Who would you want Vick or Brady?

[broncosn05]

You are the HC of an NFL team who you want to build your franchise on Vick or Brady. Vick and his reckless playing style scare a few away but I would take him anyway I think that while you can't change how he plays you can help him out (give him a better OL and a WR who can make the big catches). Vick also should get better and better if he becomes a better student of his playbook. Brady also is a great QB, IMO he gets the job done well but I think he really did struggle against the PIT Defense and MIA Defense which makes me think that if he runs into some 3 good (not spectacular) CBs he won't be able to move the ball efficently.

 

This should be good. Let's go Pats fans and Vick haters. Hey ATL Falcon a little help.

[seminoles]

here is something i will agree with you on. I would take Vick over Brady for the fact that no one will be able to stop Vick once he has fully learned the playbook and (for present time) when Alex Gibbs has fully taught the o-line. but even taking him out of his present situation and building a different team around him, Vick would suceed.

Edited June 11, 2005 by seminoles

[DMD]

Think I'd trade down for more draft picks...

[spain]

So far Brady has had alot better career. I dont know if Vick will ever become the complete qb, but he has some mad athletic skills. On physical tools alone, Vick gets the nod hands down. But playing qb involves so much more than physical tools, just ask Ryan Leaf. Brady has all the other stuff needed to be a great qb that Vick hasnt really displayed that often.

[georgedp]

I know if I were the owner I'd take Vick hands down. He can sell tickets better than anybody.

[Savage Beatings]

As an NFL Head Coach, I'd probably take Brady. Less risk all around. I think Vick will either end up seriously injured, or they will coach him out of his effectiveness. Either way, I don't like the way his future could shape up compared to the consistent play of Brady.

 

In another thread someone did a great job of comparing Brady with Aikman. I think that is right on the money, and who wouldn't have wanted a safe play like Aikman to lead their Superbowl caliber team?

[phenom]

If I'm an expansion team and am building a team then I want Vick hands down.

 

I would probably take Culpepper or P.Manning over Brady too.

 

 

But if I have an established identity to my team and want possibly the final to piece to the puzzle ie QB to lead team to Super Bowl Brady would get high consideration. His skills are easier to integrate into an established team, wouldn't have to reformat the entire offense...........

[Adrenaline]

This wouldn't even be a hard choice for me, Brady is the better QB & a proven winner. If we were talking about a track team or a running back then Vick. I don't think Vick will ever be a top notch passer, people keep saying IF he learns this or improves that. I wouldn't build my team on ifs when there's the choice of a proven QB.

[XFlash]

This wouldn't even be a hard choice for me, Brady is the better QB & a proven winner. If we were talking about a track team or a running back then Vick. I don't think Vick will ever be a top notch passer, people keep saying IF he learns this or improves that. I wouldn't build my team on ifs when there's the choice of a proven QB.

 

838390[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

 

Safe bet is to take Brady.

 

I would go with Vick.

 

You have to remember how QBs like Young, Gannon, Aikeman were not great from the beginning. It takes time for a QB on the average, to improve his play.

 

The main factors that will help, is a stable OL, WR and OC. Vick has the great Gibbs directing the OL and having another year in the WCO will help. He is missing a good #1 WR.

 

Vick will show improvement, but is by far a better QB than Leaf.

[Guest THEbigred]

This wouldn't even be a hard choice for me, Brady is the better QB & a proven winner. If we were talking about a track team or a running back then Vick. I don't think Vick will ever be a top notch passer, people keep saying IF he learns this or improves that. I wouldn't build my team on ifs when there's the choice of a proven QB.

 

838390[/snapback]

 

 

 

Exactly. lol @ taking Vick.

[ATL|Falc0n]

You are the HC of an NFL team who you want to build your franchise on Vick or Brady.  Vick and his reckless playing style scare a few away but I would take him anyway I think that while you can't change how he plays you can help  him out (give him a better OL and a WR who can make the big catches).  Vick also should get better and better if he becomes a better student of his playbook.  Brady also is a great QB, IMO he gets the job done well but I think he really did struggle against the PIT Defense and MIA Defense which makes me think that if he runs into some 3 good (not spectacular) CBs he won't be able to move the ball efficently. 

