Egret Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 Bringing in high-priced free agents, and making trades does not make for a great team. The Rangers, Flyers, and Blues' salaries are very similar to the Redwings and Avalanche. Two of those teams are already out. The Blues have one foot out the door. Detroit has made solid trades to get the players they have. Hull wasn't resigned by the Stars... their loss. Everybody has said the Wings players are too old to win, now that they are winning people say they bought the team. If you don't like what the Wings are doing, score more goals. http://www.faceoff.com/nhl/salaries/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azazello13 Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 redwings.cup:That's not what the Vezina is about. It's about the top goalie and Hasek, during the regular season, was better than Burke. He is better period from any which way you want to look. It's clear that several of the Wings, including Bowman, get short changed during awards time. oh puh-lease. everybody overlooks the wings, huh? that's why you've got a 40 year-old who probably isn't even among the best 10 defensemen in the league, let alone the top 3, as a finalist for the norris. and how do you figure hasek has had a better year than burke "any way you look at it"? burke had a better save %, for one thing, and that's the one stat that you can accurately compare across teams. yeah, hasek had more wins (duh) and a slightly better GAA, but look at the respective teams they have in front of them: phoenix has one of the lowest payrolls in the league, and the wings have one of the highest, with two norris trophy finalists. burke pretty much single-handedly carried the dogs into a hard-earned western conference playoff spot. he DEFINITELY deserves to be a finalist this year, and hasek really doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 redwings.cup: Thank god our Dominator didn't end up with a Blue's note on his jersey. You got that straight, because Hasek is the only reason that Detroit is up 2-0 in this series. The Blues have outhit, outshot and outplayed Detroit, but they have been unable to penetrate Hasek, who is on his game again. This is just like last year's conference finals, where the Blues played the Avs pretty even, but Roy totally outplayed that stooge Turek. Brent Johnson has played well these first 2 games, but if the Blues go down in 4 or 5 games, no one will care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 redwings.cup:It's clear that several of the Wings, including Bowman, get short changed during awards time. What a bunch of b.s. that is. Uh, I believe that 2 of the 3 Norris Trophy finalists are from your beloved Red Wings. As for Bowman, remember that the top canidates for coach of the year in any sport are usually from teams who exceed expectations. Teams like the Red Wings and Avalanche are expected to be as good as they always are. I am not saying that is fair, but that is the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 redwings.cup: Hull fell in the Wings lap. That is where the Blues messed up. They could have gotten Hull back, but Coach Q didn't want him back, so that was that. I am still sore about Hull leaving St. Louis and seeing him in a Red Wing jersey still makes me wince. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foosball God Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 Lerxst:You got that straight, because Hasek is the only reason that Detroit is up 2-0 in this series. The Blues have outhit, outshot and outplayed Detroit, but they have been unable to penetrate Hasek, who is on his game again. This is just like last year's conference finals, where the Blues played the Avs pretty even, but Roy totally outplayed that stooge Turek. Brent Johnson has played well these first 2 games, but if the Blues go down in 4 or 5 games, no one will care. That is rediculous. The Blues have not outplayed Detroit. In the first game the Blues were tentative and flat. They had a few good scoring chances but did not outplay the Wings by any stretch of the imagination. In game two you'd have more of an argument, but while the Blues definetly played with more fire in the third they didn't really do that much to distinguish themselves in the first two periods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azazello13 Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 yeah, i have to agree that the blues haven't really "outplayed" the red wings in the series thus far. maybe they've shown that they CAN outplay them, but they sure haven't done it yet. you can point to shots and scoring chances in the blues' favor, but when one team has had the lead and the other has been playing from behind the whole series it's going to skew those numbers. the blues have got to show that they can finish off their scoring chances, period. they've put too many wide, or fanned on them, or put them right into hasek's gut. they seem to be showing yet again