Campaign For Liberty under attack

[SEC=UGA]

SEC -though I respect your well thought out questions I am not going to get sidetracked in this thread. I think I have made clear my positions here. I am not going to answer anybodys questions until I have mine answered. We can get bogged down in a philisophical discussion about Ron Paul and his politics, and I don't go to the mat for Ron Paul on all issues to be sure. This is about a much bigger idea than Ron Paul. And so far, I haven't gotten one single person, not even you, to offer an opinion.

 

Here is my opinion:

I have been to the Friends for Liberty website and a couple of the links to affilliated organizations. I can find nothing but very broad brush strokes of what they believe in:

 

We uphold the ideals of a strict interpretation of the Constitution, the rule of natural law, personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, grassroots empowerment, and sovereignty at the local, state, and national levels.

 

I think these people in large part, especially the heads of these organizations, are probably nut cases blinded by their own agendas. For instance, I am going to assume that they would push to outlaw abortion, strike one. I am relatively certain that they do not fully believe in sovereignty at the local and state level, their desire to push legislation banning abortion. And absolutely that they are not huge fans of limited government, having the government stick there nose into the reproductive rights of women.

 

Now, I choose only one position because to go through their entire platform would take days... That and the entire platform is not well spelled out.

 

Am I inclined to agree with them on issues regarding certain aspects of their stance on immigration, limited government spending, and personal responsibility... Absolutely. But am I inclined to agree with them on their isolationist theories... Absolutely not.

 

I believe that we need to be engaged in the world, I believe that we need "smart" immigration policies that allow the best and brightest from other countries to come here and keep us at the forefront of the industrialized/post-industrialized world.

 

Do I think they go too far in their interpretation of the second amendment, most probably... I see no reason for a US citizen to have free access to FULLY automatic weapons. I see no need for a US citizen to have access to an Abrams tank or an RPG. These people get all bent outta shape when you wanna restrict magazines to 25 rounds or 12 rounds... If you can't kill the dude breaking into your house with fewer than 12 rounds out of a .45, that is a you issue, not a government regulation issue.

 

Do I think they are over reacting to the repeal of their 1st amendment rights, absolutely. They are not being targeted because of what they are saying, more than likely they are being targeted because the way they are broadcasting there message probably goes against established federal law.

 

Further, do I think that this group fully supports a "strict constructionist" view of the Constitution, no. I don't hear them asking for the repeal of direct election of senators, I don't hear them demanding the repeal of a woman's right to vote. I don't hear them clamoring for the repeal of the federal income tax (though they do voice support of either the fair tax or a flat tax.) If they were strict constructionists, they would probably be pulling for repealing the aforementioned amendments.

 

Basically, I think many of these people are actually more in favor of government intrusion into the private lives of people than are the current parties. I hear them whenever I tune into Hannity, Beck, Rush (and believe me it is not that often because this group of blow hards annoys the diaper dirt outta me) who are a bunch of bible thumping, Christian right wingers who think that the goddanged mooslims are about to topple the world. THese are people that are also overly concerned about harry potter in public libraries, these are people that are not concerned about their children having access to things, these are not people who are concerned about secularists influencing their children... these are people that are more concerned about how they can control yopur habits and your children. They are fighting for power and are more than willing to use that same government power, that they feel is being abused, to tell you how you should live your life.

 

That is my opinion.

[rattsass]

After Timothy McVeigh . . I would support any research into potential domestic terrorists. Just like I support making sure that outside terrorists dont get into the US. In fact, I guess you can say I am against terrorism in all forms . . . .

 

I hope that answers your question. I am against terrorism.

 

Now will you answer everyonhe else's questions? Or will you take your ball and go home?

So, I'm going to take that as a straight yes. You do believe in profiling for white Christian gun owners. But you do not believe in profiling for illegal immigrants. Right? I just want to make sure where you stand.

 

Next question: If Campaign for Liberty is designated by our federal government as a terrorist organization (which they clearly view it as) you will be fine with them arresting me for sending them money, hold me without trial indefinitely, and throw away the key? Are you onboard with all this?

[Pope Flick]

So, I'm going to take that as a straight yes. You do believe in profiling for white Christian gun owners. But you do not believe in profiling for illegal immigrants. Right? I just want to make sure where you stand.

 

Next question: If Campaign for Liberty is designated by our federal government as a terrorist organization (which they clearly view it as) you will be fine with them arresting me for sending them money, hold me without trial indefinitely, and throw away the key? Are you onboard with all this?

 

 

 

Right. So you've resorted to putting words into people's mouths, and then bald faced lying about events: people lost their jobs and letters of apology were sent out over a year ago. Some people got a little too revved up in their job put some people on a list and got taken to the woodshed over it. But you want to act as if it's still being done, while STILL AVOIDING our questions, even after you complained for half a page that no one would answer yours when in fact several had.

 

You are a long, long way from making any sense much less being a good fisherman. You avoidance of our questions, linking unrelated events and putting words into people's mouths betrays just how weak your argument (whatever it may be) really, truly is.

[SEC=UGA]

So, I'm going to take that as a straight yes. You do believe in profiling for white Christian gun owners. But you do not believe in profiling for illegal immigrants. Right? I just want to make sure where you stand.

 

Next question: If Campaign for Liberty is designated by our federal government as a terrorist organization (which they clearly view it as) you will be fine with them arresting me for sending them money, hold me without trial indefinitely, and throw away the key? Are you onboard with all this?

 

I do believe that the FBI or other state agencies need to be imbedded in the mebersips of some of the radical Christian churches, yes. Some of those people are very bit as scary and dangerous as mooslim extremists. And if the group of which you speak is funding these organizations then they should be watched as well.