 

This should be good.  Let's go Pats fans and Vick haters.  Hey ATL Falcon a little help.

 

838218[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

Hehe my bad broncos, late on this one also.

 

Vick, all the way. First, revenue! Vick sells big.

 

Second, Vick has just so much athletic ability, when he gets a superstar receiver that he can throw to (he may not be a top-notch passer, but he's still good, with a lot of velocity on his throws), he'll have more than one threat; he can run more, surprise them more for big gains, first downs, and WINS. -thinks about game against Vikes-

 

My $.02

Edited June 11, 2005 by ATL|Falc0n

[broncosn05]

This wouldn't even be a hard choice for me, Brady is the better QB & a proven winner. If we were talking about a track team or a running back then Vick. I don't think Vick will ever be a top notch passer, people keep saying IF he learns this or improves that. I wouldn't build my team on ifs when there's the choice of a proven QB.

 

838390[/snapback]

 

 

 

This is BS Vick doesn't need to prove himself he already has. He just carried an OK team to a 11-4 season (the last where Schaub played didn't count IMM). Improve that OL this guy can run around 1 DL but not 3. He definetly needs a WR hey maybe TO will fly down to ATL and then kick the whole NFL's arse.

[WaterMan]

Vick's probably one of the Top 3 most feared QBs in the NFL and he's only had, IIRC, 2 real seasons.

 

I can't wait to see him with a somewhat steady pass blocking line and a good WR. They all ready have the run game and defense.

[ATL|Falc0n]

This is BS Vick doesn't need to prove himself he already has.  He just carried an OK team to a 11-4 season (the last where Schaub played didn't count IMM).  Improve that OL this guy can run around 1 DL but not  3.  He definetly needs a WR hey maybe TO will fly down to ATL and then kick the whole NFL's arse.

 

838541[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

"He definetly needs a WR hey maybe TO will fly down to ATL and then kick the whole NFL's arse."

 

Ahha! Jackpot! We sure as heck need this; might work wonders

 

-ATL

[Bill Swerski]

I'd definitely go with Brady. Whether I was starting from scratch or I inherited a team, I'd build my offense around a power running game and would want an intelligent pocket passer (like the '04 Pats, the early/mid '90s Cowboys, or the '70s Steelers squads). IMO, an offense like that would give me a better chance of winning in Foxboro or Green Bay in January than a WCO with a scrambling QB.

 

While Vick's athleticism and his ability to bring another dimension to the offense is appealing, Brady's ability to throw the ball downfield with minimal mistakes is more important, IMO. The time that Vick's missed with injuries over the past few years is also somewhat of a concern. I'm not saying that Vick is "soft," but his style of play certainly makes him more of an injury risk than Brady.

[seminoles]

Hehe my bad broncos, late on this one also.

 

Vick, all the way. First, revenue! Vick sells big.

 

Second, Vick has just so much athletic ability, when he gets a superstar receiver that he can throw to (he may not be a top-notch passer, but he's still good, with a lot of velocity on his throws), he'll have more than one threat; he can run more, surprise them more for big gains, first downs, and WINS. -thinks about game against Vikes-

 

My $.02 

 

838525[/snapback]

 

 

 

see, now i have to argue with people who love certain players. remember from the tailgate, look at issues two sided. well for vick here i go:

you say that he sells big. well if Vick doesnt improve and goes 8-8 a bunch, people wont care that much about what vick does. and for superstar reciever, he had peerless price. now i wont say peerless is a superstar, but he is better that what he has produced in Atlanta. and for vick running, if you have noticed, the LB's in the league have been getting faster. look at the 49ers, they are running freaking 4.4 40s! Vicks speed soon wont be such a great a factor when a 4.35 40 running LB is spying him. this means he will have to learn the offense. people last year said he would become better over the course of the year.

week 7 = 13.9 passer rating

week 12 = 29.1 pr

week 14 = 51.8 pr

week 3 playoffs = 46.5 pr

 

look his passer rating in the month when it counts = 52.9

he had a 13.9 pr in week 7 to KC, a horrible defense.

he had a 46.9 pr against arizona, another bad defense.

a 63.4 pr against his own division

how does he play when he is ahead by 9-16 points in a game. he has a 48.5 pr.

within his own 50 yard line, he has a sub 65 pr.

in the last two minutes of a half he has a 49.5 pr.

