, isn't illegal. Doing something or saying or acting in a way that makes (a woman) uncomfortable isn't a crime

 

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEEcog6dXdHbOO-xr9jR8h0EqMwgEKioIACIQmVkainRlhkortmM2w1uYSSoUCAoiEJlZGop0ZYZKK7ZjNsNbmEkw0YCWBw?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

[millworkguy]

I think his lawyer is an idiot, and wrong.

Flashing is a crime, peeping is a crime, sexual harassment doesn't need to include actual contact, 

 

sexual harassment is unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature in the workplace

 

Ie making someone uncomfortable asking them to give you a happy ending after you paid them for a massage 

 

 now how do you define what the payment is actually for (massage versus happy ending) honestly if the plaintiffs can show a pattern of him looking for a happy ending,  it then goes to reason that he was actually paying for a happy ending and this the encounter was illegal based on his lawyers own admission. (Paying extra for some sort of sexual activity)

[League_Champion]

3 hours ago, millworkguy said:

I think his lawyer is an idiot, and wrong.

Flashing is a crime, peeping is a crime, sexual harassment doesn't need to include actual contact, 

 

sexual harassment is unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature in the workplace

 

Ie making someone uncomfortable asking them to give you a happy ending after you paid them for a massage 

 

 now how do you define what the payment is actually for (massage versus happy ending) honestly if the plaintiffs can show a pattern of him looking for a happy ending,  it then goes to reason that he was actually paying for a happy ending and this the encounter was illegal based on his lawyers own admission. (Paying extra for some sort of sexual activity)

 

I agree, what are the damages? Is this a traumatic experience? If so how traumatizing was it? First you have to prove it happened then prove a level of PTSD. It will be interesting to see what if anything comes from this. He just should of settled the damn case when he had a chance, now it's a pile on regardless. 

[FinishTheDrill]

On 6/2/2022 at 5:52 AM, League_Champion said:

 

Yup, that complicates everything. How can the NFL make a ruling on his status when ALLEGED victims are still coming forth? It's bad news for both Watson and the Browns. 

 

Thats how.

[FinishTheDrill]

In what manner did he force anyone?   

[League_Champion]

5 minutes ago, FinishTheDrill said:

In what manner did he force anyone?   

 

I wasn't there but I don't think he did anything besides be a creep. Serious question; is it a crime if you get a boner during a massage? Because I bet it happens a lot. 

[millworkguy]

1 hour ago, FinishTheDrill said:

In what manner did he force anyone?   

That is not a requirement under civil or criminal courts,  if I flash someone,  or peep into someone's window I didn't force them either. But both are a crime. 

 

But he forced them to look at or touch his junk is the matter of there complaint,  and neither action happens with a registered massage therapist.  

[BillyBalata]

On 6/1/2022 at 8:50 PM, darin3 said:

, but hasn't he already been exonerated by TWO grand juries?  How many times can you just keep putting this crap in front of a judge? 

 

A grand jury doesn't exonerate anyone.  the prosecutor presents evidence to them to get them to decide to indict the defendant. Once they indict it then goes to a judge, the judge asks the grand jury to confirm the indictment and then they can charge them. it's not until after all that happens before they even get charged and then goes to court. I served on a grand jury for a year, 3 days a month we had to show up.  It was basically a rubber stamp. the prosecutor provides his evidence, that's it. nothing else is told to the grand jury, only what the prosecutor wants them to hear. we could ask questions, but there was never anything provided over that  year to defend any of the accused. it was a federal grand jury and we heard cases involving every type of crime you can possibly think of. not once was there a case it was even close to us refusing to indict.

 

I know after 20 some accusations you would think there has to be something there. but dam, if a prosecutor can't get an indictment after two grand juries, to me that says something,  at this point, that prosecutor is some kind of idiot. more likely paid off, even an idiot should be able convince a grand jury to indict. seriously all these women are refusing to appear before the grand jury?  it's all done in secret, no one would actually know until it actually went to trial.

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by BillyBalata

[millworkguy]

2 hours ago, BillyBalata said:

 

I know after 20 some accusations you would think there has to be something there, but dam, if a prosecutor can't get an indictment after two grand juries, to me that says something,  

 

 I think there are 4 things that are serious impediments going on here.

 

1) as darin3 states, the women are massage therapists,  and to alot of people that association has alot of people thinking rub and tug, rather then a professional,  with education, exams and a professional designation.   Many might respect their barista, more then a masseuses. 

 

2) actual knowledge and experience with sexual harassment/assault legislation.   As finishthedrill writes, how did he force them to do anything.   This is the wrong approach to harassment laws.  He "forced them" to endure him.  I can't go up to your wife or daughter compliment her breasts and cleavage and ask her to touch my junk, nor can I smack my waitresses rear end. Or grab thw receptionist and kiss her. While this behavior was "accepted" for numerous years, and is still common in movies and television,  it isn't acceptable, and shouldn't be tolerated now.

