emandg Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 The guy giving up Fitz and S. Alexander is straight out getting run - it may not be collusion, it could just be a very confused owner - regardless, thats why there is a commissioner - If someone is getting run lilke that than the trade should be obviously overturned - there is no upside in the trade for the guy giving up Fitz and Alexander. You could try and argue for Delhomme but it wouldn't really fly. Glenn and Anderson are just slightly above the waiver wire line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiginthecapital Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 I really like that last line there, can I steal it? 1123034[/snapback] Let's just say you can borrow it. Credit is always apprecaited, but rarely enforceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiginthecapital Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 (edited) The guy giving up Fitz and S. Alexander is straight out getting run - it may not be collusion, it could just be a very confused owner - regardless, thats why there is a commissioner - If someone is getting run lilke that than the trade should be obviously overturned - there is no upside in the trade for the guy giving up Fitz and Alexander. You could try and argue for Delhomme but it wouldn't really fly. Glenn and Anderson are just slightly above the waiver wire line. 1123035[/snapback] Glenn is 6th in WR points in our league, Fitz is 7th Anderson is 13th among RBs, ahead of Parker, Portis, Dillion, S. Davis and others deemed supposedly higher, Alexander is 2nd Delhomme is 8th, Vick is 24th among QB I don't have to convince you of the value of the trade; that's for the other owner to decide on his own, but you make it sound like just becase a name is involved, there's no way it can be legit. And your comment of being "just above the waiver wire" is BS. Anderson is putting up monster games and doing better than a number of RBs who aren't RBBC members. This is the same thing we're talking about though. It's not about what YOU would do. This isn't YOUR trade. Stopping it because you don't like it is BS. Edited November 4, 2005 by craiginthecapital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker22 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 (edited) My friend, I dare say you've been playing in "Big Brother" leagues too long if this is the clearest example of collusion you've seen. 1122823[/snapback] Craig...I am not arguing that I would accept it if it were offered or offer it myself...It just simply is insulting to someone who knows the game....and worse you should not have someone in your league that stupid to accept that offer if it is a competitive league regardless and especially if it is a keeper league. Geez....My point about collusion is that it truly to me looks like that on the surface....In my league those players scoring averages are as follows Glenn=10 Delhomme=15 Anderson=12 (I have on my team) Total = 38 Fitz=12 Vick=13 SA=23 Total=49 Now that does not improve someones team in my mind...that is why I view it the way I do. Sorry if I see that as collussion. Edited November 4, 2005 by Kicker22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker22 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Glenn is 6th in WR points in our league, Fitz is 7thAnderson is 13th among RBs, ahead of Parker, Portis, Dillion, S. Davis and others deemed supposedly higher, Alexander is 2nd Delhomme is 8th, Vick is 24th among QB I don't have to convince you of the value of the trade; that's for the other owner to decide on his own, but you make it sound like just becase a name is involved, there's no way it can be legit. And your comment of being "just above the waiver wire" is BS. Anderson is putting up monster games and doing better than a number of RBs who aren't RBBC members. This is the same thing we're talking about though. It's not about what YOU would do. This isn't YOUR trade. Stopping it because you don't like it is BS. 1123065[/snapback] I have Anderson on my team and know he has been productive, I never made the comment about just above the waiver wire Craig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiginthecapital Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 Craig...I am not arguing that I would accept it if it were offered or offer it myself...It just simply is insulting to someone who knows the game....and worse you should not have someone in your league that stupid to accept that offer if it is a competitive league regardless and especially if it is a keeper league. Geez....My point about collusion is that it truly to me looks like that on the surface....In my league those players scoring averages are as follows Glenn=10 Delhomme=15 Anderson=12 (I have on my team) Total = 38 Fitz=12 Vick=13 SA=23 Total=49 Now that does not improve someones team in my mind...that is why I view it the way I do. Sorry if I see that as collussion. 1123071[/snapback] You can see above for these player' ranks in my league, but based on the first 8 weeks, the average in my league are: Delhomme - 18 Glenn - 14 Anderson - 14 Total = 46 Alexander - 22 Fitz - 14 Vick - 11 Total = 47 I stand by Glenn being a better long-term option than Fitz, and Delhome will undoubtedly be that over Vick. I'd put money that after 17 weeks, the top three average will be higher than the bottom three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiginthecapital Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 I have Anderson on my team and know he has been productive, I never made the comment about just above the waiver wire Craig! 