pzarvell Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 In a recent discussion with another Huddler we discussed the "strategy" of starting a WR from your team to "cancel out" points for your opponent's starting QB. I absolutely can not see how this strategy has any merit what-so-ever. I believe you should ALWAYS start the players you believe will score the most points in a given week regardless of who your opponent is going to start against you. 614300[/snapback] Agreed. To me this is overstating the obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Blitz has some of the best unintended commedy here at the huddle First he says he ain't blowing anything out of proportion: Blown what out of proportion ... you advocated a "cancel your opponent's QB strategy" and I called you out on it ... what is blown out of proportion about that? Then he continues the post by blowing it out of proportion Walker was one of the hottest WR at the end of last season:1 catch 66 yards and 1 TD in week 12 3 catches 93 yards and 1 TD in week 13 4 catches 50 yards and 1 TD in week 14 2 catches 26 yards in week 15 4 catches 124 yards and 2 TDs in week 16 3 catches 41 yards in week 17 5 catches 111 yards and 1 TD in week 18 1 catch 44 yards in week 19 6 TDs in 8 weeks Then after a slow start 2 catches for 27 yards in week 1 of this season he had a nice 7 catches for 102 yards in week 2. What's NOT to like about him going against the Indianapolis defense? Would I have expected him to have 200 yards and 2 TDs ... nope. But I believe most of us would have put him at 100 yards and at least 1 TD. Were you projecting those kinds of numbers for Mason against Jacksonville? 614540[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 (edited) The other way to look at this strategy is that you are canceling out your WR even more than he his QB. WHY? Because a QB throws to more than one guy, a good QB throws it to a bunch. How can one player out of 4-6 that might catch some of the QB balls cancel him out? What if the QB throws three TDs and they all go to the TEs and the RBs? Now you are really behind. Your WR is one of multiple starters at that position on your team, the QB is usually just a single starter. NOTHING you can do with your fantasy team will have a direct impact on what your opponents final score will be. NOTHING!!! Read that again and it deserves repeating… NOTHING YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR FANTASY TEAM WILL HAVE A DIRECT IMPACT ON WHAT YOUR OPPONENTS FINAL SCORE WILL BE. I challenge you to find a single event, except in some bizarro scoring scheme that is not widely used by the majority, to tell me how your actions can effect the final point production of your opponents. You choose your guys, he chooses his guys, they score what they score, you add them up Monday Night, and the player with the most points wins. Pretty simple. This whole thing is sort of like a reverse “Hook Up” argument. You know, starting the QB/WR combo and saying it is double TDs. The whole thing, when looked at logically, either direction makes no sense. It come down to one thing, ALWAYS START YOUR STUDS and then fill in the guys with the best point potential that week. The second part is what makes or breaks you! Edited December 16, 2004 by McBoog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 So jrick ... would you be touting your strategy so highly today had your opponent in week 3 had Steve McNair? 22-1 ... wonder who that ONE is ... apparently 22 of us are wrong though ... 614515[/snapback] I have never said anyone else was wrong. You are the one doing that. And I simply mentioned the strategy, I never even suggested that anyone else try it, let alone TOUT IT SO HIGHLY. I thought I was simply pointing out that there could be a strategy to H2H FF, and gave one possible example. I have said over and over, I do not use this strategy if the choice is obvious, i.e. a Healthy R. Moss over Quincy Morgan or a P. Manning over Vinny Testeverde. I start my studs. I only use this strategy when I have two players of equal abilities and potential for points. At first I thought you missed this part of my post, now I think you are intentionally ignoring it to simply continue this argument. You have repeatedly mis-interpreted what I said. Even the way you wrote the poll choices is mis-leading. You make it seem as though I would bench a stud and start a scrub just to get the matchup I described. That is not what I said. I'm not sure why this is causing you so much consternation but I wish UT would hurry up and post something so you can start going after him again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 It come down to one thing, ALWAYS START YOUR STUDS and then fill in the guys with the best point potential that week. The second part is what makes or breaks you! That's what I do. As I have said several times, I only use this strategy when faced with having to choose between 2 players of equal abilities and POTENTIAL FOR POINTS, with potential for points referring to their respective matchups. Man this has gotten way out of hand. I start my studs. I am in the 2nd rd of the playoffs so I must not suck too bad. I have won leagues before so me being successfulis not unprecedented.. I simply employed a different strategy for choosing 1 player out of 2 basically otherwise equal players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBoog Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Jrick35vdoes something right... Sweet avatar dude One last thing, I NEVER look at my opponents line-up, or who he should start, until the rosters are locked and the games have started. Sure I'll take a quick peek early in the week to see what his NFL matchups look like to get a false sense of security or dread, but I don't care who he starts. All I can control is who I start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 this topic has been killed completely.... I think the thread should be locked... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 16, 2004 Author Share Posted December 16, 2004 (edited) I have never said anyone else was wrong. You are the one doing that. And I simply mentioned the strategy, I never even suggested that anyone else try it, let alone TOUT IT SO HIGHLY. I thought I was simply pointing out that there could be a strategy to H2H FF, and gave one possible example. I have said over and over, I do not use this strategy if the choice is obvious, i.e. a Healthy R. Moss over Quincy Morgan or a P. Manning over Vinny Testeverde. I start my studs. I only use this strategy when I have two players of equal abilities and potential for points. At first I thought you missed this part of my post, now I think you are intentionally ignoring it to simply continue this argument. You have repeatedly mis-interpreted what I said. Even the way you wrote the poll choices is mis-leading. You make it seem as though I would bench a stud and start a scrub just to get the matchup I described. That is not what I said. I'm not sure why this is causing you so much consternation but I wish UT would hurry up and post something so you can start going after him again. 