Trade - PHI/NOS

[rajncajn]

11 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

I could see that. It's interesting that Roseman wouldn't let them get up to 15 to leapfrog them, especially since they both need WRs. 

I think the Saints would go tackle first anyway, especially if Penning is still there. I've seen a few mocks having him go to the Chargers at 17, so that would add fuel to the idea of them wanting to jump ahead of them, but the question still remains why now?

[CrazyCajun]

2 hours ago, rajncajn said:

#16 Trevor Penning

#19 Chris Olave

 

Doable with those picks IMO

I really think they will do this or instead of Chris they get Jameson Williams. If I'm not mistaken the Saints have what 9 picks this year. I can see them drafting everyone they want by the 4th round. They will trade all their later draft picks for a mid rounder and be done for the day. Like I said they like quality or quantity. If they like a guy they will move up to get him. Saints have that capital to do so now. We won't know if the Eagles side of the trade won or not. It depends on how the Saints do this year. The Saints and majority of the fans know we have a better team now then last year. We went above .500 with a carousel of a team. All the injuries and Covid and still got 9 wins. So that Eagles first round could be a 20+ pick which is not worth much compared to the first rounders we got this year. 

[DMD]

2 hours ago, darin3 said:

 

Yeah, probably not.  Although @DMD thinks he'll go to the Steelers at #20... after Olave at #16 (formerly the Iggles).

 

I dunno.  A lot of outlets has him as WR1, but some folks think London is the top dog.  It'll be interesting to see.

 

I am not completely sold on Olave personally.

 

Strange to see swapping picks three weeks before the draft. During the draft? Sure, when you know what you can get with a new pick. But this far out is surprising to me.

[millworkguy]

24 minutes ago, DMD said:

 Sure, when you know what you can get with a new pick. But this far out is surprising to me.

 

I'm sure the price would be much higher during the draft, as well as more teams looking to move up,  for the eagles we see alot of early (top 10 picks) move for future 1sts, seeing pick 18 go for a future 1st is surprising (rather then a later 1st plus)

[League_Champion]

9 hours ago, millworkguy said:

 

I'm sure the price would be much higher during the draft, as well as more teams looking to move up,  for the eagles we see alot of early (top 10 picks) move for future 1sts, seeing pick 18 go for a future 1st is surprising (rather then a later 1st plus)

 

I don't think Roseman is done. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes another trade to get into next year's draft. 

[Dcat]

On 4/4/2022 at 5:20 PM, Big Country said:

My highly inaccurate crystal ball is telling me that:

 

Saints are positioning themselves to make another move up for a QB they like this year that can spend a year behind Winston before taking over next year.

 

Eagles still have two 1sts this year that they can use, and now have more ammo next year to move up if they decide they want to move on from Hurts, with next year's QB class projected to be better than this year's.

 

and if they combine two of those firsts to move up, the point value leads directly to #4. Lions, Texans, either of whom could draft a QB, but doubtful for Lions here, at 2 & 3 then  Falcons, Carolina, Giants, Seahawks, Lions again.  4 is a juicy spot if you want tjhe #1 or #2 Qb in this draft.

Bring it.

[Dcat]

17 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

I don't think Roseman is done. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes another trade to get into next year's draft. 

 

Building up capital in case Hurts flops.  Young/Stroud type capital.  And if Hurts excels and they don't need a QB, what value you have with those picks.

Eagles win this trade.

[CrazyCajun]

8 hours ago, Dcat said:

 

Building up capital in case Hurts flops.  Young/Stroud type capital.  And if Hurts excels and they don't need a QB, what value you have with those picks.

Eagles win this trade.

 

I think this trade worked in favor of both teams. Saints are in the mindset of win now. They don't want to waste the phenomenal defense they have. They are only a couple pieces away from being a big contender. The Eagles are building their future. That 1st round pick that the Saints sent is so up in the air. They could do horrible this year and have a top 10 pick or do amazing and have a mid to late 20 picks maybe even 30's. That pick could have a lot of value or not much value. Eagles were probably looking at the win loss estimates the NFL put out and saying Saints wont win much. But, on the flip side the Saints are saying we are a lot better then that and we can win our division. 

 

[stethant]

On 4/4/2022 at 7:39 PM, League_Champion said:

 

Jameis will be just fine 

Ummmm.....beg to differ.  I would consider it better than even money that the Saints are in for a rude awakening this year.

 

Let's see who they get in the draft - could be nice upgrades for them. Personally I think the Saints will trade up again in the first round.

 

How the trade is valued depends on whether you weight draft picks in future years more or less heavy. As with all trades, it really matters more which player(s) you pick.

[CrazyCajun]

9 minutes ago, stethant said:

Ummmm.....beg to differ.  I would consider it better than even money that the Saints are in for a rude awakening this year.

 

Let's see who they get in the draft - could be nice upgrades for them. Personally I think the Saints will trade up again in the first round.

