Trade - PHI/NOS

[League_Champion]

3 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

an immediate impact defensive player will fall to them.

 

You seem awfully sure about that. Most GMs wish it was that easy. 

[Dcat]

5 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

I think they are targeting Cross/Penning at 16 and best WR available at 19. If Cross and Penning are gone by 16 then that only means that Pickett, Willis or an immediate impact defensive player will fall to them. Just take a look at who is projected to go before that 16 pick and the Saints end up still getting an impact player even if it's simply an edge rusher (which they could also really use BTW). I think they'd be fine with any of those scenarios, but ideally it should be one of the tackles IMO.

 

I think either one of Cross or Penning will be at 16.  If one goes, likely to be Cross first.  SO if they are giving up next year's 1st to get a tackle, then it is a very bold move.

[CrazyCajun]

53 minutes ago, Dcat said:

 

I think either one of Cross or Penning will be at 16.  If one goes, likely to be Cross first.  SO if they are giving up next year's 1st to get a tackle, then it is a very bold move.

 

It is but a O-Line can make or break an offense. Saints always had a decent to amazing O-Line over the years.

[rajncajn]

Another FWIW: Someone put up a poll on the Saints board basically saying if LT, QB & WR of choice are on the board at 16, which two do you pick at 16 & 19. It was pretty lopsided with LT edging out WR and most saying LT 1st:

46% LT

46% WR

8% QB.

Edited April 6, 2022 by rajncajn

[League_Champion]

45 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

Another FWIW: Someone put up a poll on the Saints board basically saying if LT, QB & WR of choice are on the board at 16, which two do you pick at 16 & 19. It was pretty lopsided with LT edging out WR and most saying LT 1st:

46% LT

46% WR

8% QB.

 

I would definitely get the tackle first. It's a pretty deep WR draft, they can even trade back and get one, however I don't think that's their plan at all. I think they made this move for something bigger, otherwise they paid way too much for a crapshoot. 

[stevegrab]

17 hours ago, rajncajn said:

Another FWIW: Someone put up a poll on the Saints board basically saying if LT, QB & WR of choice are on the board at 16, which two do you pick at 16 & 19. It was pretty lopsided with LT edging out WR and most saying LT 1st:

46% LT

46% WR

8% QB.

 

Smart fans who know that OL is important and that QB prospects in this draft are limited. 

 

Let those who think they did this to draft a QB keep thinking that. Maybe they can convince other GMs that and it works to the Saints benefit. 

[League_Champion]

1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

 

Smart fans who know that OL is important and that QB prospects in this draft are limited. 

 

Let those who think they did this to draft a QB keep thinking that. Maybe they can convince other GMs that and it works to the Saints benefit. 

 

There will not be a stud lineman there when they pick. They might get a serviceable one there but nothing worth trading those picks for. 

 

They may package both to move up for one of the studs at DE or O-Line. I'd be shocked if they made that move to stay there. 

[rajncajn]

20 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

There will not be a stud lineman there when they pick. They might get a serviceable one there but nothing worth trading those picks for. 

 

They may package both to move up for one of the studs at DE or O-Line. I'd be shocked if they made that move to stay there. 

Who do you consider a stud offensive lineman? Lets look at it a different way... Assuming you're right and all the top end offensive linemen are gone. I count 4, Raimann arguably makes 5, but there's more debate on him, so I'll leave him out of it. Below is a list of the top 25 prospects. Use that list or any other that you want. Assume all 4 of the OTs are taken then look at the rest of the list and show me which of these guys wouldn't be a great pick at 16. Saints needs as I see them:

Major

WR, OT, S

Need

DT,EDGE,RB,QB

Want

TE,OLB,DE,CB

 

