GMOZ! Obama is raising taxes!

[bpwallace49]

From Obama, the Tax Cut Nobody Heard Of

 

By MICHAEL COOPER

 

It is not a rhetorical question. At Pig Pickin’ and Politickin’, a barbecue-fed rally organized here last week by a Republican women’s club, a half-dozen guests were asked by a reporter what had happened to their taxes since President Obama took office.

 

“Federal and state have both gone up,” said Bob Paratore, 59, from nearby Charlotte, echoing the comments of others.

 

After further prodding — including a reminder that a provision of the stimulus bill had cut taxes for 95 percent of working families by changing withholding rates — Mr. Paratore’s memory was jogged.

 

“You’re right, you’re right,” he said. “I’ll be honest with you: it was so subtle that personally, I didn’t notice it.”

 

Few people apparently did.

 

In a troubling sign for Democrats as they head into the midterm elections, their signature tax cut of the past two years, which decreased income taxes by up to $400 a year for individuals and $800 for married couples, has gone largely unnoticed.

 

In a New York Times/CBS News Poll last month, fewer than one in 10 respondents knew that the Obama administration had lowered taxes for most Americans. Half of those polled said they thought that their taxes had stayed the same, a third thought that their taxes had gone up, and about a tenth said they did not know. As Thom Tillis, a Republican state representative, put it as the dinner wound down here, “This was the tax cut that fell in the woods — nobody heard it.”

 

Actually, the tax cut was, by design, hard to notice. Faced with evidence that people were more likely to save than spend the tax rebate checks they received during the Bush administration, the Obama administration decided to take a different tack: it arranged for less tax money to be withheld from people’s paychecks.

 

They reasoned that people would be more likely to spend a small, recurring extra bit of money that they might not even notice, and that the quicker the money was spent, the faster it would cycle through the economy.

 

Economists are still measuring how stimulative the tax cut was. But the hard-to-notice part has succeeded wildly. In a recent interview, President Obama said that structuring the tax cuts so that a little more money showed up regularly in people’s paychecks “was the right thing to do economically, but politically it meant that nobody knew that they were getting a tax cut.”

 

“And in fact what ended up happening was six months into it, or nine months into it,” the president said, “people had thought we had raised their taxes instead of cutting their taxes.”

 

There are plenty of explanations as to why many taxpayers did not feel richer when the cuts kicked in, giving typical families an extra $65 a month. Some people were making less money to begin with, as businesses cut back. Others saw their take-home pay shrink as the amounts deducted for health insurance rose.

 

And taxpayers in more than 30 states saw their state taxes rise, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

 

That is what happened here in North Carolina. The Treasury Department estimated that the federal tax cut would put $1.7 billion back in the hands of North Carolina taxpayers this year. Last year, though, North Carolina, facing a large budget shortfall, raised a variety of state taxes by roughly a billion dollars.

 

“It was a wash,” said Mr. Tillis, the state representative.

 

The guests at the Pig Pickin’ rally here could rattle off the names of the House speaker and the Senate majority leader with ease, if with disdain, and were up on many of the political controversies of the day. They studied the campaign fliers at their tables, and pocketed the 1.5-ounce jars of strawberry preserves with special labels urging them to vote for Judge Bill Constangy for Superior Court (“Preserving Justice,” the labels read).

 

Many volunteered that they thought the Bush tax cuts should be extended for all taxpayers, even for the wealthy ones whom Mr. Obama would like to exclude. But few had heard that there had also been Obama tax cuts — which will also expire next year unless extended, but have generated far less public debate.

 

Bob Deaton, 73, who wore a “Fair Tax” baseball cap, was surprised to hear that there were tax cuts in the $787 billion stimulus bill, which was wildly unpopular with many at the rally even though roughly a third of it was in the form of tax cuts.

 

“Tax cuts?” he asked. “Where were the tax cuts?”

 

Ron Julian, 50, a Huntersville town commissioner, said he thought his taxes had gone up under Mr. Obama. And Mr. Paratore, a former Hearst executive, said he might have noticed the tax cuts if his paycheck had jumped more in the weeks before he retired last year: “I couldn’t even tell you what it was, to be honest with you.”