[WaterMan]

So, I'm going to take that as a straight yes. You do believe in profiling for white Christian gun owners. But you do not believe in profiling for illegal immigrants. Right? I just want to make sure where you stand.

 

If you've ever read/watched about how the CIA/FBI works, they don't profile someone and pray the person will mess up. They receive tips on people currently planning and carrying out illegal acts.

[bpwallace49]

So, I'm going to take that as a straight yes. You do believe in profiling for white Christian gun owners. But you do not believe in profiling for illegal immigrants. Right? I just want to make sure where you stand.

 

Next question: If Campaign for Liberty is designated by our federal government as a terrorist organization (which they clearly view it as) you will be fine with them arresting me for sending them money, hold me without trial indefinitely, and throw away the key? Are you onboard with all this?

 

I am against terrorism in all forms, both foreign AND DOMESTIC. So you beleive that potential acts of domestic terrorism should not be investigated? (ample evidence here after Oklahoma for that, just like profiling anyone that looks arabic is a member of Al-Qeada) I will take that you posted that link as a "yes". Right . . so know I know where you stand.

 

So you are admitting that you are supplying a terrorist organization with aid and comfort? So you are openly admitting to committing treason against the United States of America?

 

(see how much fun taking blanket assumptions and twisting them around to get a predetermined conclusion are? I tried to do you proud!!)

[SEC=UGA]

Also, if you are sending them modest amounts of money, it is highly unlikely you will be summarily arrsted and thrown in prison. They are not arresting small time donors to Islamic funds who may not be aware of the criminal activities of the group. You are over reacting.

[rattsass]

Okay, so it seems that everybody is opposed to terrorism. And we all agree then that gitmo and the future gitmo's are just fine. Our govt. may round up anybody they "suspect" of terrorism, hold them forever, torture them, whatever needs to be done.

 

Don't any of you see the slippery slope here? I have spoken previously about the post 911 roundup of "terror suspects", but here is a link in case you want to refresh. http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0905c.asp

 

Here is the interesting thing though. The push for reduction in civil liiberties has not lost any steam despite the fact that there have been no major attacks on American soil since 911. As a matter of fact, there have only been a few botched terror attempts here on our soil, and for all of our espionage few of these were ferreted out before the bumbling perps actually attempted the deeds.

 

So we had a small cell of terrorists that eluded the worlds most sophisicated ibest funded intelligence agency, and took down the towers. We had a terrorist round-up afterwards that netted basically nothing except holding otherwise innocent people in detention. We have a new administration that has identified certain political and religious ideoligies (Muslims and Christians) as potential terrorists. We have a SupremeCourt nominee that we don't have much of a paper trail on, but she was very friendly to all of Bush's executive authority privileges. And she will serve under a president that views a huge group of Americans as possible terror suspects.

 

Does anybody see any danger down the road we are heading? Anybody at all?

 

Is it worth giving up our rights so that we can be ABSOLUTELY protected against terror attacks - though we were unable to stop the one that started all of this? Do you know any NRA members? Any Christians? Are these dangerous people? I think we all need to think long and hard about how much we are willing to give up for some pie in the sky governmental security blanket, one which in the past has failed us?

 

We all need to know where we stand on these issues. You could be next on the "watch list.

 

Oh, and I find it very depressing that left wingers think it is an abomination that Mexicans have to show a drivers license when they get pulled over, but might have no problem with a citizen being profiled for having a bumper sticker on their car. Pretty chitty if you ask me.

[SEC=UGA]

Holy, freaking, christ.... Here we go AGAIN

 

I'm out, Peace.

[rattsass]

Holy, freaking, christ.... Here we go AGAIN

 

I'm out, Peace.

SEC -thanks to you for actually participating. I always enjoy hearing your views.

[rattsass]

I do believe that the FBI or other state agencies need to be imbedded in the mebersips of some of the radical Christian churches, yes. Some of those people are very bit as scary and dangerous as mooslim extremists. And if the group of which you speak is funding these organizations then they should be watched as well.

By the way, would Reverend Wright's church be included in this group if it were up to you?

[SheikYerbuti]

When I go to my place of employment tomorrow, I'm going to spout off to anyone who will listen about my political views. I'll also try and goad anyone within earshot to argue with me about them.

 

That should go great!

[rattsass]

When I go to my place of employment tomorrow, I'm going to spout off to anyone who will listen about my political views. I'll also try and goad anyone within earshot to argue with me about them.

 

That should go great!

I only wish we Americans still had meaningful discussions about politics instead of the insipid American Idol discussions. We have our priorities after all.

 

I was also asked about the Constitutional violations cited in the original post. Of course you all already know that the feds cannot under the Constitution force Americans to purchase any product, including healthcare. Here is a link to other violations. http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2...nstitution.html

 

and this one http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1...nal.html?cat=17

Edited June 23, 2010 by rattsass

[darin3]

Yeah, I didn't think any of you wanted any of this. Not one single meaningful comment or opinion yet. My my my...

[rattsass]

And this is exactly my point. I ask a question that nobody will discuss. Why? A few people gave "I'm against terrorism" answers, but still nobody expressly answered my yes or no question. Nobody. I begged. I pleaded. I acted like an ass to elicit an actual answer. It seems nobody really knows the exact parameters of their own beliefs. I contend we will all be forced to answer those questions at some point. You can only kick that rock down the road so far Darin.

[darin3]

And this is exactly my point. I ask a question that nobody will discuss. Why? A few people gave "I'm against terrorism" answers, but still nobody expressly answered my yes or no question. Nobody. I begged. I pleaded. I acted like an ass to elicit an actual answer. It seems nobody really knows the exact parameters of their own beliefs. I contend we will all be forced to answer those questions at some point. You can only kick that rock down the road so far Darin.

That's not me. It's a little yellow ball man. He is the true enemy.