 

why am i bringing this up? i am trying to say that he is in his 5th year and hasnt learned much. to build a team around a guy who is this iffy is a big risk.

[ATL|Falc0n]

see, now i have to argue with people who love certain players. remember from the tailgate, look at issues two sided. well for vick here i go:

you say that he sells big. well if Vick doesnt improve and goes 8-8 a bunch, people wont care that much about what vick does. and for superstar reciever, he had peerless price. now i wont say peerless is a superstar, but he is better that what he has produced in Atlanta. and for vick running, if you have noticed, the LB's in the league have been getting faster. look at the 49ers, they are running freaking 4.4 40s! Vicks speed soon wont be such a great a factor when a 4.35 40 running LB is spying him. this means he will have to learn the offense. people last year said he would become better over the course of the year.

week 7 = 13.9 passer rating

week 12 = 29.1 pr

week 14 = 51.8 pr

week 3 playoffs = 46.5 pr

 

look his passer rating in the month when it counts = 52.9

he had a 13.9 pr in week 7 to KC, a horrible defense.

he had a 46.9 pr against arizona, another bad defense.

a 63.4 pr against his own division

how does he play when he is ahead by 9-16 points in a game. he has a 48.5 pr.

within his own 50 yard line, he has a sub 65 pr.

in the last two minutes of a half he has a 49.5 pr.

 

why am i bringing this up? i am trying to say that he is in his 5th year and hasnt learned much. to build a team around a guy who is this iffy is a big risk.

 

838760[/snapback]

 

 

 

 

I realize his passing isn't great. But, you have to realize that he still hasn't learned the west coast offense yet, either. And, the LB's may be getting faster, but Vick's still got his shakes. Yes, may not pull as long TD's, which I know is bad for Fantasy, but he can still break some. When he does get the west coast offense learned, I will want to see his results. If they are still subpar, then yes I would take Brady. Can't argue with the rings...but you can't forget his D.

 

By superstar WR, I mean a top 5 or 6 receiver. Price is not top 5 or 6...

 

I have nothing against Brady. He's smart in the pocket, and seems to get better when the time calls for it, like the playoffs. But I still take Vick. I know he has his ifs, mainly with the passing game. I know he has a powerful arm; if he can make good, quality throws, he can be dominant. As Ikirc said, "God help the NFL if Vick ever adds passing downfield to his arsenal."

I'd give him 1 or 2 seasons; then, if not, Brady.

 

And: Falcons did not 8-8 last season. They actually went 11-5.

 

That less biased?

-ATL

[seminoles]

I realize his passing isn't great. But, you have to realize that he still hasn't learned the west coast offense yet, either. And, the LB's may be getting faster, but Vick's still got his shakes. Yes, may not pull as long TD's, which I know is bad for Fantasy, but he can still break some. When he does get the west coast offense learned, I will want to see his results. If they are still subpar, then yes I would take Brady. Can't argue with the rings...but you can't forget his D.

 

By superstar WR, I mean a top 5 or 6 receiver. Price is not top 5 or 6...

 

I have nothing against Brady. He's smart in the pocket, and seems to get better when the time calls for it, like the playoffs. But I still take Vick. I know he has his ifs, mainly with the passing game. I know he has a powerful arm; if he can make good, quality throws, he can be dominant. As Ikirc said, "God help the NFL if Vick ever adds passing downfield to his arsenal."

I'd give him 1 or 2 seasons; then, if not, Brady.

 

And: Falcons did not 8-8 last season. They actually went 11-5.

 

That less biased?  

-ATL

 

838792[/snapback]

 

 

 

if anyone out there knows, can someone tell me how long it is suppose to take to learn the wc offense? i really dont know. but then again, i think going through a whole season and still not knowing it is bad. and for Vick's shakes, for and more safeties are becoming LB's too.

it is hard to say that you must wait for him to get a top five WR. the thing is, there are five of them, and 32 teams cant share them. and when you are talking about powerful arm, look at Jeff George, point made.

and the point about 8-8, i know that they did good last year. i am just saying that if he doesnt improve then the team will decline over time and maybe get a bunch of average seasons. which in result, make people mad at vick.