 

How the trade is valued depends on whether you weight draft picks in future years more or less heavy. As with all trades, it really matters more which player(s) you pick.

 

Some many people are counting out the Saints because Payton is gone and Winston is QB. They had a carousel of injuries and covid last year and still went above .500. With all the starters now healthy and using this draft to get that Armstead replacement. They can be a top team. Saints will be the sleeper team this year. Alot of people outside of the Saints bubble think they will be a manurety team but alot of us that paid attention to the team last season know that the NFL is in for a rude awakening this year. You have a 5,000 yard QB ready to be uncuffed with MT and AK. Payton was handcuffing Winston last year. Pete will let him loose. 

[League_Champion]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCajun said:

. Pete will let him loose.

 

You better hope not. Winston is the last QB you want to let loose. And I'm a Jameis fan. 

[CrazyCajun]

36 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

You better hope not. Winston is the last QB you want to let loose. And I'm a Jameis fan. 

 

Dont count him out man. Since he left the Bucs and spent a year under one of the best QBs and the last two years under one of the best offensive minded coach's I been seeing a lot progress and him growing up as a person. He is still a goofy person which is another reason we love him. Also, everyone forgets that Pete Carmichael is still the Offensive Coordinator. Saints had some of the best years when he was calling plays. He is very good at using a players strengths. Payton liked to experiment with manure which got him in trouble a lot or made a players value go down or get them hurt. Like last year he keep using Kamara as a bruiser running back when he is good at a elusive outside run/ pass catching back. He ended up getting hurt. Then for some reason making Taysom the QB when he is a lot better as a TE/WR. We lost a lot of what made that offense good last year. Sorry if my opinions are strong on the subject. I follow the team closely and there is so much potential a lot of people are looking over right now. 

Edited April 6, 2022 by CrazyCajun

[CrazyCajun]

23 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

Other than turnovers, which is very important, he was a great qb for TB. I wanted jameis when nos got him. His yards per attempt was ONE of the best in the league

If he has interceptions under control... And... He's healthy, he should do very well

 

Agree. That's why I am a big believer of him right now. I rathered us sign him then go after Watson when all that went down. The couple years here helped him a lot. His TD to Int ratio was actually pretty good before he got hurt. Also, a few of those interceptions where actually the receiver having butterfingers so it could of been even better if it wasn't for that. He was throwing to a 3rd and 4th stringer trying to be the wr1. 

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, CrazyCajun said:

 

I think this trade worked in favor of both teams. Saints are in the mindset of win now. They don't want to waste the phenomenal defense they have. They are only a couple pieces away from being a big contender. The Eagles are building their future. That 1st round pick that the Saints sent is so up in the air. They could do horrible this year and have a top 10 pick or do amazing and have a mid to late 20 picks maybe even 30's. That pick could have a lot of value or not much value. Eagles were probably looking at the win loss estimates the NFL put out and saying Saints wont win much. But, on the flip side the Saints are saying we are a lot better then that and we can win our division. 

 

 

I guess I had been inspecting this only from the Eagles standpoint.  I dunno.. Saints gave up a lot here for those picks. Everyone and their mothers seem to believe they will be moving up again for a QB.  

[rajncajn]

19 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I guess I had been inspecting this only from the Eagles standpoint.  I dunno.. Saints gave up a lot here for those picks. Everyone and their mothers seem to believe they will be moving up again for a QB.  

It's a popular opinion,  even among Saints fans. It just doesn't seem like a logical conclusion given the Saints needs and the lack of QB talent in the draft. It would make more sense to give Winston a real shot for the next two season by putting some major pieces in place and if that falters then look to draft a QB in 2024 having already built a solid foundation. I could be wrong, I just don't see them hamstringing themselves for the next 3-4 seasons for any QB in this draft.

[CrazyCajun]

55 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

It's a popular opinion,  even among Saints fans. It just doesn't seem like a logical conclusion given the Saints needs and the lack of QB talent in the draft. It would make more sense to give Winston a real shot for the next two season by putting some major pieces in place and if that falters then look to draft a QB in 2024 having already built a solid foundation. I could be wrong, I just don't see them hamstringing themselves for the next 3-4 seasons for any QB in this draft.

 

Happy there is someone else here that knows just as much about the Saints as I and what they want to achieve. They believe in Winston. I will be very surprise if they try to get Pickett or Willis. Logically they will go for a high end WR and OL with those two picks. Then mid rounds I can see Defense and RB.

[League_Champion]

52 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

It's a popular opinion,  even among Saints fans. It just doesn't seem like a logical conclusion given the Saints needs and the lack of QB talent in the draft. It would make more sense to give Winston a real shot for the next two season by putting some major pieces in place and if that falters then look to draft a QB in 2024 having already built a solid foundation. I could be wrong, I just don't see them hamstringing themselves for the next 3-4 seasons for any QB in this draft.

