chicago gun ban shot down

[Kid Cid]

A howitzer? A nuclear weapon? Cruise missiles? Chemical weaponry?

 

You can own a tank, but you just cant drive it around (cant get it licensed) and there is some regulation that requires anything over a certain bore width to get a permit/permission from the ATF . .(I think, all off the top of my head). A lot of places own tanks, but the bore of the main guns are welded shut and inoperable.

 

IMO the fact that training classes dont exist for this kind of weapon, and an explosion could easily wipe out several houses (if not blocks) IMO that kind of stuff shouldnt necessarily be in the hands of untrained civilians.

Not necessarily true. I know someone with a Russian T-72 and the bore isn't welded shut. The only problem is that since they shut down the tank range at Quantico he has no place to fire it. Well, that and it is ungodly expensive to get tank rounds.

[Jimmy Neutron]

Not necessarily true. I know someone with a Russian T-72 and the bore isn't welded shut. The only problem is that since they shut down the tank range at Quantico he has no place to fire it. Well, that and it is ungodly expensive to get tank rounds.

 

The guy that owns Dillon Reloading has all kinds of full auto toys, including aircraft with fully functioning .50 cals and towed anti-aircraft weapons. You should see this guy and hius friends party. I posted video of their games here once... I'm guessing a guy like that has more connections than permits.

[Yukon Cornelius]

I know several guys with cannons . . . hope we didn't need a permit for firing them at the last rendezvous.

I help my neighbor make cannon balls for his.....

[Perchoutofwater]

University of Colorado Puts Politics Ahead of Safety, Rights

June 26th, 2010

The University of Colorado voted Friday to continue fighting for the right to ban guns on campus. The CU Board of Regents voted 5-4 in favor of appealing the lawsuit brought by Students for Concealed Carry on Campus (SCCC), which sought legal confirmation that college directors lack authority to suspend Colorado law or Constitutional rights.

 

Clearly, power and politics, rather than concern for student safety, are ruling the day for CU’s regents. Crime at CU has risen 35 percent in the past four years at the college which prohibits lawful concealed carry, while crime at Colorado State University has dropped 60 percent in the same time frame. No thinking person can look at those numbers and still assert that allowing concealed carry will prove dangerous for the campus.

 

In fact, other colleges in Colorado have seen the handwriting on the wall with the recent legal victory won by SCCC and changed their policies and allowed concealed carry on campus.

 

The Associated Press reported that Tillie Bishop, the swing vote, insisted the regents must be allowed to set the rules for a college campus. This argument may hold for private institutions with the authority to set their own rules on firearms as much as attire or conduct, but public taxpayer-funded institutions must not and do not possess the right to govern or suspend the right to bear arms any more than they can suspend free speech, or govern what books to read or what religion to follow. A right is a right.

 

Regent Michael Carrigan claimed SCCC first chose the oppositional approach by bringing a lawsuit, asking instead that students, faculty and staff be mustered to support ending the gun ban. It appears Regent Carrigan is under the mistaken impression that a majority must express support for a right before it can be granted. (It is doubtful that such a standard would be applied to freedom of speech or of the press.)

 

Regent Stephen Ludwig reiterated the well-worn and well-discredited argument that students experimenting with sex, alcohol and drugs don’t need guns added to the mix. Regent Ludwig should immediately begin tracking down and reporting students who are both licensed to carry concealed weapons and involved with illicit drug use, or who are armed while intoxicated, since either is grounds for permit revocation as well as criminal prosecution.

 

SCCC advocates allowing citizens who already possess the credentials to carry a concealed weapon to carry on campus. Arguments against “arming students” are not relevant, since the argument is not about who should carry, but whether or not colleges can enforce discriminatory policies against those who already carry.

 

By pursuing a costly legal battle with slim odds of success at the expense of the university – students, faculty, staff and ultimately parents and taxpayers – the CU Board of Regents continues to prove its willingness to put personal politics and authority ahead of the greater good of the entire college.

 

Link

 

I found that pretty interesting.

[bpwallace49]

Link

 

I found that pretty interesting.

 

This argument may hold for private institutions with the authority to set their own rules on firearms as much as attire or conduct, but public taxpayer-funded institutions must not and do not possess the right to govern or suspend the right to bear arms any more than they can suspend free speech, or govern what books to read or what religion to follow. A right is a right

 

Good luck carrying a gun into a courtroom using that exact same logic. Or a school.

 

I am all for conceal and carry laws. But I also understand that there are some reasonable limits. This frame of logic has no reasonable limits.

[billay]

Link

 

I found that pretty interesting.

If you go back and look at both Heller and the Chicago gun cases, the fundamental right asserted and recognized by the court pertained to defense of the home. I don't think those cases do anything to support a right for concealed carry.

[Perchoutofwater]

Good luck carrying a gun into a courtroom using that exact same logic. Or a school.

 

I am all for conceal and carry laws. But I also understand that there are some reasonable limits. This frame of logic has no reasonable limits.

