Obama in the elephant's den

[Ursa Majoris]

Quick fact check for apologists for the Repblicans "slash and burn" obstructionism.

 

During the two year term of the 109th Congress, when the Dem's were still the minority party, there were 52 cloture votes. A Cloture vote is demanding a "super majority" to avoid a filibuster.

 

In ONE year of the Republicans being the minority in the Senate, ther have already been 60 cloture votes needed. Including on simple procedural motions, which only wastes time. The all-time cloture record is 61 over a TWO YEAR period. We already have 60 one year in!

 

In the face of those immutable FACTS, how can anyone say that the current minority is being anything BUT unnecessarily obstructionist, and preventing ANY business from getting done?

Oh dear. How embarrassing for them.

[pig devilz]

^^ agree and agree.....

Thanks for looking that up bp. I knew that number was way out of whack.

 

tos, I hear you, but listen to yourself. You are sounding a bit tit-for-tat.

 

You're proving my point. Tit-for-tat will get everybody nowhere.

I voted for Obama, among other reasons, because I wanted change. And if you listen to the pols, so did the rest of the nation.

Change is NOT cliche to me.

 

I saw Obama as the best hope for change possible. So damn it, I want change! Not the same old same old.

If I would have seen McCain as the better for change, I might have voted for him.

 

I intend to hold Obama's feet to the fire on change. But right now and for the last 11 months I have seen

mostly obstruction to change from the Repubs. They have been more obstinate that anything. Including

furthering their own agenda. Of course they have been met with some resistance from the dems, but not

resistance for resistance sake.

[bpwallace49]

^^ agree and agree.....

Thanks for looking that up bp. I knew that number was way out of whack.

 

tos, I hear you, but listen to yourself. You are sounding a bit tit-for-tat.

 

Anytime . . . and tos is pretty set in his ways. I have him on ignore once he started getting personal . . . I hope he hasnt started to insult others that he doesnt agree with.

[gbpfan1231]

Anytime . . . and tos is pretty set in his ways. I have him on ignore once he started getting personal . . . I hope he hasnt started to insult others that he doesnt agree with.

You are not set in your ways? Come on!

 

I am not sure but maybe some of those votes were warranted? The fact that the health care was being done behind closed doors and was a frickin debacle may have been some reasons behind it???

 

It does sound like the repubs did offer up some health care options but a lot of things you read is that the Dems totally disregarded those. To always say the repubs are at fault I think is asinine. It is BOTH faults.

 

Bush was a joke but I don't see what Obama and the Libs are doing is anything to write home about. I really think this dude that was annointed the savior is a wee bit in over his head.

[pig devilz]

Bush was a joke but I don't see what Obama and the Libs are doing is anything to write home about. I really think this dude that was annointed the savior is a wee bit in over his head.

this is a bit of a shot, and I know it, but,

ANYBODY other than Bush, in my book, is a Savior.

[bpwallace49]

Gbfan . . that is the whole damn point. All these cloture requirements and filibuster threats are all just smoke and mirrors that distract from actual business getting done.

 

BOTH parties have been guilty of this now, and in the past. Simply denying that is happens demeans EVERYONE and prevents business of the country from getting done. Hell, Newt Gingrich happily supported this idea and PROMOTED it to prevent anything from the left from passing, simply to stall and wait for the next election cycle! It is on public freakin record!!!

 

If I had an employee that showed up to work, but then refused to actually do any work when they were there, I would fire their ass. yet we keep electing the same reps that continue to obstruct and refuse to particpate and DO THEIR JOBS. At this time, it i sthe right that have their heads stuck in the sand and is giving the US people the finger. In the past, I am sure there are examples of the Dems doing the same thing. The bottom line is when things are good, this stuff isnt that important to most Americans. But when the crap hits the fan, the American people expect elected officals to act in the best interests of ALL AMERICANS, not just their narrow base. NOW is when people are hurting, and NOW is when both parties need to put the petty squabbles aside, stop worring about theor congressional seat, and start doing some work on behalf of AMERICA.

