PFF Ranks the Coaches (and boy did they make some gaffes)

[darin3]

ProFootballFocus ranks the coaches

 

Some notable gaffes:

 

*  Kinsgsbury at 4?  I mean, he's a good coach and all.. but ranking him over the likes of Carroll, Shanahan and McVay?  Come on.

 

*  McVay at 11?  Dude is a genius and probably should have been flip-flopped with Kingsbury.

 

*  McDermott is average?  He completely turned the Bills around.

 

*  Taylor at 22?  Needs improvement?  He took one of the laughing stock teams and took them to the Super Bowl.

 

Thoughts/comments?

[League_Champion]

Mike Tomlin deserves way more love. He's been working with dog crap the past few years. 

[stevegrab]

Sounds like pretty flawed methodology, using salaries to determine if a team has talented players. Didn't take a lot of time to dig into their other details used to do rankings. 

 

Definitely agree that Kingsbury is too high and McVay & McDermott too low. Tomlin had a HOF QB for his entire time, and various other talented players on both sides of the ball, his position is not bad. Stefanski would be higher if not for that disaster 2021 season. 

 

You know what would be more meaningful, a poll of NFL coaches and executives on which are the best coaches. 

[Def.]

1 hour ago, darin3 said:

Thoughts/comments?

 

Pete Carroll is not a good coach.  

 

Ranking lists of this nature are complete manure and should be ignored anyways. 

[League_Champion]

47 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

Tomlin had a HOF QB for his entire time

 

It's been years since Tomlin has had anything resembling a HOF QB. Big Ben was shot long ago. 

[darin3]

1 hour ago, Def. said:

 

Pete Carroll is not a good coach.  

 

Ranking lists of this nature are complete manure and should be ignored anyways. 

Yeah, not a huge fan of Carroll although he had some moments there where he looked to be one of the better (or at least top-half) coaches in the league.

 

And yeah these lists are usually garbage but rookie drafts are all but done in most dynasty leagues 'round here and needed some content for LC and Grabber to bicker about.

[stethant]

Mike Tomlin has earned the love. Did they go 8-8 or something when Ben the Rapist went down? Could have been the greatest coaching job ever.

 

Kingsbury is the working definition of a fake sharp. No one is falling for that act anymore.

 

Pete Carroll is completely cooked. McCarthy at #10 is a total farce - it's been YEARS since that guy has added value to a team.

 

Bowles hasn't coached a game yet with Tampa and he's 21st. Ok. Basically what Def. said - this list is largely manure.

[League_Champion]

5 hours ago, darin3 said:

 

*  McDermott is average?  He completely turned the Bills around.

 

Josh Allen turned the Bills around. He did nothing prior. 

[darin3]

34 minutes ago, stethant said:

 McCarthy at #10 is a total farce - it's been YEARS since that guy has added value to a team

 

Yeah that was another one that I scoffed at.  He belongs in the "needs improvement" tier for sure.

[Bobby Brown]

Pete Carroll is not a good coach.

I get that. His X's and O's during gametime frequently leave a lot to be desired. However, the two most successful organizations in the previous decade were the Patriots and then the Seahawks. The third best organization was distant. Has the game passed Carroll by since then? Quite possibly.  

I've always been of the opinion that the the primary job of a NFL coach is to get millionaire athletes to buy into a system and culture. Hearing his players continuing, to this day, parrot his rah rah catch phrases makes him somewhat of a genius from my perspective.

Carroll never really coached play by play scheme as much as he is a 50% general manager/director of operations who delegates nearly all game call responsibilities and sets a philosophical tone. He spurned 3 different NFL head coaches under his tree since his return approximately 10 years ago.  

Carroll's legacy will largely depend on what happens through 2025 when his contracts ends.  But he's by far the best coach in Seahawks franchise history and has missed the playoffs 3 times 11 years.

If that is not good, 95% of coaches are terrible.

  

[League_Champion]

5 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

that is not good, 95% of coaches are terrible

 

He's a good coach who failed to adapt to today's NFL. He coaches like it's 1973. 

[Big John]

The author Conor McQuiston was on NFLN explaining his methodology and said some of the scores were really close.  He is an intern at PFF and looks the part.