 

A few years ago we had a guy with CHL right outside a court house save a woman and small child when the woman's estranged husband started shooting at them on the steps of the court house. I wonder how many lives could have been saved at Columbine or VT if the guys breaking the law weren't the only ones carrying a gun. In order to a CHL you have to go through a very thorough background check as well as fire arms training and legal education on the use of force. It's not like were talking about letting everyone carry. The statistics pretty much speak for themselves. When was the last time you've heard of someone with a CHL committing a gun crime? I'm sure it happens, but the percentages are much lower than that of the general public.

[Perchoutofwater]

If you go back and look at both Heller and the Chicago gun cases, the fundamental right asserted and recognized by the court pertained to defense of the home. I don't think those cases do anything to support a right for concealed carry.

 

You are absolutely right. I question if there are legal grounds to overturn the CU policy. I know that a private business can prevent people with a CHL for carrying on their property, and that bars, churches (if they choose to prohibit it), and federal and state buildings have restrictions. Any private business in the State of Texas can prohibited with a simple sign stating "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN." The sign must read that exactly. I've always found it funny that the code was 30.06. Having said all that I still think banning license holders from carrying is stupid, and would speak with my pocket book sending my kid to a university that allows my girls to protect themselves.

[bpwallace49]

A few years ago we had a guy with CHL right outside a court house save a woman and small child when the woman's estranged husband started shooting at them on the steps of the court house. I wonder how many lives could have been saved at Columbine or VT if the guys breaking the law weren't the only ones carrying a gun. In order to a CHL you have to go through a very thorough background check as well as fire arms training and legal education on the use of force. It's not like were talking about letting everyone carry. The statistics pretty much speak for themselves. When was the last time you've heard of someone with a CHL committing a gun crime? I'm sure it happens, but the percentages are much lower than that of the general public.

 

You are not understanding my point Perch. Is concealed carry allowed IN courtrooms? if it is not (your exception was OUTSIDE right??) then the logic in your opinion piece would dictate that everyone with concealed carry should be allowed in courtrooms. In your example, a estranged husband could still qualify for concealed carry himself.

 

I am all for concealed carry, but also respect the fact that there are logical limits and restrictions.

 

The college thing would have me worried. Moreso for the fact that colleges arent exactly free from theft or drunken stupidity. I am not worried about the people WITH the concealed carry permits, but the thousands of drunken idiots in close proximity that do NOT.

 

In your article, is there frequent "drawing down" on people? cause that would make this whole exercise worthwhile . . .

[tazinib1]

Riding on the heels of this verdict, New Hampshire has just passed a gun law allowing civilians to carry guns to work. Ummmmmmmm....what?

[Perchoutofwater]

You are not understanding my point Perch. Is concealed carry allowed IN courtrooms? if it is not (your exception was OUTSIDE right??) then the logic in your opinion piece would dictate that everyone with concealed carry should be allowed in courtrooms. In your example, a estranged husband could still qualify for concealed carry himself.

 

I am all for concealed carry, but also respect the fact that there are logical limits and restrictions.

 

The college thing would have me worried. Moreso for the fact that colleges arent exactly free from theft or drunken stupidity. I am not worried about the people WITH the concealed carry permits, but the thousands of drunken idiots in close proximity that do NOT.

 

In your article, is there frequent "drawing down" on people? cause that would make this whole exercise worthwhile . . .

 

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be some restrictions as well. I would rather see gun checks at courthouses, rather then having to leave them in your car where they can be stolen. If your going there to do premeditated harm, you aren't going to care about the law. If you carry, have a check in at the metal detector. I agree with not allowing them in bars for obvious reasons. I do not think they should be restricted on college campuses as the statistics show when conceal carry is allowed, it reduces the crime rate, and when it is restricted it increases it.

[Jimmy Neutron]

You can carry in schools in Utah and to my knowledge, there was never an issue with a CCW holder.

 

Chicago did just pass a city ordinance that is now "the most comprehensive gun legislation" in any city. The vote was 45 to 0 by the city council - sounds like a real harbor of political diversity and process... freaking The previous city ban sure made the city safe...

[Perchoutofwater]

You can carry in schools in Utah and to my knowledge, there was never an issue with a CCW holder. ]

 

Federal law prohibits carrying in public schools (excluding colleges and universities). You can drive on campus carrying, but as soon as you get out of the car you are in violation of the GFSZ Act of 1996. So basically you have to leave it in the car if you get out, where it could possibly be stolen. The SCOTUS declared the more strict GFSZ Act of 1990 unconstitutional which prohibited you from being within 1,000 feet of a school with a firearm.

[bpwallace49]

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be some restrictions as well. I would rather see gun checks at courthouses, rather then having to leave them in your car where they can be stolen. If your going there to do premeditated harm, you aren't going to care about the law. If you carry, have a check in at the metal detector. I agree with not allowing them in bars for obvious reasons. I do not think they should be restricted on college campuses as the statistics show when conceal carry is allowed, it reduces the crime rate, and when it is restricted it increases it.

 

I agree