 

IMO that is Obama's point. Work together and put your country ahead of yourself. I wonder how many congresspeople will heed that call . . . . but no matter what I am betting the under

[Ursa Majoris]

I am not sure but maybe some of those votes were warranted?

And maybe some of the ones in the previous session were too. Fact is, the record is about to be blown clean out of the water and it's your guys doing it. Very constructive.

[The Mucca]

Quick fact check for apologists for the Repblicans "slash and burn" obstructionism.

 

During the two year term of the 109th Congress, when the Dem's were still the minority party, there were 52 cloture votes. A Cloture vote is demanding a "super majority" to avoid a filibuster.

 

In ONE year of the Republicans being the minority in the Senate, ther have already been 60 cloture votes needed. Including on simple procedural motions, which only wastes time. The all-time cloture record is 61 over a TWO YEAR period. We already have 60 one year in!

 

In the face of those immutable FACTS, how can anyone say that the current minority is being anything BUT unnecessarily obstructionist, and preventing ANY business from getting done?

 

 

Maybe it's because they simply don't like his policies. The reason for a cloture vote is so the minority can debate, maybe if Obama

let the Repubs in the Oval Office to discuss some of these policies there wouldn't need to be a reason for a cloture vote.

[gbpfan1231]

Gbfan . . that is the whole damn point. All these cloture requirements and filibuster threats are all just smoke and mirrors that distract from actual business getting done.

 

BOTH parties have been guilty of this now, and in the past. Simply denying that is happens demeans EVERYONE and prevents business of the country from getting done. Hell, Newt Gingrich happily supported this idea and PROMOTED it to prevent anything from the left from passing, simply to stall and wait for the next election cycle! It is on public freakin record!!!

 

If I had an employee that showed up to work, but then refused to actually do any work when they were there, I would fire their ass. yet we keep electing the same reps that continue to obstruct and refuse to particpate and DO THEIR JOBS. At this time, it i sthe right that have their heads stuck in the sand and is giving the US people the finger. In the past, I am sure there are examples of the Dems doing the same thing. The bottom line is when things are good, this stuff isnt that important to most Americans. But when the crap hits the fan, the American people expect elected officals to act in the best interests of ALL AMERICANS, not just their narrow base. NOW is when people are hurting, and NOW is when both parties need to put the petty squabbles aside, stop worring about theor congressional seat, and start doing some work on behalf of AMERICA.

 

IMO that is Obama's point. Work together and put your country ahead of yourself. I wonder how many congresspeople will heed that call . . . . but no matter what I am betting the under

I guess my point is that you and some others blame everything on the righties. Are they just supposed to sit on the sidelines and say "Oh well the left has the power and want to slam this debacle called health care down our throats but we would all look better if we just go along and make it look like we are working together and pass this piece of crap.

 

Obama would not have done this meeting with the right if the left did not lose the 60th vote. They would have CONTINUED to work by themselves and push crap through. The libs were doing it on their own until they lost the absolute power they had so now it is all the rights fault.

[bpwallace49]

Maybe it's because they simply don't like his policies. The reason for a cloture vote is so the minority can debate, maybe if Obama

let the Repubs in the Oval Office to discuss some of these policies there wouldn't need to be a reason for a cloture vote.

 

It isnt to let the minority debate, it is meant to prevent an never ending filibuster. So if you threaten to filibuster every single effort in COngress, then you are forciong a cloture vote to set an end time for debate.

 

Dont like the policies? Then by all means dont try to work by consensus!! Just refure to work instead! The "I will take my ball and go home unless I get to set the rules" isnt working all too well .. is it? The left isnt helping by saying, "fine, we have our own damn ball to play with" either.

[bpwallace49]

I guess my point is that you and some others blame everything on the righties. Are they just supposed to sit on the sidelines and say "Oh well the left has the power and want to slam this debacle called health care down our throats but we would all look better if we just go along and make it look like we are working together and pass this piece of crap.

 

Obama would not have done this meeting with the right if the left did not lose the 60th vote. They would have CONTINUED to work by themselves and push crap through. The libs were doing it on their own until they lost the absolute power they had so now it is all the rights fault.

