golferdoc Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 This last weekend I picked up Goodsen after McFadden got hurt. Before the game was over I dropped him because Goodsen got hurt and never returned...Goodsen went directly back to FA. THe new rule prevents me from picking up anyone like Goodsen during a game because they are all on waivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKIDKOKID Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Agree that this rule change should have been voted on...don't agree with the ability to pick up a player while his game is being played. Could you have started that player after picking him up? Players should be locked when their games start at worst. KO'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 This last weekend I picked up Goodsen after McFadden got hurt. Before the game was over I dropped him because Goodsen got hurt and never returned...Goodsen went directly back to FA. THe new rule prevents me from picking up anyone like Goodsen during a game because they are all on waivers. As many here have mentioned, that is really the best way to handle things. Allowing people to pick up players during a game when they see another player is hurt just rewards people for sitting and watching the games. Waivers will give everybody an equal chance at these players, governed by a waiver order. How that waiver order is set is another whole set of issues and fairness. But even a waiver order that resets each week to reward the worst team with first choice, is more fair than what you had, referred to as FCFS (first come first served). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golferdoc Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 I picked up Goodsen Sunday after McFadden got hurt. Dropped Goodsen an hour later...as he got hurt. Goodsen went back to FA...not Waivers. Will not be able to make those quick pickups with the new waiver system rules.Every player on waivers from game time to Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golferdoc Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 I agree the waiver rule is fair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golferdoc Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 Not as certain about the move cap though. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Not as certain about the move cap though. lol A cap on the number of moves does complicate things, but 5 per week or something like 60-70 for the fantasy season isn't that low. Years ago I knew of leagues that were limited to 10-15 moves in a year. We have no limit, but charge $2 (for any player added to your roster including trades). That money goes into a separate pool split by the top 3 in total points. Usually about $200 total, and there's been a few times where one of those winning money was not a playoff team. You might try suggesting that for next year, but not sure how it goes over based on what you've told us about the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golferdoc Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 Was there really any need for him to change the rules half way through this season? There were three of us with high numbers of moves...45, 72 (me), and 130. The guy with 45 is leading the league at 7-2 but myself and the other guy with 130 moves are tied for 7th at 4-5. No one but the commish ever complained about the large number of moves some of us made. Is making a lot of moves really that big of a deal ...especially since he had tolerated it for 2.5 years. Not that is necessarily had anything to do with it, but I did win the league last year and the guy with over 120 moves already this year had almost as many last year when he finished in the final four. The commish has been playing FFB for ten years and said he has never seen anyone make so many moves as some of us managers in this league. Is there usually a cap on the number of moves per season? THis is one of those leagues where the veterans believe in "playing your studs every game" whereas I have found that sometimes a bad matchup requires looking for an alternative...thus all the moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golferdoc Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 I like the $ per move idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 the whole purpose of a draft is to draft the best players!... but people get hurt or wind up sucking or a unkown player is the flavor of the wk and u got someone on a bye,....what ever the case,rules should not be changed with out some type of vote...period..!! there should be a waiver order and at least a $2.00 transaction fee , take the transaction $$ and award it to the player with the highest pts for the regular season............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Calculated risk of early waiver moves. Seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water. For starters, the player could actually get hurt during the week, so ending up with an injured player may not be the result of not doing your homework. Like the OP mentioned, some websites have a built in tool that helps avoid this. For others, I would think cooler heads could just prevail and roster turning could just be against the rules. I mean, it's not hard to notice when a guy adds, then drops several players at one position in quick succession. Just penalize that behavior. Seems better than sticking someone with an injured starter or being forced to put a good player on a bye into the waiver pool because a guy he picked up got hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MothAudio Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 As a commish I would never make a rules change after the draft without notifying and putting itto a league vote. If anyone was against it I would honor that. That happned this year where I was running two leagues, very similar rules in each, and noticed after the draft that there was no PPR. That was not what I intended and emailed all the other managers asking their input on correcting that error. I agree with big country, that picking up and immediately dropping players just to make them unavailable to the rest of the league is bush league. Picking up a player to keep them from someone else for the weekend is fine, as you have to potenetially drop someone you would have liked to keep, risking the chance someone else might snag them before you do. So that's a gamble you take. While I don't agee with how the change was made, 40 moves for the remainder of the season seems reasonable to me. I make more moves than most owners; 37 moves in one league. 