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Vikings will have losing record in 2005


Guggs
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I can't believe the number of Minnesotans who are happy with this Moss trade. "Get rid of him, nothing but trouble" etc. etc. are some of the comments. Hey, I don't like Moss the person either, but he helps the Vikings, thus, I like him as a player for the Vikings. The Vikes did not get enough for him, defenses pay attention to him so other offensive players get big plays, etc. Their offense is going to suck without him and we will still not have a defense. Simply put, the Vikings will have a losing record in 2005 and then I wonder how these worthless fans who thought it was a good idea to trade Moss will feel!

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I've heard people on the streets for several years now about how the Vikings should trade Randy Moss. These were mostly people that at least knew that Minnesota had a team and it was called the Vikings.

Edited by MikesVikes
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I can't believe the number of Minnesotans who are happy with this Moss trade. "Get rid of him, nothing but trouble" etc. etc. are some of the comments. Hey, I don't like Moss the person either, but he helps the Vikings, thus, I like him as a player for the Vikings. The Vikes did not get enough for him, defenses pay attention to him so other offensive players get big plays, etc. Their offense is going to suck without him and we will still not have a defense. Simply put, the Vikings will have a losing record in 2005 and then I wonder how these worthless fans who thought it was a good idea to trade Moss will feel!

 

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I don't have the link, but I think it was Len Paquarelli of ESPN.com who said that as for value back for him, the Vikes did the best they could. The Raiders were the only real suitor, and both sides knew it. In his opinion, the Vikes did well to get what they did, because most teams (like ATL, which was an attractive option to Moss), didn't want that kind of presence in their locker room. Part of it also has to do with the success of the Pats and their lack of ego-driven stars.

 

The more I think about it, maybe it was some guy on SI.com...

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As long as the Vikes get another WR and address thier defensive needs, I am one of those that think getting rid of Moss is addition by subtraction. Granted, McCombs is an idiot, but he just said he almost fired his head coach for no other reason than to get Moss motivated. Whether or not one thinks Tice should have been fired has no relevance here. The owner was going to fire a coach because one guy was taking too many plays off.

 

If that isnt disruptive, please tell me what is. Even his buddy Culpepper started to talk about how he's had enough. Don't think for a minute that other Viking players didnt notice all the special arse kissing Moss was getting, either. Moss may well behave himself this year.... but he won't change his spots. The negatives he brings outwiegh all the great things he can do on the field, in my opinion. There was a reason Minny didnt get much for him. It would seem that most NFL teams think that despite his amazing talents, he won't make them a better team, on the whole.

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One thing to consider in the Moss trade.

 

The Vikes O without Moss, starting 10/24 against the Titans and going tru 11/21 against the Motor City Kitties, scored 114 points over that 5 game span, which averages out to 22.8 points per game scored.

 

During that time frame, they only scored less than 20 points once and had one 30+ point game! :D

 

On the other hand, the Vikes D surrendered 121 points per game over that 5 game stretch, averaging out to 24.2 points per game given up.

 

During that time frame the Vikes D did have one game where they only gave up a Field Goal to the Titans, but gave up more than 30+ points 3 times! :D

 

Their opponents over that 5 game stretch:

 

Tenn - Win 20 - 3

NY Giants - Loss 13 - 34 :D

Colts - Loss 28 - 31

Packers - Loss 31 - 34

Lions - Win 22 - 19

 

It seems to me that the D for the Vikes is far more of an issue, than whether or not they have Randy Moss on their roster.

 

Could they have gotten more for Moss?

 

Arguably the most talented WR playing the game currently, but no doubt a major headcase and of late, seemingly injury prone.

 

Maybe they could've gotten more, but they got a good young Defensive player in LB Napoleon Harris (definitely a need) and the 7th pick in the 1st round of the upcoming draft.

 

Lets wait and see how the Vikes use the pick and the player selected pans out, before writing this off as a bad trade.

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OK, while we are talking Vikings I am wondering about M Moore. Was he really all that hurt or did alot of his benching have to do with not chasing that pass/fumble and him 'getting a big head' about the numbers he was putting up. I thought he looked really good when he was in there and ran hard and was a real good recieving back as well. Minny should look to deal O Smith or Bennett to try and get more picks or a quality WR(I know the Boldin rumor was out there for awhile). Losing Moss will hurt but in this division(I'm a Lions slappy)it isn't going to take much to finish first next season. Also what is the plan for a back up QB? I've read Miami is interested in Gus and are the Vikes just going to let him go?

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The Vikings barely broke .500 with Moss on the team. To make the prediciton that they'll have a losing record without him is just an excerise in stupidity at this point in time. The Vikings have a lot of money to spend on FA's, some draft choices available, and possibly new ownership ahead of them. How can anyone make an educated prediction until those things play out?

 

Will the absence of Moss affect the team? Of course. But the right leadership could make the most of his absence if they do it right. That remains to be seen.