 

Cmon man! Seriously?!? Do you think the health care thing would be better if both parties worked togther for the good of the country? I sure do! The right has had two choices here.

 

1.) Work to get their ideas into the current bill, if by being open and at least TRYING to work with the left, they would have scorewd WAAAYYY more points, because that puts the onus back on the LEFT to compromise a little in order to get the greater goal of health care reform passed.

 

2.) Refuse to help, aid, or particpate in the legislative process and refuse to contribute anything but adoption of "their" plan.

 

Which do you think would have been better? Which do you think the US people would have wanted more?

 

health care NEVER would have been addressed by the right (cause they cant offend their wealthy donors), so by being the "persecuted" minority that strives to work together in SPITE of the left's majority, they would have gotten WAAAYY more mileage and more respect and support from independents, IMO. This is just obviously pandering to their base, which will blindly vote for them no matter what. the CENTRIST approach is the key to the next election cycle, and would have helped the position of the right. Oh well . . . .

[tosberg34]

Anytime . . . and tos is pretty set in his ways. I have him on ignore once he started getting personal . . . I hope he hasn't started to insult others that he doesnt agree with.

 

All I said was that you can't claim to be in the political middle because anyone reading any of your posts would CLEARLY see that you were a card-carrying liberal. So I called you out - big deal.

 

I don't come on these boards to cause trouble or insult people. I try to have a relevant discussion and put forth my point of view (and it CLEARLY doesn't jibe with yours). While sometimes it can get kind of rough here it's not something I set out to do but you're not the only one who has been insulted. You and your pals (you know who they are) go after conservatives pretty hard on these boards so this is more like the pot calling the kettle black than anything else. And I don't mean that you CAN'T go after someones view, after all these are political discussions, what I am saying is that you (and your pals) will minimize, ridicule and insult just as good as anyone else on these boards. So to insinuate that ALL I do is insult others I don't agree with is patently false. Now your just slandering my good name!

 

Can't we all just get along?

[dmarc117]

Quick fact check for apologists for the Repblicans "slash and burn" obstructionism.

 

During the two year term of the 109th Congress, when the Dem's were still the minority party, there were 52 cloture votes. A Cloture vote is demanding a "super majority" to avoid a filibuster.

 

In ONE year of the Republicans being the minority in the Senate, ther have already been 60 cloture votes needed. Including on simple procedural motions, which only wastes time. The all-time cloture record is 61 over a TWO YEAR period. We already have 60 one year in!

 

In the face of those immutable FACTS, how can anyone say that the current minority is being anything BUT unnecessarily obstructionist, and preventing ANY business from getting done?

 

 

an extreme administration needs extreme measures to be kept in check. come back to the middle and im sure you would see change! isnt that what you voted for anyways, change?

[Ursa Majoris]

an extreme administration needs extreme measures to be kept in check. come back to the middle and im sure you would see change! isnt that what you voted for anyways, change?

What amazes me is that having been soundly destroyed in 2008, the Republicans expect Obama to do what they want.

[bpwallace49]

an extreme administration needs extreme measures to be kept in check. come back to the middle and im sure you would see change! isnt that what you voted for anyways, change?

 

dmarc I agree that Congress in general needs to come back more toward the middle, and it naturally will in the next election cycle. Bush made the pendulum swing far left, even to the point of fellow republicans needs to play up the Reagan card to distance themselves for their own survival. The swing back towards the middle will correct the over-balance.

 

I sincerely hope that it will be more moderates than far right ideologues like some are hoping for . . . Obama seems to be pretty moderate on many items. However the very left Pelosi is in charge of implementing the plan . . which is a terrible idea. Hence the "why dont you guys get involved in the process speech" to the right . . .

[dmarc117]

What amazes me is that having been soundly destroyed in 2008, the Republicans expect Obama to do what they want.

 

 

not necessarily what they want, but they dont want obama to ruin(in their minds) the country either.

Edited January 31, 2010 by dmarc117

[gbpfan1231]

Cmon man! Seriously?!? Do you think the health care thing would be better if both parties worked togther for the good of the country? I sure do! The right has had two choices here.