1123091[/snapback] Check my post...I included someone else's reply -- that wasn't your comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emandg Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Glenn is 6th in WR points in our league, Fitz is 7thAnderson is 13th among RBs, ahead of Parker, Portis, Dillion, S. Davis and others deemed supposedly higher, Alexander is 2nd Delhomme is 8th, Vick is 24th among QB I don't have to convince you of the value of the trade; that's for the other owner to decide on his own, but you make it sound like just becase a name is involved, there's no way it can be legit. And your comment of being "just above the waiver wire" is BS. Anderson is putting up monster games and doing better than a number of RBs who aren't RBBC members. This is the same thing we're talking about though. It's not about what YOU would do. This isn't YOUR trade. Stopping it because you don't like it is BS. 1123065[/snapback] There are a few guys ear marked for trades that should be specifically legit - if your trading Alexander or LT it better be for some serious thugs. If you think what he is getting are thugs than your sadly mistaken. Trades like that shouldn't go through and can destroy league balance IMO. If people are fired up in your league, especially if its a money league, than its for good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiginthecapital Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 (edited) There are a few guys ear marked for trades that should be specifically legit - if your trading Alexander or LT it better be for some serious thugs. If you think what he is getting are thugs than your sadly mistaken. Trades like that shouldn't go through and can destroy league balance IMO. If people are fired up in your league, especially if its a money league, than its for good reason. 1123103[/snapback] That's your standard. And who's to say where the line of "earmaked guys" begins and ends? Sometimes, you need players in certain positions. This guys needs a QB in a bad way, so maybe he's willing to sacrafice to get it. Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to. Your standard is too subjective to be either fair or enforceable in any meaningful way. Edited November 4, 2005 by craiginthecapital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker22 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 You can see above for these player' ranks in my league, but based on the first 8 weeks, the average in my league are: Delhomme - 18 Glenn - 14 Anderson - 14 Total = 46 Alexander - 22 Fitz - 14 Vick - 11 Total = 47 I stand by Glenn being a better long-term option than Fitz, and Delhome will undoubtedly be that over Vick. I'd put money that after 17 weeks, the top three average will be higher than the bottom three. 1123094[/snapback] Seeing this it does look more equitable, but the fact remains I would prefer to keep the SA side and there exists no Studs! on the other side. I could see if the deal was Delhomme, Glenn, and MA for SA for someone adding depth, but not adding in the others...That helps a team and they can dump their junk...Fitz is definately not junk!...Vick however is!LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emandg Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 The fabric in you has been torn and your obsessing over the issue - if a trade in your league can go through like that than it will - if money is involved other teams will get run by the guy who gets SA and Fitz and the guy who gave them up will let teams who normally wouldn't have lost win - oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatTom Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Craig...I am not arguing that I would accept it if it were offered or offer it myself...It just simply is insulting to someone who knows the game....and worse you should not have someone in your league that stupid to accept that offer if it is a competitive league regardless and especially if it is a keeper league. Geez....My point about collusion is that it truly to me looks like that on the surface....In my league those players scoring averages are as follows Glenn=10 Delhomme=15 Anderson=12 (I have on my team) Total = 38 Fitz=12 Vick=13 SA=23 Total=49 Now that does not improve someones team in my mind...that is why I view it the way I do. Sorry if I see that as collussion. 1123071[/snapback] Your example is the perfect example of how not to look at a trade for several reasons. 1 - You must consider the entire roster when considering a trade. While the immediate players involved may look onesided, it is the overall lineup that you must evaluate. If the overall team is better, that is how to consider a trade. The idea behind trades is that you give up something to get something. 