that they lack the nerve and the killer instinct of a championship club. as much as i love joel quenville, i wonder if he'll be gone next year if the blues lose this series in 4 or 5. but of course, if the blues can win game 3 convincingly (or even NOT convincingly) they still have time to put it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwings.cup Posted May 6, 2002 Author Share Posted May 6, 2002 the blues have not outplayed detroit. they're down 2-0, but since that isn't enough for you, let's just say the blues are worthy pretenders to the Wings eventual position as conference finalists. Not a bad team... they're tough and have some talent. They don't have cup level goal tending nor D-man depth. you're just bitter because our main man Hull is smoking blue's notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 Maybe saying the Blues having outplayed Detroit is a bit of stretch on my part, but I would not say that Detroit has outplayed them. Hasek has been the difference. Some may say that the Blues need to finish scoring chances, but when a goalie is playing like that, it is hard to do sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwings.cup Posted May 6, 2002 Author Share Posted May 6, 2002 your crappy goalie, (oops, i shouldn't say that as he is the grandson of all time great wing, Sid Able) got your team off to a bad start by drifting away from the goal and letting THE CAPTAIN score an EZ one. it's only downhill from there. The blues haven't been able to beat the wings in years and they won't this year, either. When have the Blues won anything? The Wings are not being outplayed. they're up 2-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azazello13 Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 redwings.cup: When have the Blues won anything? last year they got two rounds deeper than your mighty wings did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 redwings.cup:They don't have cup level goal tending nor D-man depth. OK, no question, Hasek is the better goalie, nothing I can do about it, but his numbers aren't THAT much better: Hasek: 41-15-8 2.17GAA .915 Save% 5SO $8Million Johnson: 34-20-4 2.18GAA .902 Save% 5SO $550,000 Figured I'd throw the salary in there to give you a little perspective. D-Man depth: This is a tough one to weigh, as it can be looked at many different ways. BTW, I'm just trying to point out that your comments of Wing superiority are more in your head than on paper. The Blues have the 9th, 10th and 65th leading scoring defensemen. The Wings have the 1st, 18th and 76th. The plus/minus numbers are pretty close as well, with Cherios at an impressive +40, but Pronger's 8th with +23, the only other top 30 is Fischer from Detroit. Agreed, Detroit is deeper at defense, but with Pronger, MacInnis, Khavanov, Salvadore etc, they are pretty solid as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst Posted May 6, 2002 Share Posted May 6, 2002 redwings.cup:your crappy goalie, (oops, i shouldn't say that as he is the grandson of all time great wing, Sid Able) got your team off to a bad start by drifting away from the goal and letting THE CAPTAIN score an EZ one. it's only downhill from there. The blues haven't been able to beat the wings in years and they won't this year, either. When have the Blues won anything? The Wings are not being outplayed. they're up 2-0 Crappy goalie? Let's examine the postseason stats up until now, shall we? Goals against average: Johnson 1.45 Hasek 2.08 Edge: Johnson Save percentage: Johnson .942 Hasek .917 Edge: Johnson W/L record: Johnson 4-3 Hasek 6-2 Edge: Hasek. However, here is an interesting note. In Johnson's 3 losses, the Blues have scored a total of 3 goals. In Hasek's 2 losses, Detroit scored 5 goals. Looks like the Blues "crappy" goalie has outplayed the "dominator" so far in the playoffs. Unlike Hasek, Johnson does not have a great offense to bail him out night after night. In 8 playoff games, Detroit has scored 27 goals(an average of almost 3 1/2 per game). In 7 playoff games, the Blues have scored a mere 15 goals, barely over 2 goals a game. Hasek has played great the last couple of games, but Detroit has already proven before that they can win it all with merely above average goalies like Osgood and Vernon, so let's not act like Hasek is all-world now or something. Hasek may win a cup this year, but he will never be in Patrick Roy's league and that is obvious to any NHL observer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwings.cup Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 sounds like our boy lerxst would rather have Johnson than Hasek. Trust me when I tell you the spurned blues management wouldn't! by the way, there is one other goalie in Roy's class come playoff time. his name is Terry Sawchuk and "the Uke" was a Wing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwings.cup Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 of course i agree with Policy in tone and spirit.. but in the interest of accuracy