 

Here's what strange to me. You say they are in it to win now, understood. So why not use that draft capital to get veteran players who could help them win now? You're assuming they'll hit on both picks which is far from a given. In my opinion the second & third round picks that they gave up would of went farther in trading for established players. 

[CrazyCajun]

1 minute ago, League_Champion said:

 

Here's what strange to me. You say they are in it to win now, understood. So why not use that draft capital to get veteran players who could help them win now? You're assuming they'll hit on both picks which is far from a given. In my opinion the second & third round picks that they gave up would of went farther in trading for established players. 

 

Cap... They are trying to get back in the Caps good graces. The best was to build cap room is get good talent in draft at a cheaper price. The last two seasons they had to fix -70M Cap budget. Loomis has done well with his wizardry. Last couple years we lost a lot of good players because of Cap issues. 

[League_Champion]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCajun said:

 

Cap... They are trying to get back in the Caps good graces. The best was to build cap room is get good talent in draft at a cheaper price. The last two seasons they had to fix -70M Cap budget. Loomis has done well with his wizardry. Last couple years we lost a lot of good players because of Cap issues. 

 

Fair enough, but have you seen what first round draft picks are getting paid? And again, there's no guarantee that they'll pan out. 

[CrazyCajun]

10 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

Fair enough, but have you seen what first round draft picks are getting paid? And again, there's no guarantee that they'll pan out. 

 

Yeah you right. But, would you pick up a guy you can use for the next 4 or 5 years or pick up a vet that will play for a year maybe two and could be hurt for half of it for the same price or cheaper? You don't have to pay these draft picks a manure load of money. I would rather pick up a guy the Saints view highly and let them work on him. The Saints are pretty good at drafting and developing players in recent years. 

[stethant]

Here's my thinking on this: Dennis Allen we know. Tenure as head coach with Raiders was not positive but that organization was a dumpster fire so best-case scenario that's a mulligan. The scenario at the median is that this is an 8 or 9 win team. Could be wrong and they could outperform for sure - just saying that's what I think a median projection for them would be. Not sure how Vegas sees it.

 

Jameis Winston: agree they limited him last year....but there was a reason for that. I can tell you as a Bucs fan that he would single-handedly lose games, over and over and over again. He is a team killer. I hope he turns it around but his WRs - as of right now - are less compelling for me. What's Kamara's status likely to be?

 

Rajncajn's logic seems right to me - why trade up for a QB in this draft? But if they're not going for a QB I just can't see giving away picks for o-lineman and WRs. I guarantee you if Philly saw the trade as even they would not have made it.

[rajncajn]

9 minutes ago, stethant said:

Rajncajn's logic seems right to me - why trade up for a QB in this draft? But if they're not going for a QB I just can't see giving away picks for o-lineman and WRs. I guarantee you if Philly saw the trade as even they would not have made it.

Historically nearly every time the Saints have moved up in the draft it has been for offensive or defensive linemen. One of Payton's main philosophies has always been that a team is built around those, especially the o-line and I don't see that changing simply because he's no longer there. If Pickett and/or WIllis were to fall to them at 16 then I could see possibly taking one there, but I don't think that will happen either.

 

I know one thing, this move has certainly got teams ahead of them, specifically Atlanta & Carolina, very nervous. If it causes either of them to try to move up to ensure they get a QB then it's all the better for the Saints as well as my hope for what they ultimately do.

[League_Champion]

3 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

If Pickett and/or WIllis were to fall to them at 16 then I could see possibly taking one there, but I don't think that will happen either.

 

They have to be targeting a specific player/position in order to make such a bold move. It's a good draft, not great. They can't rely on anyone falling or being there at 16. If not a QB I think they'll package the 2 picks to get in the top 5 for a can't miss type DE or OT, if they can. 

[Dcat]

43 minutes ago, stethant said:

 

 

Rajncajn's logic seems right to me - why trade up for a QB in this draft? But if they're not going for a QB I just can't see giving away picks for o-lineman and WRs. I guarantee you if Philly saw the trade as even they would not have made it.

 

This is the part that is inexplicable to me if it's not a QB move.  

[rajncajn]

10 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

They have to be targeting a specific player/position in order to make such a bold move. It's a good draft, not great. They can't rely on anyone falling or being there at 16. If not a QB I think they'll package the 2 picks to get in the top 5 for a can't miss type DE or OT, if they can. 

I think they are targeting Cross/Penning at 16 and best WR available at 19. If Cross and Penning are gone by 16 then that only means that Pickett, Willis or an immediate impact defensive player will fall to them. Just take a look at who is projected to go before that 16 pick and the Saints end up still getting an impact player even if it's simply an edge rusher (which they could also really use BTW). I think they'd be fine with any of those scenarios, but ideally it should be one of the tackles IMO.