[stevegrab]

6 minutes ago, Big John said:

The author Conor McQuiston was on NFLN explaining his methodology and said some of the scores were really close.  He is an intern at PFF and looks the part.

 

From his LinkedIn profile he's a recent Univ of Michigan graduate with a degree in mathematics and physics, a classic egghead. 

[Bobby Brown]

6 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

He's a good coach who failed to adapt to today's NFL. He coaches like it's 1973. 

Hawks were 12-4 season before last, so it's possible the game passed him by just this last season.

He let Russ cook and they threw the ball more than any team in the league; then defenses started adjusting and Russ played like crap.

He hired a young O-coordinator under Shane Waldron's tutelage.

The new D-coordinator this year is supposedly going to change the overall scheme to 3-4 and employ more aggressive fronts. 

Carrol prefers to run and play D more than most coaches.  But, if he's failing to adapt, it's certainly not for lack of trying.  

Shocker, I don't necessarily agree with your hot take hyperbole.  

Edited June 10, 2022 by Bobby Brown

[League_Champion]

12 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

Hawks were 12-4 season before last, so it's possible the game passed him by just this last season.

He let Russ cook and they threw the ball more than any team in the league; then defenses started adjusting and Russ played like crap.

He hired a young O-coordinator under Shane Waldron's tutelage.

The new D-coordinator this year is supposedly going to change the overall scheme to 3-4 and employ more aggressive fronts. 

Carrol prefers to run and play D more than most coaches.  But, if he's failing to adapt, it's certainly not for lack of trying.  

Shocker, I don't necessarily agree with your hot take hyperbole.  

 

Have you ever watched a more boring offense in your life? They had to be the most predictable offense in all of football without question. If you disagree you don't know football. 

 

[purplemonster]

I think this guy is sticking a bit too much to his methodology. McCarthy really does not feel like a #10 coach. His teams rarely seem that prepared, subpar clock mgmt, etc etc. Kingsbury at #4 seems suspicious. Zach Taylor at the bottom after taking a really young and raw team within a whisper of a Super Bowl seems a little ludicrous. Etc.

[Bobby Brown]

29 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

Have you ever watched a more boring offense in your life? 

 

No Snooki,  i haven't.  Watching the last 10 years and Wilson and the Hawks consistently amongst the NFL lead in explosive plays was like watching paint dry.

I wish we could've been more exciting like the Jets.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Bobby Brown

[League_Champion]

38 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

No Snooki,  i haven't.  Watching the last 10 years and Wilson and the Hawks consistently amongst the NFL lead in explosive plays was like watching paint dry.

I wish we could've been more exciting like the Jets.

 

 

They were 16th in PPG last season, boringly average. That's explosive? 

[Bobby Brown]

1 hour ago, purplemonster said:

I think this guy is sticking a bit too much to his methodology. McCarthy really does not feel like a #10 coach. His teams rarely seem that prepared, subpar clock mgmt, etc etc. Kingsbury at #4 seems suspicious. Zach Taylor at the bottom after taking a really young and raw team within a whisper of a Super Bowl seems a little ludicrous. Etc.

McVay at 11 is a head scratcher.

[Docniner]

Most glaring ones were Kingsbury(4) and Carroll(5). These two are not worthy of rankings.that high. Yes there were several that they ranked way too low so I question their judgement of being able to rank coaches where they need to be ranked. Poor rankings.

[stethant]

The funny thing is, there is another PFF youtube product where two guys rank the coaches and it's totally different - and more in line with our thinking, and therefore reality.

 

 

The Coach rankings start about 12-15 minutes in - the first part is about betting.

Edited June 12, 2022 by stethant

[stevegrab]

There's a reason I like a simple list versus listening to a lengthy video, not sure I fully got their lists, but they did offer some good insight, as well as personal biases and odd reasoning. 

 

Each guy had 6 or 7 tiers or maybe 8, not sure either one can count or have their tiers numbered  

 

Both have McVay ranked much higher and Kingsbury and Carroll much lower. Glad to see both have Stefanski pretty high compared to the other list. 