and full disclosure, I believe Maltby was acquired off the junk heap from Edmonton where he was an under-achieving 4th round pick. The Wings gave up a guy named Dan (Dave?) McGillis. Larionov was a Canuck and Shark before the Wings stole him from the then-mismanaged San Jose team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Azazello13 Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 policyvote:The Colorado Avalanche is a big-money, big-market team, and it's only a coincedence that they didn't acquire anyone new and huge THIS offseason. ok, since you seem to know so much about them, why don't you tell me what "new and huge" acquisitions they made LAST offseason. or the offseason before that. or ANY offseason. you'll be scratching your head for a while, because the avs have NEVER signed a big-ticket free agent from another team. sure, they've added some great players via trades, but look at some of the players they've lost:via free agency: john klemm, valeri kamensky, mike keane, sly lefebvre, uwe krupp, claude lemiuex, theo fleury, dave andreychuk (kamensky, krupp, lefebvre, etc. were all considered big-ticket free agents then they left, and were paid accordingly). via trade: owen nolan, mats sundin, adam deadmarsh, aaron miller, mike ricci, wendell clark, sandis ozolinsh, robin regher, jocelyn thibault, brian rolston, ville neimenen, shjon podein, etc. they're a "big money" team not because they're in a big market (since when is denver a big market??), but because they go deep into the playoffs every year and that makes big bucks. they can make all the trades because they draft better than anyone, because they have solid rookies stepping in for free agent losses each and every year, and because they rarely make trades that hurt them. they really are the epitome of a well-run sports organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Unfortunately, the Blues cannot boast of having a high level general manager. Larry Pleau has made some good moves, but also some that have backfired big time. Letting Turgeon go and signing Weight has turned out bad for the team. Turgeon and Scott Young had great chemistry, but Pleau ignored that and signed Weight and let Turg go. And what happened? Weight and Young have yet to click and the Blues have only 1 line that is scoring these days and that is not enough in the playoffs. As long as Pleau keeps messing things up, the Blues will continue to be a step behind Detroit and Colorado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwings.cup Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 Lerxst:Unfortunately, the Blues cannot boast of having a high level general manager. Larry Pleau has made some good moves, but also some that have backfired big time. Letting Turgeon go and signing Weight has turned out bad for the team. Turgeon and Scott Young had great chemistry, but Pleau ignored that and signed Weight and let Turg go. And what happened? Weight and Young have yet to click and the Blues have only 1 line that is scoring these days and that is not enough in the playoffs. As long as Pleau keeps messing things up, the Blues will continue to be a step behind Detroit and Colorado. Yes, especially behind the Wings. St. Louis has been our beech waterboy since we took Jacques Demers off your hands, and he went on to win 2 straight Adams Awards as the " NHL coach contributing to the teams success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwings.cup Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 default to previous post loco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Dude, do you need some help? Keep hitting quote over and over. Eventually it will work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwings.cup Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 too many beers here. i'm at work doing mandatory overtime with little supervison. have the Wings game on and have lost a bit of the motor skills. don't worry though, wife coming to get me for dinner soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 redwings.cup:too many beers here. i'm at work doing mandatory overtime with little supervison. have the Wings game on and have lost a bit of the motor skills. don't worry though, wife coming to get me for dinner soon Funny you say that, I was going to make a comment about alcohol, but refrained. Glad to see you're enjoying yourself. Enjoy your dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwings.cup Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 if nothing else, honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 redwings.cup:if nothing else, honest. When it comes to your drinking, yes. When it comes to your Red Wings, that's debatable. wink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 redwings.cup:sounds like our boy lerxst would rather have Johnson than Hasek. I think any team would have rather had anybody but Hasek tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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