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If Minnesota can spend some of that money and put together a more balanced and solid team, it would make it more enjoyable to watch when I head down to make my annual Vikings road trip this year. As exciting as it was to watch Moss play, I'd rather see a balanced attack and maybe even see the defense stop someone for a change.

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Guest THEbigred
Let's face it, Minnesotans are not rocket scientists.  They elected Jesse "The Body" Ventura as their governor for christ sake.. :D  :D

 

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I give up: was he all that bad?

 

Re. the trade, big score summed it up well IMO. He was worth more than they got, but they need the defensive boost more than they need Moss, head case or no.

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If I were a Vikings fan I would probably be a little upset. However there are positives in everything. The Viking lockeroom will hopefully become a little more cohesive. Like Bigscore pointed out when Randy went down the Viking offense didn't really falter, they just got outscored. I think the biggest thing they will miss is the intimidation factor that Moss generated on the opposing defenses. That doesn't mean they still can't score, it just might take more teamwork than before.

 

 

Also as we have seen in the past couple of years predicting a teams success or failure is hit and miss. I mean teams like New England, Philly, Indy and I would say the Falcons will probably all still be good teams. Everyone else is going to have to work because who knows who the next up and coming team is going to be.

 

Last year it was the Chargers. Two years ago it was Panthers. 3 years ago it was the Falcons. 4 years ago it was the Ravens. 5 years ago it was the Rams.

 

 

There seems to be less status quo in the league than ever before. Which makes the Patriots run very impressive...........

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Tenn - Win 20 - 3

NY Giants - Loss 13 - 34 :D

Colts - Loss 28 - 31

Packers - Loss 31 - 34

Lions - Win 22 - 19

 

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Look at the five teams they played in that Moss-less stretch though. Not a good defense in the bunch. I think they are going to miss Moss more than everyone thinks. Losing record? I don't know. NFC looks pretty weak still, especially the North. I wonder who gets the TD's inside the 5 yard line now. They used to all go to Moss. Will the Vikings run more? Will Culpepper continue to pass inside the 5 to Burleson and the new WR they draft? Or will Dante just try and run it in himself? Lots of questions for the Minny O now! Regardless, I am downgrading all Minnesota players in the draft until they prove me wrong.

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Well, the Moss trade was sealed as soon as Duante Culpepper told the media that it was time for him to go. If Culpepper--who's relied on Moss, lit up the league with Moss, worked together with Moss to make sure they are both very very very rich men, is disgusted enough with Moss to tell the media that they're better off without Moss . . . you have to get rid of him. They're not going to be effective together. This is Kobe vs. Shaq, talented as they may both be, and as obvious as it is that they make each other better . . . if that relationship sours they won't be productive. After what Moss did, can the Vikes really go back out on the field trusting him? I don't think so.

 

Randy Moss is a natural born Raider, and his antics will be cheered and loved by Al Davis and the Raider Nation. It's a perfect fit.

 

Meanwhile, Nappy Harris is an athlete and a competitor, and the Vikes are in desperate need of both on their D. The 1.7, in this draft, is almost as good as the 1.1 to the Vikes (who aren't in the market for either a QB or an RB). There may be an excellent WR there, and most (if not all) of the top defensive players will be there too. I think this trade actually tilts to the Vikes.

 

What this comes down to is Duante Culpepper. If he is the QB everyone thinks he is, he will elevate the play of those around him. The Vikes will bring in a WR, either through FA or the draft. Frankly, I think he will get exposed this year . . . trying to do it all himself, not letting others make plays, forcing throws, and trying to do it all himself. In other words, what he always does except now it won't work. :P

 

Peace

policy

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The only thing I really don't like at this point is the fact that for the last 20 or so consecutive years, the Vikings have had at least one top-tier, pro-bowl WR on their roster. The early 80's blew, but then Anthony Carter started around '85 or so for the Vikes, and he overlapped with Cris Carter, who in turn overlapped with Randy Moss. Now who do we have? Nobody of note IMO. Not that we need to have that caliber of WR to win, but it's been a part of the team identity for a long time now. Could take some getting used to.

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Let's face it, Minnesotans are not rocket scientists.  They elected Jesse "The Body" Ventura as their governor for christ sake.. :D  :D

 

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Uncalled for Spain. Call out Tice, Red , etc...but for you to say that about Minnesotans in general is not cool. Where are you from Sir Megan Foxbag ?

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The only thing I really don't like at this point is the fact that for the last 20 or so consecutive years, the Vikings have had at least one top-tier, pro-bowl  WR on their roster.  The early 80's blew, but then Anthony Carter started around '85 or so for the Vikes, and he overlapped with Cris Carter, who in turn overlapped with Randy Moss.  Now who do we have?  Nobody of note IMO.  Not that we need to have that caliber of WR to win, but it's been a part of the team identity for a long time now.  Could take some getting used to.

