What is your "religious denomination" (basically)

[Kid Cid]

That doesn't make any sense.

 

This post appears to need repeated:

A child that has no concept of gods fits neither of those definitions because both of those definitions require knowledge of gods to make a choice. The question then becomes, does a child fit into one of those definitions better than the other?

[Furd]

I suppose one could consult a dictionary and adopt one of the four or five listed definitions, particularly those that are considered broad. Which, by the way, proves the point of common misuse of the word agnostic to describe someone that is "undecided" about the existence of a god.

 

Or one could look at the construction of the word itself.

 

In any event, I think that what it boils down to is that some people that do not believe in the existence of god are comfortable with the accurate label of atheist and some people aren't. And that's the thing - why are people so fearful of that label? i think that partly its because most atheists run and hide from that term. They mask their belief that god does not exist (I know that many of you who are "undecided" will refuse to admit or recognize that you do not believe that god exists, but you don't) with their uncertainty - as if that makes them more "acceptable" or godly than other nonbelievers.

 

The people that believe that god exists are theists. All others (those that fervently disavow the existence of a god, those who don't acknowledge the existence of god but aren't really sure, those who say maybe, and those that don't know or haven't even thought about it) are atheists.

 

And that's about it.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Furd

[Ursa Majoris]

I suppose one could consult a dictionary and adopt one of the four or five listed definitions, particularly those that are considered broad. Which, by the way, proves the point of common misuse of the word agnostic to describe someone that is "undecided" about the existence of a god.

 

Or one could look at the construction of the word itself.

 

In any event, I think that what it boils down to is that some people that do not believe in the existence of god are comfortable with the accurate label of atheist and some people aren't. And that's the thing - why are people so fearful of that label? i think that partly its because most atheists run and hide from that term. They mask their belief that god does not exist (I know that many of you who are "undecided" will refuse to admit or recognize that you do not believe that god exists, but you don't) with their uncertainty - as if that makes them more "acceptable" or godly than other nonbelievers.

 

The people that believe that god exists are theists. All others (those that fervently disavow the existence of a god, those who don't acknowledge the existence of god but aren't really sure, those who say maybe, and those that don't know or haven't even thought about it) are atheists.

 

And that's about it.

I certainly appreciate your argument but if the definition of an atheist is one who has made a positive decision that there is no god, then the prevailing definition of an agnostic obviously holds true, thus there are more than two dots on this particular line. Your definition of an atheist includes anyone not a positive theist. This is a tad like assuming everyone is either a declared Republican or, if they are not, they must therefore be a Democrat.

[isleseeya]

You're both wrong. A baby is nowhere near capable of grasping the concept, so it doesn't believe or disbelieve in God. ie it has no real "religious beliefs."

 

And I have this crazy idea God kinda takes that into account....

 

Sorry but having a belief does not make one wrong ...There does not have to be a wrong answer here and certainly i do not believe i am wrong

 

I believe in Kid's 'theory,' there is no afterlife or heaven and therefore, if an infant, a teen, or an adult dies, they have no chance for afterlife or heaven.

 

I dont

[isleseeya]

Take a step back and think about things for a second. Belief or non-belief is not an instinct, it is the result of a conscious decision. We are not born with a belief gene. The same can be said about us being able to use forks or do simple addition. This is why we have schools, so that the accumulated knowledge of those that have come before us can be passed on to those coming after us and that they can function in the social and cultural construct that we have created. The concepts of gods and religion are taught to all of us starting at an early age. Even if the parents aren't religious in their own right, an individual is exposed to religion even though a simple question like "Daddy, what's that big white building with the tall pointy thing on top?"

 

Part of the knowledge that has been accumulated over time is the writings about gods and religion. This includes not just the current writings on Christ and Muhammad, but also what we now call mythology or the gods of other cultures including Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Sumerian, etc. (As an aside, you'll notice that any religion or collections of gods not part of the current cultural structure is lumped into the category of mythology. It makes one wonder when the same will happen to the currently active religions). It is important to note, that each and every belief system is taught, either through a structured class environment, casual experience or in the home. However, no individual comes out of the womb with an innate ability to identify their particular god.

 

Now to answer your question, the afterlife is a construct of a particular religion. It has no actual meaning in the physical world in which our consciousness exists. Each religion or culture structures the afterlife according to how it fits in within the existing constructs of their dogma. In the Christian construct, adults are encouraged to Baptize a child as soon as possible so that they can have the mark upon them that allows their God to recognize them and allow them into heaven (for a lack of a better way of saying it). So exceptionally early in that child's life, the adults begin imprinting their cultural and religious values upon an infant that is incapable of grasping these higher concepts. It also assuages the adult's fear of the very thing you mentioned, that because the child cannot grasp the concept of a gods or gods, that they are in essence atheistic and therefore not allowed into the bonus round.

 

my reply to you originally was to stir the pot a bit ( not in a bad way )

 

I totally see and understand what you are saying and i agree with much of it in that certainly there has to be conscious decisions made as one progresses in life whether its about their faith , or about what job they want ...This can not be done by an infant

 

I also agree that much of what is learned and taught makes up the basis for decisions that people will make in life

 

I have no problem with this ... I also know we will not agree on some of this and where i see we wont is that my belief and faith leads me to believe that we are all born with a soul and a spirit . That we are in fact creations of God which in itself would mean we are not atheistic by nature

 

ofcourse in time , when we grow , when we learn and when we choose ( because I do believe in the Gift of Free choice ) then we ultimately decide what direction to go

 

But the basis to me and my beliefs is since we are created by God there is no way He would create us to be atheistic ...I believe the seed is planted

 

and going back to your last point which was my 2nd point , in Christianity and throughout New Testament it is noted that nfants and children belong to God ...That the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to them ...There are references of protection of them and God's overwhelming love for them

 

This equates the belief that children and infants are already saved ...If god forbid they were to die , the belief is that they are saved and would be saved by the Lord

 

Understanding that if you are an atheist or non believer , this may not make sense or be acceptable but from my side i believe it is not only acceptable it is the truth