 

The Obama administration wants to extend the little-noticed tax cut next year. Jason Furman, the deputy director of the National Economic Council, said the administration still believes that changing the withholdings was a more effective form of stimulus than sending out rebate checks would have been.

 

“In retrospect, we think that judgment was right,” he said. “It’s harder to predict what’s good for politics. Ultimately, the best thing for politics is going to be helping the economy.”

 

But at least one prominent economist is questioning whether the method really was more effective. Joel B. Slemrod, a professor of economics at the University of Michigan, analyzed consumer surveys after the last rebate checks were sent out in 2008 by the Bush administration, and after this tax cut, called Making Work Pay, went into effect under the Obama administration.

 

After the 2008 rebates, he found that about a quarter of the households surveyed said they would use the money primarily to increase their spending. After the Obama tax cut took effect, he said, only 13 percent said they would use the money primarily to increase their spending. The Obama administration believes that people did spend the money, and cites analyses calling the cut one of the more effective forms of stimulus.

 

Mr. Slemrod said it was not unheard of for voters to miss tax cuts. Just a few years after a 1986 overhaul of the tax system made significant cuts to most people’s taxes, he said, a survey asked people what had happened to their taxes. “Most people didn’t answer that they went down,” he said.

 

GMOZ!! Scaaary future! taxes going up!!

[redrumjuice]

I liked the old skins better.

[bpwallace49]

I liked the old skins better.

 

I liked the old caddyman/zeke/h8tank better too.

[SEC=UGA]

The Obama administration believes that people did spend the money, and cites analyses calling the cut one of the more effective forms of stimulus.

 

[bpwallace49]

 

I at that part. really dont know how they can trumpet that as a success but hey . . they need to grasp at something.

 

I loved this article because it shows how effective the right wing propaganda can be to those unwilling to look past the partisan crap and look at details.

 

fact= Obama cut taxes

fantasy= Right wing convinces people that their taxes went UP

 

Point to the right for convincing people otherwise, just like the % of people that beleive Obama is a Kenyan m00slim. Well done . . .

[redrumjuice]

That op ed is as factual as this one.

 

Democrats Could Lose Up To 8,000 Seats In Upcoming Midterm Election

[SEC=UGA]

I at that part. really dont know how they can trumpet that as a success but hey . . they need to grasp at something.

 

I loved this article because it shows how effective the right wing propaganda can be to those unwilling to look past the partisan crap and look at details.

 

fact= Obama cut taxes

fantasy= Right wing convinces people that their taxes went UP

 

Point to the right for convincing people otherwise, just like the % of people that beleive Obama is a Kenyan m00slim. Well done . . .

 

Fact - One of the most stimulative of the programs, according to the Obama administration was the tax cut....

 

I think people are generally ill informed, this just proves it... I simply thought the withholding levels decreased, no that the tax rate was actually cut. I could be wrong, I know that the income thresholds for the given brackets increased over those years, but did not know he reduced taxes. All the business losses over the past few years have made it difficult to tell what income tax rates are...

[Savage Beatings]

Changing withholding rates is NOT a tax cut. You get taxed the exact same amount, you just keep more money up front and then you owe more after you file.

[SEC=UGA]

Changing withholding rates is NOT a tax cut. You get taxed the exact same amount, you just keep more money up front and then you owe more after you file.

 

Ummm, not me over the past couple of years.. lol... I think

[PPIchamp]

What did Obama say over and over and over in the campaign? "No one making less than $250K will see their taxes go up." Well, somedays it was $200K, one time it was $150K, but whatever.

What's one of the first things he did upon entering office? Raised the cigarette tax....does no one who makes less than $250K smoke? In fact, statistics show that the less money you make the more likely you are to be a smoker. hmmmm.... Standing up for the little guy.

[Savage Beatings]

fantasy= Right wing convinces people that their taxes went UP

 

I don't think anyone (not that I know of) has argued that taxes have already gone up. But the debt certainly has, and we might never be able to pay it back. So either taxes are for sure going to go up because of what Obama has done, or else inflation will go up. Either way we will pay, so it's pretty hard to give credit to this Administration for being a fiscal friend to the individual like they are trying to pass off here in this article.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Savage Beatings

[bpwallace49]

Changing withholding rates is NOT a tax cut. You get taxed the exact same amount, you just keep more money up front and then you owe more after you file.