 

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Leo Lewis was the leading receiver when the Vikes went 3-13 under Steckel. That was before AC. That was fun! :D

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Uncalled for Spain.  Call out Tice, Red , etc...but for you to say that about Minnesotans in general is not cool.  Where are you from Sir Megan Foxbag ?

 

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Spain is just doing his job of being Spain. His team drafted Dyson instead of Moss. So that makes him an expert at describing Vikings fans. Fans, I might add, that are all mostly un-related to each other. :D

Edited by MikesVikes
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Let's face it, Minnesotans are not rocket scientists.  They elected Jesse "The Body" Ventura as their governor for christ sake.. :D  :D

 

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Nice Spain. A minnesotan didn't trade moss, but a smart southerner did. He traded that beautiful corvette that looks all bright and shiny and red on the outside, before it was exposed for the lemon that it its. Mark my words, Randy will sit out at least 3 or 4 games next season with a bad ankle or hammy.

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I would not sell Burleson so short.

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Thing of it is, in this day and age of the tall WR, he is a bit short at barely 6' :D

 

Seriously though, Hook brought up some good questions / observations that I think should be looked at:

Look at the five teams they played in that Moss-less stretch though.  Not a good defense in the bunch.

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While this is true, what to me was more telling, was the amount of points the Vikes D gave up against those teams.

34 points to the Giants :bigshock:

31 to Indy is no surprise

34 to the Pack slightly surprising, but not really. Even now, Favre can strap the Pack on his back and will his Team to victory. Plus I think the Packers as a Team, just plain don't like the Vikes and always get up for them.

 

But lets take a look at how the Vikes O & D performed with Moss playing, against some Teams with decent to very good D's, but with erratic, or even sub par O's.

 

Dec 5th - vs - Chicago, with Moss.

Chicago in 2004 had a terrible O, but quite good D, as we all know.

End result? Loss by the Vikes 14 - 24

 

Dec 19th - vs - Detroit, with Moss

The best thing that can be said about the Lions O, is that it made opponents nervous. They were a Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde type offense. You never knew if they were going to blow up....or lay an egg. Their D was middling IMO.

End result? Win (barely!) 28 - 27

 

Jan 2nd - vs - Was, with Moss.

Again in 2004, the Skins had what can only be described as a butt ugly O, but their D was excellent.

This game was extremely important for the Vikes, as it was the last regular season game and final Wild Card berths had yet to be decided. A Win and they're assured of a Post Season berth. A Loss and they're relying on the outcome of other games to find out if they back into the Post Season.

End result? Loss by the Vikes 18 - 21

 

What can we take from the above?

 

Even with Moss playing, the Vikes O can struggle against good D's. However, it is an absolute certainty, that even playing against awful, pitiful, can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag type O's, the Vikes D just plain flat out sucked! :D

 

I wonder who gets the TD's inside the 5 yard line now.  They used to all go to Moss.  Will Culpepper continue to pass inside the 5 to Burleson and the new WR they draft?

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9/12 - vs - Dallas: Marcus Robinson, 3 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper

 

10/10 - vs - Houston: Nate Burleson, 5 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Marcus Robinson, 10 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper

 

10/17 - vs - New Orleans: Jermaine Wiggins, 1 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Jermaine Wiggins, 9 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Marcus Robinson, 1 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper

 

10/24 - vs - Tenneesee: Marcus Robinson, 2 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper

 

10/31 - vs - NY Giants: Nate Burleson, 1 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper

 

11/08 - vs - Indianapolis: Nate Burleson, 8 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper

 

11/14 - vs - Green Bay: Nate Burleson, 8 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper

 

11/21 - vs - Detroit: Jermaine Wiggins, 8 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper // Nate Burleson, 6 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper

 

12/05 - vs - Chicago: Nate Burleson, 4 Yd pass from Daunte Culpepper

 

Of course some of the above passes are outside of the 5 yd line that Hook used as a barometer, but I thought anything from the 10 was a better gauge. Don't get me wrong now, Moss had his fair share of short TD passes, but the object of the exercise was to show that the short TD passing game, isn't going to simply evaporate into thin air, now that Moss is gone.

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Oh!

 

And the Vikes are looking around at available WR's:

 

"The Vikings and Washington Redskins have discussed a trade that would send receiver Rod Gardner to Minnesota, probably for a draft pick.

 

Rob Brzezinski, Vikings vice president of football operations, confirmed he has conducted additional trade discussions since shipping receiver Randy Moss to Oakland last week.

 

Brzezinski would not comment specifically on Gardner but said, "We are looking at every way possible to improve our football team. That includes the possibility of a trade."

 

The 15th overall pick in the 2001 draft and a big target at 6-2, Gardner caught 51 passes for 650 yards with five touchdowns last season."

 

www.startribune.com

 

He ain't no Moss, but Gardner could be serviceable.

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