40 would easily cover the remainder of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golferdoc Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Thanks for the input MothAudio! I spent 20 years in Columbus, Ohio & football is the main topic there...most of the time. The cap on moves doesn't really bother me as much as some in the league. The bigger elephant in the room is the fact the commish made rule changes mid season...in a league that has had the same rules for 2.5 seasons. Now next season...a low cap on moves of say 50 would probably bother me a lot. Also, I think we should have a rule in place to prevent roster shuffling...perhaps $3-5 for any player you pick up and drop the same week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboCowboy Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 A cap on the number of moves does complicate things, but 5 per week or something like 60-70 for the fantasy season isn't that low. Years ago I knew of leagues that were limited to 10-15 moves in a year. We have no limit, but charge $2 (for any player added to your roster including trades). That money goes into a separate pool split by the top 3 in total points. Usually about $200 total, and there's been a few times where one of those winning money was not a playoff team. You might try suggesting that for next year, but not sure how it goes over based on what you've told us about the league. Great system and very similar to ours. We give each team 6 free adds and every add thereafter costs $10. That add pool money is then divided between the top two highest single game scores for the season and it's a nice number. We thought this could motivate people who are out of the playoffs to at least compete weekly. And, golferdoc, your commish made a mistake to unilaterally make a rules change mid season. That's something he won't do again if he remains commissioner and you and others make him aware of his mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delusions of grandeur Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Thanks for the input MothAudio! I spent 20 years in Columbus, Ohio & football is the main topic there...most of the time. The cap on moves doesn't really bother me as much as some in the league. The bigger elephant in the room is the fact the commish made rule changes mid season...in a league that has had the same rules for 2.5 seasons. Now next season...a low cap on moves of say 50 would probably bother me a lot. Also, I think we should have a rule in place to prevent roster shuffling...perhaps $3-5 for any player you pick up and drop the same week. Or how about that if you pick up a player, you cannot drop him until the next week. That is far more fair than me paying $3-5 so I can block you from picking up a player I don't intend to hold onto for the week. All that's doing is legitimatizing roster churning by charging for it. I mean, what's 3-5 dollars if it can help me swindle you out of a much larger pot by picking up and dropping players you need. You might not like my solution because it may prevent you from picking a gazillion players a week, but seriously, no one should be picking up players if your just going to drop them before the next week's game are played. It's really not too much to ask that if you pick up a player, you own them for that week. This can also only help the quality of the waiver-wire for everyone to enjoy. Methinks you need to look more at what's fair, and remove your concern for your strategy that IMO is excessive for the league to accomodate for. If you think you may drop the player in the next day or two for another one, then you shouldn't be picking them up in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Or how about that if you pick up a player, you cannot drop him until the next week. That is far more fair than me paying $3-5 so I can block you from picking up a player I don't intend to hold onto for the week. All that's doing is legitimatizing roster churning by charging for it. I mean, what's 3-5 dollars if it can help me swindle you out of a much larger pot by picking up and dropping players you need. You might not like my solution because it may prevent you from picking a gazillion players a week, but seriously, no one should be picking up players if your just going to drop them before the next week's game are played. It's really not too much to ask that if you pick up a player, you own them for that week. This can also only help the quality of the waiver-wire for everyone to enjoy. Methinks you need to look more at what's fair, and remove your concern for your strategy that IMO is excessive for the league to accomodate for. If you think you may drop the player in the next day or two for another one, then you shouldn't be picking them up in the first place. The question I would pose is does their league management site/tool take care of that. Otherwise you're putting more work on the commissioner to monitor roster moves, and somehow undo things if somebody adds and then cuts somebody in the same week. Besides that there is the issue already mentioned about what if the player added is injured. I add a new kicker for my bye and then the guy I add gets hurt before the game. So I cannot dopr him to add somebody else. I must drop another one of my players, or take a zero on my K? Or you need more rules to address that (exceptions if the player added is injured etc.). I don't see roster churning in my league with $2 fee, but I do see people add a player, then cut them the same week because there is somebody better (maybe they got a backup off waivers, and another team dropped a better player. It all just sounds like more rules and complexities to deal with a real non issue. The primary problem in the OPs league was not having waivers, and using FCFS to add players. Combined with players not even being locked during their games. I doubt many leagues with any sort of waivers have these roster churning issues, even without rules forcing you to keep the player for some minimum time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Or how about that if you pick up a player, you cannot drop him until the next week. That is far more fair than me paying $3-5 so I can block you from picking up a player I don't intend to hold onto for the week. All that's doing is legitimatizing roster churning by charging for it. I mean, what's 3-5 dollars if it can help me swindle you out of a much larger pot by picking up and dropping players you need. You might not like my solution because it may prevent you from picking a gazillion players a week, but seriously, no one should be picking up players if your just going to drop them before the next week's game are played. It's really not too much to ask that if you pick up a player, you own them for that week. This can also only help the quality of the waiver-wire for everyone to enjoy. Methinks you need to look more at what's fair, and remove your concern for your strategy that IMO is excessive for the league to accomodate for. If you think you may drop the player in the next day or two for another one, then you shouldn't be picking them up in the first place. Like I mentioned to BC, the rule about not being able to drop someone for a week could really cost a team unfairly. I know, on at least one of my teams, I had bye weeks where several key players where out at once, which was really hard to avoid given how large our starting rosters were. So, in those weeks, I may have had very little wiggle room with who I could drop if I also had an injury to a player too good to waive happen as well (which it did). As it was, I had to drop a player I would have preferred not to, but obviously did. Had