#	PLAYER	POS	SCHOOL	CLASS
1	Aidan Hutchinson	DE	Michigan	SR
2	Travon Walker	DE	Georgia	JR
3	Ikem Ekwonu	OT	North Carolina State	JR
4	Evan Neal	OT	Alabama	JR
5	Sauce Gardner	CB	Cincinnati	JR
6	Kayvon Thibodeaux	DE	Oregon	JR
7	Kyle Hamilton	S	Notre Dame	JR
8	Drake London	WR	Southern California	JR
9	Jordan Davis	DT	Georgia	SR
10	Charles Cross	OT	Mississippi State	RSO
11	Garrett Wilson	WR	Ohio State	JR
12	Jermaine Johnson	OLB	Florida State	SR
13	Trevor Penning	OT	Northern Iowa	SR
14	Derek Stingley	CB	LSU	JR
15	Malik Willis	QB	Liberty	SR
16	Chris Olave	WR	Ohio State	SR
17	Trent McDuffie	CB	Washington	JR
18	Kenny Pickett	QB	Pittsburgh	SR
19	Devin Lloyd	ILB	Utah	SR
20	George Karlaftis	DE	Purdue	JR
21	Jameson Williams	WR	Alabama	JR
22	Tyler Linderbaum	C	Iowa	JR
23	Treylon Burks	WR	Arkansas	JR
24	Nakobe Dean	ILB	Georgia	JR
25	Zion Johnson	C	Boston College	SR

 

Even if you don't like Willis or Pickett, if one of them is still there at 16 it's not a bad pick and you still get Wilson, Olave or Williams at WR. Looking at 7 with Kyle Hamilton and assuming someone from that spot to 16... Jordan Davis, Jermaine Johnson, Stingley, McDuffie, Devin Lloyd? Come on, you can't tell me that isn't a great pick there, especially since you're still getting one of those three receivers as well.

[League_Champion]

56 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

Who do you consider a stud offensive lineman? Lets look at it a different way... Assuming you're right and all the top end offensive linemen are gone. I count 4, Raimann arguably makes 5, but there's more debate on him, so I'll leave him out of it. Below is a list of the top 25 prospects. Use that list or any other that you want. Assume all 4 of the OTs are taken then look at the rest of the list and show me which of these guys wouldn't be a great pick at 16. Saints needs as I see them:

Major

WR, OT, S

Need

DT,EDGE,RB,QB

Want

TE,OLB,DE,CB

 

#	PLAYER	POS	SCHOOL	CLASS
1	Aidan Hutchinson	DE	Michigan	SR
2	Travon Walker	DE	Georgia	JR
3	Ikem Ekwonu	OT	North Carolina State	JR
4	Evan Neal	OT	Alabama	JR
5	Sauce Gardner	CB	Cincinnati	JR
6	Kayvon Thibodeaux	DE	Oregon	JR
7	Kyle Hamilton	S	Notre Dame	JR
8	Drake London	WR	Southern California	JR
9	Jordan Davis	DT	Georgia	SR
10	Charles Cross	OT	Mississippi State	RSO
11	Garrett Wilson	WR	Ohio State	JR
12	Jermaine Johnson	OLB	Florida State	SR
13	Trevor Penning	OT	Northern Iowa	SR
14	Derek Stingley	CB	LSU	JR
15	Malik Willis	QB	Liberty	SR
16	Chris Olave	WR	Ohio State	SR
17	Trent McDuffie	CB	Washington	JR
18	Kenny Pickett	QB	Pittsburgh	SR
19	Devin Lloyd	ILB	Utah	SR
20	George Karlaftis	DE	Purdue	JR
21	Jameson Williams	WR	Alabama	JR
22	Tyler Linderbaum	C	Iowa	JR
23	Treylon Burks	WR	Arkansas	JR
24	Nakobe Dean	ILB	Georgia	JR
25	Zion Johnson	C	Boston College	SR

 

Even if you don't like Willis or Pickett, if one of them is still there at 16 it's not a bad pick and you still get Wilson, Olave or Williams at WR. Looking at 7 with Kyle Hamilton and assuming someone from that spot to 16... Jordan Davis, Jermaine Johnson, Stingley, McDuffie, Devin Lloyd? Come on, you can't tell me that isn't a great pick there, especially since you're still getting one of those three receivers as well.

 

You're missing my assumption all together. I don't think they moved all that draft capital to stay put. You can't target someone who may not be there or assume anything. This trade is very reminiscent of when the Eagles positioned themselves to trade up for Wentz. If the Saints traded a 2nd and 3rd round pick, traded out of next years draft (a much better draft) for a mid round first this year then they're crazy. I'm not a psychic but I have a feeling something else is coming, who knows? Just my opinion. 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by League_Champion

[rajncajn]

McShay's updated mock for the Saints:

NFL mock drafts 2022: Compare latest from Mel Kiper, Daniel Jeremiah, Todd McShay, other experts | Sporting News

NFL mock draft 2022 - Todd McShay's predictions for all 64 picks of Rounds 1 and 2, including five QBs, 11 receivers and two more trades (espn.com)

 

16 - Trevor Penning LT
19 - Jordan Davis DT
49 - John Metchie WR

 

In that mock the WRs I'd really like are all gone before 19 (Wilson, London Olave, Williams). It's a tough pill to swallow missing out on one of the top tier 1st round WRs, but I'd still be really happy with this draft. If they don't have a shot at Jordan Davis at 19 and one of the above WRs don't fall there I think I'd be happy with whatever defensive player fell there then possibly safety Jaquan Brisker or a WR in the 2nd.