 

guy on left - first 2 tiers are "first tier"

tier 1 - HOF guys = Harbaugh, Reid, Belichick, Tomlin, McVay

tier 2 - not HOF yet = Shanahan, McDermott, Matt LeFleur(GB)

tier 3 (plus guys) - Reich, Stefanski, Vrabel, Staley, Cirianni, Campbell (last 3 taking a leap)

tier 4 (retreads with a chance) - Bowles, Rivera, McCarthy, Pederson, Josh McDaniels, Lovie Smith

tier 5 (lean yes but unknown) - Eberflus, Hackett, Dabol, Saleh

tier 7 (lean no but unknown) - Arthur Smith, Mike McDaniel, O'Connell, Allen

tier 8 - Carroll, Kingsbury, Rhule everybody else

 

 

guy on right - his first 2 tiers are really "HOF - * listing coaches that aren't coaching

tier 1 - Matt LeFleur, Harbaugh, Reich, Reid

tier 2 - Shanahan, McVay, Belichick, Tomlin, McDermott

tier 3 (guys he believes could be top 2 tier) - Stefanski, Vrabel, Staley, Flores *

tier 4 (optimistic) - Hackett, Pederson, Josh McDaniels, O'Connell, Mike McDaniel, Campbell, Bowles, Cirianni, Daboll, Saleh

tier 5 (MEH) - Rivera, Eberflus, Allen, Taylor, McCarthy, 

tier 6 (I'm out start looking) - Carroll, Rhule, Lovie Smith, Kingsbury, Arthur Smith

[League_Champion]

1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

There's a reason I like a simple list versus listening to a lengthy video, not sure I fully got their lists, but they did offer some good insight, as well as personal biases and odd reasoning. 

 

Each guy had 6 or 7 tiers or maybe 8, not sure either one can count or have their tiers numbered  

 

Both have McVay ranked much higher and Kingsbury and Carroll much lower. Glad to see both have Stefanski pretty high compared to the other list. 

 

guy on left - first 2 tiers are "first tier"

tier 1 - HOF guys = Harbaugh, Reid, Belichick, Tomlin, McVay

tier 2 - not HOF yet = Shanahan, McDermott, Matt LeFleur(GB)

tier 3 (plus guys) - Reich, Stefanski, Vrabel, Staley, Cirianni, Campbell (last 3 taking a leap)

tier 4 (retreads with a chance) - Bowles, Rivera, McCarthy, Pederson, Josh McDaniels, Lovie Smith

tier 5 (lean yes but unknown) - Eberflus, Hackett, Dabol, Saleh

tier 7 (lean no but unknown) - Arthur Smith, Mike McDaniel, O'Connell, Allen

tier 8 - Carroll, Kingsbury, Rhule everybody else

 

 

guy on right - his first 2 tiers are really "HOF - * listing coaches that aren't coaching

tier 1 - Matt LeFleur, Harbaugh, Reich, Reid

tier 2 - Shanahan, McVay, Belichick, Tomlin, McDermott

tier 3 (guys he believes could be top 2 tier) - Stefanski, Vrabel, Staley, Flores *

tier 4 (optimistic) - Hackett, Pederson, Josh McDaniels, O'Connell, Mike McDaniel, Campbell, Bowles, Cirianni, Daboll, Saleh

tier 5 (MEH) - Rivera, Eberflus, Allen, Taylor, McCarthy, 

tier 6 (I'm out start looking) - Carroll, Rhule, Lovie Smith, Kingsbury, Arthur Smith

 

Frank Reich tier 1? That's pretty ballsy considering he's done nothing as a head coach. I THINK he's a nice coach who should probably be middle of the pack. 

[stethant]

On 6/13/2022 at 12:44 PM, League_Champion said:

 

Frank Reich tier 1? That's pretty ballsy considering he's done nothing as a head coach. I THINK he's a nice coach who should probably be middle of the pack. 

Yeah the analysts seem to love Reich, and he has had alot of turbulence at QB, but he has yet to have a breakthrough season with Indy.

 

I sort of think this year will be the same story, different QB. Although....Ryan is probably a bit better than Rivers when they had him - and certainly better than Wentz.

 

So, maybe this is the year that Reich puts it all together. Would be great for Ryan too. He needs to wash off that SB collapse.