614565[/snapback] I have already said " If you have determined that 2 WRs of equal value both have equally good or equally bad matchups and have projected both WRs to score about the same points then it makes no difference if you choose to start the WR that matches your opponent's QB." However, I don't believe that often happens ... and didn't happen in week 3 for you. Mason had a horrible matchup and Walker had delectable matchup. And when it does happen and you have decided that both WRs are going to score about the same then you could flip a coin and be as successful as starting the WR that matches your opponent's QB. You have failed to answer me when I asked ... did you really believe that Mason and Walker had equal matchups in Jacksonville and Indianapolis? Then I question whether you actually thought they were "equal WRs": On the one hand you said "Mason had been a Top Notch WR for years, Walker was coming off his 2nd 100 yd game ever. ", implying that Mason was the better WR. But you went with Walker instead "to stem the tide of what Favre was going to do, and it worked." Walker didn't "stem the tide" of Favre's points. Favre got his points and was always going to get his points even if you had started Mason. Those points of Walker's could just have easily gone to Driver and where would that leave you? PS. You will note I let you off the hook for that "I started Harrison to counter Manning" statement. Edited December 16, 2004 by Grits and Shins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theeohiostate Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 this topic has been killed completely.... I think the thread should be locked... 614605[/snapback] pad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 16, 2004 Author Share Posted December 16, 2004 39 - 2 ... guess EnD is the other 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 39 - 2 ... guess EnD is the other 1 614891[/snapback] Ha! I knew someone would agree with me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 16, 2004 Author Share Posted December 16, 2004 Ha! I knew someone would agree with me! 614907[/snapback] Just means you are both wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 Just means you are both wrong. 614945[/snapback] I think I get it now. Saying something that disagrees with what Grits says and then having Grits spin it any way he chooses=being wrong. I will try to remember that from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 16, 2004 Author Share Posted December 16, 2004 I think I get it now. Saying something that disagrees with what Grits says and then having Grits spin it any way he chooses=being wrong. I will try to remember that from now on. 614964[/snapback] No not all ... I'm wrong sometimes too ... just not this time. The policy of starting a WR from your team because your opponent has his QB is just asinine no matter how you try to justify it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 No not all ... I'm wrong sometimes too ... just not this time. The policy of starting a WR from your team because your opponent has his QB is just asinine no matter how you try to justify it. 614969[/snapback] And yet you continue to imply that I use this method for all of my starter decisions and not just as a form of tie breaker between, in my opinion, two otherwise equal choices. That's different from what you do but not necessarily wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 And yet you continue to imply that I use this method for all of my starter decisions and not just as a form of tie breaker between, in my opinion, two otherwise equal choices.614983[/snapback] It just doesn't seem like a reasonable tie breaker. I can't imagine a scenario where I couldn't come up with something more substantive to break a tie between two otherwise equal players. It is no less arbitrary than flipping a coin IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 It just doesn't seem like a reasonable tie breaker. I can't imagine a scenario where I couldn't come up with something more substantive to break a tie between two otherwise equal players. It is no less arbitrary than flipping a coin IMO. 615010[/snapback] That's fine. What I don't understand is why it matters to Grits how I make my decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgcoach Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 What would the difference be if someone started a rec. and got 25pts. while being on the opponents's qb team or just starting a different wr that got you 25pts? I don't get it. Some owners in my league do the same thing. It doesn't matter what w/r gets the points. Points are points. There's no such thing as cancelling points, although I would like to have my opponents points cancelled every so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 (edited) What would the difference be if someone started a rec. and got 25pts. while being on the opponents's qb team or just starting a different wr that got you 25pts? I don't get it. Some owners in my league do the same thing. It doesn't matter what w/r gets the points. Points are points. There's no such thing as cancelling points, although I would like to have my opponents points cancelled every so often. 615107[/snapback] Actually the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. I don't use this strategy unless the 2 players in question are otherwise equal. Where it wouldn't matter which 1 I started. Edited December 16, 2004 by Jrick35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I really don't think this is a question of "strategy." I do like it when I've got the other guy's qb's best receiver. That's why I like drafting qb/receiver combo's when possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy n Dirty Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 39 - 2 ... guess EnD is the other 1 614891[/snapback] You would be wrong. The poll was stated in such a manner that only a fool would choose option #2...which was my point in stating what a stupid poll this is. However, the stupidity of the poll question has since been overwhelmed by the stupidity of the ensuing conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 I think I get it now. Saying something that disagrees with what Grits says and then having Grits spin it any way he chooses=being wrong. I will try to remember that from now on. 614964[/snapback] While I agree with Blitz on this issue, both logically and imperically, I have found that to be the best strategy around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grits and Shins Posted December 16, 2004 Author Share Posted December 16, 2004 You would be wrong. The poll was stated in such a manner that only a fool would choose option #2...which was my point in stating what a stupid poll this is. However, the stupidity of the poll question has since been overwhelmed by the stupidity of the ensuing conversation. 615301[/snapback] No more stupid than actually starting a WR on your team because your opponent is starting his QB ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrick35 Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 No more stupid than actually starting a WR on your team because your opponent is starting his QB ... 615313[/snapback] Since this is such a stupid topic, although I stand by the fact that it was only your spin of what I said that made it stupid, then why have you given it so much of your time & attention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted December 16, 2004 Share Posted December 16, 2004 You can put me down as the 3rd vote. Only due to as I use the Start/Bench list, DMD's projections, matchups, weather, home or away, as things to consider in a tough decision, I will take note if one of those wrs would be matched up against his qb. Is it ever the deciding reason? No, but I don't ignore it either. Most leagues, yardage and tds for wrs can be worth more then the qb. Again, is that one td going to make that much difference if it actually happens, probably not. Some of us can't help it when we overthink our lineups each week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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