Edited April 8, 2022 by rajncajn

[CrazyCajun]

55 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

McShay's updated mock for the Saints:

NFL mock drafts 2022: Compare latest from Mel Kiper, Daniel Jeremiah, Todd McShay, other experts | Sporting News

NFL mock draft 2022 - Todd McShay's predictions for all 64 picks of Rounds 1 and 2, including five QBs, 11 receivers and two more trades (espn.com)

 

16 - Trevor Penning LT
19 - Jordan Davis DT
49 - John Metchie WR

 

In that mock the WRs I'd really like are all gone before 19 (Wilson, London Olave, Williams). It's a tough pill to swallow missing out on one of the top tier 1st round WRs, but I'd still be really happy with this draft. If they don't have a shot at Jordan Davis at 19 and one of the above WRs don't fall there I think I'd be happy with whatever defensive player fell there then possibly safety Jaquan Brisker or a WR in the 2nd.

 

I been hearing about this guy called Treylon Burks saying he is a guy like MT that can go up and grab the ball. I dont know alot about him but I been hearing he can be a good pick up for the saints at pick 49. I saw a report saying he can be the next Deebo. Not sure how true it is since I dont know about the guy much. But, apparently he has some big ass hands "custom made 5xl gloves". Sneaky athletic for his size kind of how DK is. 

[rajncajn]

12 minutes ago, CrazyCajun said:

 

I been hearing about this guy called Treylon Burks saying he is a guy like MT that can go up and grab the ball. I dont know alot about him but I been hearing he can be a good pick up for the saints at pick 49. I saw a report saying he can be the next Deebo. Not sure how true it is since I dont know about the guy much. But, apparently he has some big ass hands "custom made 5xl gloves". Sneaky athletic for his size kind of how DK is. 

I doubt Burks is there at 49. If he is then it would be a steal.

[CrazyCajun]

7 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

I doubt Burks is there at 49. If he is then it would be a steal.

 

Lets say at pick 19 he is there and Olave and Williams is not there would you take him or just wait and see? Who would you pick out of those three guys if they are all there? I have heard draw backs on all of them but they are all good talents. 

[millworkguy]

26 minutes ago, CrazyCajun said:

 

Lets say at pick 19 he is there and Olave and Williams is not there would you take him or just wait and see? Who would you pick out of those three guys if they are all there? I have heard draw backs on all of them but they are all good talents. 

Williams is recovering from a torn acl, he may have the highest ceiling (if he returns to form)

Olave is solid wr, who performed beside Garrett Wilson,  not flashy just Get it done

 

 

Burks has been mocked all over the draft, initially we saw alot of him to clev at 13, now we see alot of him to the packers at 22.  He has size speed and skill 6'2" 4.5 second 40 and is often seen as 1 of the top 3 wr's in the draft (Wilson , drake and him)

[rajncajn]

26 minutes ago, CrazyCajun said:

 

Lets say at pick 19 he is there and Olave and Williams is not there would you take him or just wait and see? Who would you pick out of those three guys if they are all there? I have heard draw backs on all of them but they are all good talents. 

I sort of addressed that in my previous post. If just Burks is available then I'd go BPA, which would likely be a defensive player and wait till 49 to grab a receiver. I wouldn't be heartbroken with Burks there, but I think there'd be better value with a defensive player and not a lot of drop-off to what should be still available at WR in the 2nd. If Olave, Jameson Williams and Burks are all there at 19 then I think you have to go with Williams who might be the most talented WR in the draft if it had not been for the injury. My second choice of those three would be Olave simply because I think he better fits our needs, but again, I don't think Burks would be a bad choice either\.