2 - You can not use YTD performance as your sole measurement. This is where the art comes into the deal. You must use your own judgement when assessing whether or not a player will perform better over the remaining games. That is where individual assessment comes in. If the SA owner wants to take this, maybe he feels that Vick will get hurt and he'd have nobody at QB and/or that Fitz's QB and Boldin situation renders him useless and therefore wants to "trade up" to other players. Maybe they feel Dallas will throw more in the second half of the year and thinks Glenn is more valuable. 3 - I'm assuming that you can read, and as such, read the Webster's definition I posted on collusion. There must be intent to deliberatly cheat the league. Just becuase an owner is doing something that seems stupid to everyone else, as long as they are not trying to cheat, let it go through. Your evaluation of the trade does not matter from a veto stand point. Thanks for your post. It is exactly what I'm talking about with all the whinning and crying I've seen this year. You need to separate the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiginthecapital Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 (edited) The fabric in you has been torn and your obsessing over the issue - if a trade in your league can go through like that than it will - if money is involved other teams will get run by the guy who gets SA and Fitz and the guy who gave them up will let teams who normally wouldn't have lost win - oh well. 1123146[/snapback] Well, we've gotten to apples and oranges. In any season, the team that does better in the draft, makes better trades, and work the waiver wire better will ultimately take wins from those that don't. We have no problems letting people draft whomever they want, why not trade the same way? I mean, would you stop your draft and refuse to let someone draft the player of their choosing if you think they went too high or should not have gone at all? What's different in a trade? Their "mistake" helps others in the league. Couple of us had a laugh when the Colts D went among the Top 5 Ds in our draft...wish that had been my D pick. Edited November 4, 2005 by craiginthecapital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiginthecapital Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 Thanks again, Tom. Like your viewpoint and the expression thereof is much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker22 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Well, we've gotten to apples and oranges. In any season, the team that does better in the draft, makes better trades, and work the waiver wire better will ultimately take wins from those that don't. We have no problems letting people draft whomever they want, why not trade the same way? I mean, would you stop your draft and refuse to let someone draft the player of their choosing if you think they went too high or should not have gone at all? What's different in a trade? Their "mistake" helps others in the league. Couple of us had a laugh when the Colts D went among the Top 5 Ds in our draft...wish that had been my D pick. 1123178[/snapback] I agree craig but just cannot see that being fair, but your point about the draft is a legit point and has been taken to heart...no ill feelings on my side I just hate to see people taken like that as it happened to me when I was a noob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiginthecapital Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 I agree craig but just cannot see that being fair, but your point about the draft is a legit point and has been taken to heart...no ill feelings on my side I just hate to see people taken like that as it happened to me when I was a noob. 1123209[/snapback] No worries man. Thanks for the input and no annimosity left on the table. I can see your point, but I think a lot of times we get so sucked into what we know and expect (don't trade X, trade Y because he's not as good despite the #s) and we overlook that sometimes these things really are about personal preferences not absolutes. Take it easy man, and best of luck in your league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker22 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 No worries man. Thanks for the input and no annimosity left on the table. I can see your point, but I think a lot of times we get so sucked into what we know and expect (don't trade X, trade Y because he's not as good despite the #s) and we overlook that sometimes these things really are about personal preferences not absolutes. Take it easy man, and best of luck in your league. 1123235[/snapback] NP you do the same and keep the lines open and tell us what happens with that offer...if it gets accepted you are god! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craiginthecapital Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 NP you do the same and keep the lines open and tell us what happens with that offer...if it gets accepted you are god! 1123254[/snapback] Will do, but as I said, I'll be as he!l if it's accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kicker22 Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 (edited) Will do, but as I said, I'll be as he!l if it's accepted. 1123265[/snapback] And I will at the stupidity of the other owner in my mind and for you having the balls to make such an offer. Edited November 4, 2005 by Kicker22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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