 

1.) Work to get their ideas into the current bill, if by being open and at least TRYING to work with the left, they would have scorewd WAAAYYY more points, because that puts the onus back on the LEFT to compromise a little in order to get the greater goal of health care reform passed.

 

2.) Refuse to help, aid, or particpate in the legislative process and refuse to contribute anything but adoption of "their" plan.

 

Which do you think would have been better? Which do you think the US people would have wanted more?

 

health care NEVER would have been addressed by the right (cause they cant offend their wealthy donors), so by being the "persecuted" minority that strives to work together in SPITE of the left's majority, they would have gotten WAAAYY more mileage and more respect and support from independents, IMO. This is just obviously pandering to their base, which will blindly vote for them no matter what. the CENTRIST approach is the key to the next election cycle, and would have helped the position of the right. Oh well . . . .

Spring better come quick!!!

[bpwallace49]

Spring better come quick!!!

 

Do you have anything that can validate the current actions by the right?

[dmarc117]

Do you have anything that can validate the current actions by the right?

 

 

when the left promised open talks on health care and then did stuff behind closed doors. wouldnt let anyone read the 1000s of pages til it was too late. trying to force it down amerikas throat. paying off senators for votes.

Edited January 31, 2010 by dmarc117

[The Mucca]

when the left promised open talks on health care and then did stuff behind closed doors. wouldnt let anyone read the 1000s of pages til it was too late. trying to force it down amerikas throat. paying off senators for votes.

 

 

I think that would validate it.

[bpwallace49]

when the left promised open talks on health care and then did stuff behind closed doors. wouldnt let anyone read the 1000s of pages til it was too late. trying to force it down amerikas throat. paying off senators for votes.

 

Trying to remember how much the left shot down the promises of "no new taxes", "mission accomplished" and the rest of the crap pulled by the last admin.

 

The point is two wrongs dont make a right, and the Dems have never been as obstructionist as the right is being now.

 

But keep telling yourself it is OK . . . . I am suuuure that when the right picks up more seats that COngress will work very smoothly

[dmarc117]

Trying to remember how much the left shot down the promises of "no new taxes", "mission accomplished" and the rest of the crap pulled by the last admin.

 

The point is two wrongs dont make a right, and the Dems have never been as obstructionist as the right is being now.

 

But keep telling yourself it is OK . . . . I am suuuure that when the right picks up more seats that COngress will work very smoothly

 

 

it wont. we need more moderates elected.

[bpwallace49]

it wont. we need more moderates elected.

 

Agreed . . unfortunately that will only lead to who can buy off the moderates votes . . .

[The Mucca]

Trying to remember how much the left shot down the promises of "no new taxes", "mission accomplished" and the rest of the crap pulled by the last admin.

 

The point is two wrongs dont make a right, and the Dems have never been as obstructionist as the right is being now.

 

But keep telling yourself it is OK . . . . I am suuuure that when the right picks up more seats that COngress will work very smoothly

 

 

BP, would you buy a house without looking at the contract? Not knowing what it would cost, the interest, what kind of house. They just tell you

to sign here and it's yours.

 

Well that's what the Dems wanted us to do for health care, now they say they want to work together, well that was already promised by the

Dems. Let's hope Obama wasn't spewing more hot air.

[bpwallace49]

BP, would you buy a house without looking at the contract? Not knowing what it would cost, the interest, what kind of house. They just tell you

to sign here and it's yours.

 

Well that's what the Dems wanted us to do for health care, now they say they want to work together, well that was already promised by the

Dems. Let's hope Obama wasn't spewing more hot air.

 

Mucca . . if your wife said "lets buy a house", would you refuse to participate in the process because you didnt like the color, knowing that a house was going to be purchased regardless? or would you wait until it was bought, and then say "I told you so" after? Another circular argument . . . but puling and whining when the right chose to not participate doesnt solve the problem.

 

Mucca I do not endorse the current bill. But I am very glad that health care reform is even in discussion and pulled into the light after being kept in the shadows by the right forever . .