the guy I picked up gotten hurt mid-week (which happens), I would have been forced to drop yet another player that I really didn't want to or forfeit the points. Seems like a rather harsh way of dealing with the situations. Again, for all the crap Yahoo takes, they actually have a great way of dealing with this. Any player that you pick up and drop the same week is immediately put back into the open FA pool. Therefor, roster churning is impossible. I could add/drop every decent FA RB trying to screw my opponent and they could just come right behind me and pick up any of them the second they're dropped by me. Short of that, there's always the "don't be a dick" rule that I like to invoke at the beginning of each season. Reminding everyone that this is all supposed to be fun and, rather than have a 10-page list of by-laws that protect each of us from each other, but possibly at the risk of unintended consequences like what I just illustrated, that we just remember that it's not about finding the angle, it's about having fun. That things like waivers are there to allow those who are not prepared to live in front of their computers the chance at the latest hotness, not to be used as some tool to get over on someone. Things like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golferdoc Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 I totally agree that the ultimate goal is to have fun in FFB. The "don't be a dick rule" seemed to be violated by my commissioner even though his waiver rule will improve our league significantly. A team vote would have approved this rule and prevented many problems but the rule could have been changed for the next season rather than the middle of this one. The same thing goes for the cap rule. I am in four leagues this year and I plan on giving your input to the commissioners of several of them. One of these leagues charges for all moves and the other three have no cap or waiver rule...so it is first come first serve with FA you see doing well on game day. Unless Yahoo has a specific option I don't know about, Huddler all pro, when yo pick up a FA on Yahoo the player goes back to FA if you drop him within 24 hours & the player goes to waivers if you drop him anytime after 24 hours. IF it they did go back to FA when you dropped them in less than a week...that would be better and would solve the roster churning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I totally agree that the ultimate goal is to have fun in FFB. The "don't be a dick rule" seemed to be violated by my commissioner even though his waiver rule will improve our league significantly. A team vote would have approved this rule and prevented many problems but the rule could have been changed for the next season rather than the middle of this one. The same thing goes for the cap rule. I am in four leagues this year and I plan on giving your input to the commissioners of several of them. One of these leagues charges for all moves and the other three have no cap or waiver rule...so it is first come first serve with FA you see doing well on game day. Unless Yahoo has a specific option I don't know about, Huddler all pro, when yo pick up a FA on Yahoo the player goes back to FA if you drop him within 24 hours & the player goes to waivers if you drop him anytime after 24 hours. IF it they did go back to FA when you dropped them in less than a week...that would be better and would solve the roster churning. To be fair, your commissioner and othres in your league probably feel you violated the "don't be a dick rule" by making so many roster moves. But no doubt, a rule change mid season without a vote is wrong. If you feel like an outsider in this league and are concerned the commish will do something like this again (because you are playing a way that the other long time owners don't accept), its probably best for you to leave the league. Otherwise you'll be doing a lot of in the future, and generally not having fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golferdoc Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Ironically, I wasn't the big move maker with my 70 + moves in 9 games. Another guy in our league already has over 120 moves & he had done the same thing last year as well. I don't feel like an outsider in this league. The problem seems to be that everyone thinks the commissioner should be given 100% power in the league because he was the one that started it up 2.5 years ago & they feel he has the most experience with how to run a FFB league. Ironically, he is the first guy to admit he has been accused of being called names such as "Bud the Nazi commissioner Selig" in the past! I am guessing this isn't the first time he has "fixed" a problem midseason with a mid season rule change that never came to a vote. I honestly think his intentions have always been good and he just doesn't understand appropriate commissioner etiquette. I know he isn't going to listen to my suggestions & the other managers just assume he knows what he is doing. Therefore, I am hoping that the responses you guys have offered will carry more weight than what I say to him as well as to the others in my league. Our league is called the "no pride" league and the guy that makes the most moves every year has changed his team name to "nofunnow" after the cap rule was started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Ironically, I wasn't the big move maker with my 70 + moves in 9 games. Another guy in our league already has over 120 moves & he had done the same thing last year as well. I don't feel like an outsider in this league. The problem seems to be that everyone thinks the commissioner should be given 100% power in the league because he was the one that started it up 2.5 years ago & they feel he has the most experience with how to run a FFB league. Ironically, he is the first guy to admit he has been accused of being called names such as "Bud the Nazi commissioner Selig" in the past! I am guessing this isn't the first time he has "fixed" a problem midseason with a mid season rule change that never came to a vote. I honestly think his intentions have always been good and he just doesn't understand appropriate commissioner etiquette. I know he isn't going to listen to my suggestions & the other managers just assume he knows what he is doing. Therefore, I am hoping that the responses you guys have offered will carry more weight than what I say to him as well as to the others in my league. Our league is called the "no pride" league and the guy that makes the most moves every year has changed his team name to "nofunnow" after the cap rule was started. Well that is crazy, and further indication that this league could be full of headaches in the future. Sounds like any change you might want to make is going to be at the sole descretion of the commish, so good luck with that. The owners will back whatever he does, and if that is a majority he may not even bother listening to you. Some commissioner's like to run leagues like a dictator, and don't take kindly to being questioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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