 

3) the view and role of women.  Around  2010 the final state passed legislation saying the a wife wasn't property of her husband and was able to say no to him (for sex).  This first occurred in the 1970's and took 40 years to achieve across the United States.   Even till the laten 1960's in Texas beating your wife was legal and not cause for a woman to be granted a divorce from their husband.   Think about the effects of that on kids of the day.  If you grew up watching your father do that, you likely still think that's acceptable and you should be able to do it yourself.  Now a woman stands in front of you saying someone did something inappropriate,  and it doesn't cause you to blink, from the household you grew up in.

 

4) his celebrity status,  some still want to put our sports stars and music stars on pedestals,  and deny that they ever could do anything wrong.  O.J., big ben, kobe where never found guilty in criminal complaints,  but few doubt the "truth".

 

His lawyer's idiot comments the other day, and their attempts to change the narrative of the p.r. have me firmly thinking he is guilty.   Whether the courts or league hold him accountable is another question  but I will not roster him 

Edited June 5, 2022 by millworkguy

[FinishTheDrill]

22 hours ago, millworkguy said:

That is not a requirement under civil or criminal courts,  if I flash someone,  or peep into someone's window I didn't force them either. But both are a crime. 

 

But he forced them to look at or touch his junk is the matter of there complaint,  and neither action happens with a registered massage therapist.  

 

I am not claiming he didnt do something wrong or illegal.

 

I am skeptical in the extreme that its not blown out of proportion due to the potential financial payoff.  

 

 

[FinishTheDrill]

15 hours ago, millworkguy said:

it isn't acceptable, and shouldn't be tolerated now.

 

Agreed.  

 

Some are claiming rape or sexual assault.  I bet Its more like lewd or rude behavior. 

[FinishTheDrill]

15 hours ago, millworkguy said:

he is guilty.

 

of?

[stevegrab]

On 6/1/2022 at 10:25 PM, millworkguy said:

I read a few articles just after he signed it, he had to disclose all potential legal issues,  and anything not on his list is grounds for them to release him and get out of the contract.

 

And what does getting out of the contract do for the Browns?  Like LC said, the draft picks are gone, the relationship with Mayfield broken, and the NFL owners (according to some reports) are not happy about the whole deal. Haslam may as well sell the team and let them move to another city, because they are severely broken if that situation plays out. 

 

Lots of juicy bits of info out there, who knows how much of it is real. 

[millworkguy]

10 hours ago, FinishTheDrill said:

 

Agreed.  

 

Some are claiming rape or sexual assault.  I bet Its more like lewd or rude behavior. 

Interestingly he claims to have never even disrespected a woman in his Browns press conference, (he said that 4 times).

 

 I think its sexual harassment, which is lewd conduct 

[millworkguy]

7 hours ago, stevegrab said:

 

And what does getting out of the contract do for the Browns?  Like LC said, the draft picks are gone, the relationship with Mayfield broken, and the NFL owners (according to some reports) are not happy about the whole deal. Haslam may as well sell the team and let them move to another city, because they are severely broken if that situation plays out. 

 

Lots of juicy bits of info out there, who knows how much of it is real. 

 

Depends on how long he is suspended for,  Big ben got 4 games for 2 alleged incidents,  yes it would be a very tough pill to swallow,  but under a couple different scenarios i could see them wanting to part ways.  

[League_Champion]

This is pretty creepy and graphic.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/24th-lawsuit-filed-against-browns-quarterback-deshaun-watson-alleges-graphic-encounter-165255375.html

 

Here are the claims in the suit.

“Plaintiff immediately stopped the massage. Apparently responding to look of shock on Plaintiff’s face, Watson said to Plaintiff, ‘Relax. It is ok to touch it.’ Plaintiff refused Watson’s entreaties. Watson then stood up and continued masturbating more aggressively. As he did so, Watson asked the Plaintiff ‘Where do you want me to put it?’ Plaintiff by this point was in complete shock and could not speak. She froze. Watson quickly ejaculated; some of his ejaculate got on Plaintiff’s chest and face. Plaintiff immediately left the room, and ran into the bathroom to clean Watson’s ejaculate off of her. Watson offered no apology or explanation for this conduct. He instead got dressed, paid Plaintiff $150 via Cash App and left.”

[Finn5033]

It just shines the light even brighter on an embarrassing situation. The trade, the ridiculous contract, setting up the contract so his base salary is only 1mil this year to help him out for a suspension, the weird creepy introductory press conference. I mean seriously what a disaster. The Browns went from finally being relevant, and fun to watch and cheer for to being the team everyone wants to see crash and burn.

 

I honestly feel bad for the fans. Ownership and management really screwed this one up. It was a desperate move that they took way too far

Edited June 7, 2022 by Finn5033

[purplemonster]

7 hours ago, Finn5033 said:

It just shines the light even brighter on an embarrassing situation. The trade, the ridiculous contract, setting up the contract so his base salary is only 1mil this year to help him out for a suspension, the weird creepy introductory press conference. I mean seriously what a disaster. The Browns went from finally being relevant, and fun to watch and cheer for to being the team everyone wants to see crash and burn.

 

I honestly feel bad for the fans. Ownership and management really screwed this one up. It was a desperate move that they took way too far

Agreed I have not followed every twist and turn here but this is a hot mess and every time I tune in it gets worse