[Grits and Shins]

You couldn't pay me to take Vick. He doesn't know how to pass the ball. He will never have a top 5 WR because he can complete enough passes. He runs first and passes as an after thought.

 

I'd take Brady over Vick 10 out of 10 days of the week.

[phenom]

People who say they don't want Vick are not looking at his ability to lead a team. You can talk about his passing deficiencies or his athletic ability but the bottom line is winning. This is about if you are a winner or not.

 

 

In his 2 full seasons as the Falcons starting QB (2002 and 2004) the Falcons are 20-11-1. Both times they made the playoff's. After the Falcons Super Bowl year in 98 until 2002 their record was 16-32. The year that Vick was hurt the Falcons went 5-11 with 3 of those wins coming when Vick came back at the end of the year. The next year the Falcons are 11-5.

 

Must be coincidence.

 

He has taken the Falcons to the playoff's and the NFC championship game. He's already shown more potential than many of the other #1 QB's picks like Tim Couch, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, David Carr. Whether everyone agree's or not his name is mentioned as a MVP canidate and one of the best players in the game.

 

 

But you know I really don't think there will be any debate as his career goes along. He's going to keep winning and I think he has a very good chance to win a Super Bowl. When you win you can brush the haters off anyway..........

[Chargerz]

Brady is a steady producer week-in and week-out.

 

Vick will score big every so often, but then he'll fall flat on his face other weeks.

 

The "score big" part attracts alot of fantasy football owners, but I prefer Brady's consistent production myself.

[broncosn05]

People who say they don't want Vick are not  looking at his ability to lead a team.  You can talk about his passing deficiencies or his athletic ability but the bottom line is winning.  This is about if you are a winner or not.

In his 2 full seasons as the Falcons starting QB (2002 and 2004) the Falcons are 20-11-1.  Both times they made the playoff's.  After the Falcons Super Bowl year in 98 until 2002 their record was 16-32.  The year that Vick was hurt the Falcons went 5-11 with 3 of those wins coming when Vick came back at the end of the year.  The next year the Falcons are 11-5. 

 

Must be coincidence.

 

He has taken the Falcons to the playoff's and the NFC championship game.  He's already shown more potential than many of the other #1 QB's picks like Tim Couch, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, David Carr.  Whether everyone agree's or not his name is mentioned as a MVP canidate and one of the best players in the game.

But you know I really don't think there will be any debate as his career goes along.  He's going to keep winning and I think he has a very good chance to win a Super Bowl.  When you win you can brush the haters off anyway..........

 

838847[/snapback]

 

 

 

[SeductiveNun]

Brady is a steady producer week-in and week-out.

 

Vick will score big every so often, but then he'll fall flat on his face other weeks.

 

The "score big" part attracts alot of fantasy football owners, but I prefer Brady's consistent production myself.

 

838848[/snapback]

 

 

 

Here here

 

What Chargerz said.

 

I think that works for NFL owners too.

[Perchoutofwater]

Think I'd trade down for more draft picks...

 

838293[/snapback]

 

 

 

Kind of my thinking. If forced to take one of the two, I'd take Brady, the 2nd most over-rated QB in the NFL over the most over-rated QB in the NFL.

[Sox]

This topic is laughable.How can there be any other choice,between the two,other than Brady?

 

Phenom,he's shown more potential than Carson Palmer?Palmer had a 382 yard passing game,on the road,against one of the best defenses in the league,Baltimore,in only his 12th NFL start.Show me a game like that from Vick who has four seasons under his belt.

 

Vick is also a horribly innacurate passer,with a career completion percentage of 53.6.AWESOME!!!

 

He has no receivers?Peerless Price seemed to be pretty good...when he had a QB that could deliver him the ball.

 

An injury prone QB who likes to run the ball first is a recipe for disaster.

 

In summation,Vick may well be the most over-rated QB in the league.He is more spectacular than good.His running highlights are fun to watch,but a poor passing,injury prone QB who likes to run the ball isn't who I want behind center on my team.

 

Brady hands down.

Edited June 12, 2005 by Sox