[rajncajn]

2 minutes ago, millworkguy said:

Williams is recovering from a torn acl, he may have the highest ceiling (if he returns to form)

Olave is solid wr, who performed beside Garrett Wilson,  not flashy just Get it done

 

 

Burks has been mocked all over the draft, initially we saw alot of him to clev at 13, now we see alot of him to the packers at 22.  He has size speed and skill 6'2" 4.5 second 40 and is often seen as 1 of the top 3 wr's in the draft (Wilson , drake and him)

Yeah, it's crazy how people have been all over the board with him, but I think with both him & Olave it boils down to how those guys might fit what specific teams are looking for. In the Saints case, they would be looking for someone to compliment Michael Thomas and I think Burks may be too much like Michael Thomas. I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing, but I see Olave as being the perfect compliment the same way he fit with Garret Wilson, so I lean towards him over Burks for us.

[rajncajn]

• @League_Champion I agree that Philly will look to trade the 15 pick to someone wanting to jump ahead of the Saints, but if they end up staying put what do you see them doing with their two picks?

[CrazyCajun]

29 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

I sort of addressed that in my previous post. If just Burks is available then I'd go BPA, which would likely be a defensive player and wait till 49 to grab a receiver. I wouldn't be heartbroken with Burks there, but I think there'd be better value with a defensive player and not a lot of drop-off to what should be still available at WR in the 2nd. If Olave, Jameson Williams and Burks are all there at 19 then I think you have to go with Williams who might be the most talented WR in the draft if it had not been for the injury. My second choice of those three would be Olave simply because I think he better fits our needs, but again, I don't think Burks would be a bad choice either\.

 

Honestly I would rather us get Williams and let him heal for the first half of the year and bring him in for the playoff push. The Saints do very well rehabing ACL and MCL injuries. 

[millworkguy]

45 minutes ago, CrazyCajun said:

 

Honestly I would rather us get Williams and let him heal for the first half of the year and bring him in for the playoff push. The Saints do very well rehabing ACL and MCL injuries. 

I would have thought that they are more about win now, and like @rajncajn said (and I agree) take the complimentary wr

[rajncajn]

8 minutes ago, millworkguy said:

I would have thought that they are more about win now, and like @rajncajn said (and I agree) take the complimentary wr

If it's between Williams and Olave, I think that you can't pass up the talent that Williams would bring. I think that he's just that much better than Olave and the injury doesn't really concern me a lot. Reports are he should be ready for practice around training camp, so I think he should be ready early in the season.

[League_Champion]

1 hour ago, rajncajn said:

• @League_Champion I agree that Philly will look to trade the 15 pick to someone wanting to jump ahead of the Saints, but if they end up staying put what do you see them doing with their two picks?

 

They have so many needs that they could go anywhere. I still think Roseman trades out again to load up for next year's draft. They need a WR2 something bad, D-line, linebacker, CB, etc. If they stay put I can see them going linebacker/corner with those picks. 

[CrazyCajun]

Now I like watching "after further review: saints" on youtube and he is very good at analyzing the saints. He just posted a video talking about QB sleepers. There is some QB sleepers out there from what he is seeing. We could see saints drafting a QB in later rounds to work on and get him ready of the next year or two. I mean Sam Howell was a top ranked draft prospect before last years draft. I wouldnt put it past the saints to do that. Use their first round picks to get what they need now and use their 3rd rounder on a QB with good potential. But, I would rather us draft around Winston. Get a RB and DT/Safety with the 2nd and 3rd pick. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by CrazyCajun

[League_Champion]

22 minutes ago, CrazyCajun said:

Sam Howell was a top ranked draft prospect before last years draft

 

Sam Howell is intriguing but he'd probably cost them a second round pick, which they can definitely do. I was looking at some mocks this morning and most had him between picks 35-50. To me that's a little high but a run on QBs is all it takes. 

[CrazyCajun]

10 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

Sam Howell is intriguing but he'd probably cost them a second round pick, which they can definitely do. I was looking at some mocks this morning and most had him between picks 35-50. To me that's a little high but a run on QBs is all it takes. 

 

Another option I seen was Carson Strong. I was seeing how every year of play since he started college his numbers have been rising showing a lot of progress. He could be a 3rd round option. 

[League_Champion]

37 minutes ago, CrazyCajun said:

 

Another option I seen was Carson Strong. I was seeing how every year of play since he started college his numbers have been rising showing a lot of progress. He could be a 3rd round option. 

 

I'd take a late round flyer on him. Big guy, pocket passer with a cannon arm. Unfortunately he has no mobility and bad knees. CBS Sports predicts Strong to be selected in the third round going to New Orleans at pick #100.