 

http://politics.usnews.com/news/stimulus/a...-democrats.html

 

[Savage Beatings]

Ummm, not me over the past couple of years.. lol... I think

 

If your actual tax rate haas changed it was not because of this withholding change.

[SEC=UGA]

If your actual tax rate haas changed it was not because of this withholding change.

 

this was in reference to me personally having to pay more over the past few years when I file...

[SEC=UGA]

http://politics.usnews.com/news/stimulus/a...-democrats.html

 

 

But, the personal income tax rates reamined the same, thought the income levels at which those tax rates were triggered increased marginally... So the main the "tax cut" of which they speak was mainly with regard the the reduction in withholding, that you may have to pay at the end of the year any way, thus the government allowing you to keep more of the money you earned up front, rather than using it as an interest free loan for the course of a year?

 

The other "tax cuts" in your link are somewhat valid... But in large part do not apply to "personal income tax rates" as would be suggested by the author of the article.

[Savage Beatings]

http://politics.usnews.com/news/stimulus/a...-democrats.html

 

 

I don't think anyone (not that I know of) has argued that taxes have already gone up. But the debt certainly has, and we might never be able to pay it back. So either taxes are for sure going to go up because of what Obama has done, or else inflation will go up. Either way we will pay, so it's pretty hard to give credit to this Administration for being a fiscal friend to the individual like they are trying to pass off here in this article.

[bpwallace49]

I don't think anyone (not that I know of) has argued that taxes have already gone up. But the debt certainly has, and we might never be able to pay it back. So either taxes are for sure going to go up because of what Obama has done, or else inflation will go up. Either way we will pay, so it's pretty hard to give credit to this Administration for being a fiscal friend to the individual like they are trying to pass off here in this article.

 

Um . . the people in the article did, remember? Props to the conservative propaganda machine . .

 

It sure isnt painting Obama as a tax cutting hero, but moreso lamenting how easily people are fooled into believing that evil Kenyan communist m00slim has been raisin' yer taxes. If only facts worked as well as propaganda . . .

 

I am actively rooting for every Democrat to lose their races, and Obama to lose the next presidential election. That way the right will either balance the budget, or be forced to explain to the American people why they cant. Bush didnt show ANY fiscal restraint, so it will be interesting to see who get trotted out as the next savior of fiscal responsibility . . .

[bpwallace49]

Another problem entirely was the fact that while federal taxes got cut, many states increased their taxes to cover massive shortfalls. End result, no one notices.

[SEC=UGA]

Um . . the people in the article did, remember? Props to the conservative propaganda machine . .

 

It sure isnt painting Obama as a tax cutting hero, but moreso lamenting how easily people are fooled into believing that evil Kenyan communist m00slim has been raisin' yer taxes. If only facts worked as well as propaganda . . .

 

I am actively rooting for every Democrat to lose their races, and Obama to lose the next presidential election. That way the right will either balance the budget, or be forced to explain to the American people why they cant. Bush didnt show ANY fiscal restraint, so it will be interesting to see who get trotted out as the next savior of fiscal responsibility . . .

 

There is not a fiscally conservative politician left in this country... They all have their pet projects and you will never see a balanced budget amendment. We are screwed until some real change takes place.

[Yukon Cornelius]

 

But the debt certainly has, and we might never be able to pay it back

they said that after Nancy Reagan's terms also.

[driveby]

Obama tax cuts.

[HowboutthemCowboys]

We are screwed until some real change takes place.

The only actual fact I've seen typed in this thread. "Real change" .. meh...don't hold your breath...

[Ursa Majoris]

Obama tax cuts.

 

 

Citizens for Tax Justice, a self-described non-partisan organization, released a report on Tuesday that read: "The 2009 economic stimulus bill actually reduced federal income taxes for tax year 2009 for 98 percent of all working families and individuals." This total includes the 95 percent of working families that will or have received tax credits in the range of $400 to $800.

 

[Pope Flick]

Obama tax cuts.

 

 

Go look at a Jan 2009 paystub and then a March or April 2009 paystub, dumbass. You're clearly not teaching math.

[The Mucca]

Citizens for Tax Justice is a Liberal public policy organization specializing in federal tax issues.

 

Go figure.