Azazello1313 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Schleck is now the virtual leader of the tour as they begin the final climb should maybe note that it's ANDY schleck. yeah, 3+ minutes up at the start of the last climb, after attacking on the izoard. best news of all for andy is he had two teammates up ahead that are now riding tempo for him up the climb. I don't think the rest of the leaders will catch him...only question is how much time will he gain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 should maybe note that it's ANDY schleck. yeah, 3+ minutes up at the start of the last climb, after attacking on the izoard. best news of all for andy is he had two teammates up ahead that are now riding tempo for him up the climb. I don't think the rest of the leaders will catch him...only question is how much time will he gain? Right, Andy. I'm not going to say anything else in case someone DVRd it, but that was an exciting stage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 so, voeckler dropped contadope, and everybody else not named schleck or evans, on the final climb. uh huh. this sport has a way of being simultaneously thrilling and absolutely sickening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 so, voeckler dropped contadope, and everybody else not named schleck or evans, on the final climb. uh huh. this sport has a way of being simultaneously thrilling and absolutely sickening. Another way of saying that was that he hung on for dear life and others couldn't. Well, that is until Evans and Scheleck, and Basso pulled away from him at the end. In fact, that would actually be the correct way of saying it. Listen, maybe he's doping, but it's not as if he's completely out of nowhere. He's had his moments in the past. It is possible that he just came into the tour particularly ready this year. It's not as if he's dominated in the mountains, he's just been able to stick with guys who maybe underestimated him and gave him liberties early on that they shouldn't have. Notice that he's yet to assert himself at any point since they've gotten into the big climbs. He's just been hanging in there better than anyone ever thought. And, again, it's not like he went from domestique to leader of the tour. You'll notice the number on his jersey ends with a 1. That means he's the leader of his team. A team that's actually done a pretty good job of backing him up. In the chase group today, his was the only team with more than one rider in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 it's not as if he's completely out of nowhere. He's had his moments in the past. he's been one of those guys that lucked into the yellow jersey for a number of days by getting in a breakaway that the big boys didn't care about and gaining hugh amounts of time. any notoriety has come directly from that 15 minutes of fame that was simply a result of being in the right place at the right time. now he's on a new team, at 32 years old, and suddenly he's dropping most of the best climbers in the world (many of whom are almost certainly doping themselves) and now here he is a serious threat to podium in the TDF. and he's been with a domestique pretty much the whole way (rollande) who has also come out of nowhere to be stronger than all but 3 or 4 of the best climbers in the world in the mountain stages. come on. it's even more obvious than michael rasmussen in 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 should maybe note that it's ANDY schleck. yeah, 3+ minutes up at the start of the last climb, after attacking on the izoard. best news of all for andy is he had two teammates up ahead that are now riding tempo for him up the climb. I don't think the rest of the leaders will catch him...only question is how much time will he gain? What's great about how it played out is that it STILL leaves plenty of drama for the Alpe - the Schlecks STILL need time to get some breathing space for the TT (unless something has changed drastically, both of their TT skills qualify as a step above "abysmal"); Contador may or may not be done, but he needs to get time back to even have a chance to catch the Schlecks in the TT (Sanchez is just too far down); Right now, you've gotta like the 2 Schlecks vs 1 Evans, but if it's close, Cadel is a MUCH better TT than either of them; and Cunego or Basso may be able to pull off an attack, who knows? Neither of them did ANY work in the chase today, or have made any aggressive moves for the entire Tour. Not to mention that, clean or not, Voeckler is still the man in yellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 he's been one of those guys that lucked into the yellow jersey for a number of days by getting in a breakaway that the big boys didn't care about and gaining hugh amounts of time. any notoriety has come directly from that 15 minutes of fame that was simply a result of being in the right place at the right time. now he's on a new team, at 32 years old, and suddenly he's dropping most of the best climbers in the world (many of whom are almost certainly doping themselves) and now here he is a serious threat to podium in the TDF. and he's been with a domestique pretty much the whole way (rollande) who has also come out of nowhere to be stronger than all but 3 or 4 of the best climbers in the world in the mountain stages. come on. it's even more obvious than michael rasmussen in 2007. Either that or he's in the right place at the right time, and taking advantage of a wide open tour at the top, where nobody has a team like lance had in the past that could just take the thing over. Oh, and speaking of Lance's former teams, how many of those guys had you heard about before the first time they escorted him through the mountains. And how many of them would you still never know about if we hadn't been spoon-fed details about them because they were on Capt. America's team. As if either of us can pretend that we follow this sport enough to truly be surprised by how well someone like Rollande is doing. Are you watching cycling all year? I'm not. Again, and you even made this point when you were poo-pooing the stage earlier. Basically saying that nobody was truly putting the pedal down. So? Which is it? Is Voeckler riding out of his mind in and amongst riders who are going full tilt? Or is he just taking advantage of the fact that nobody has really ridden the way we're used to seeing guys like Lance ride because they're all afraid to make a move (until yesterday)? I'd say it's somewhere in the middle. Regardless, unlike Rassmussen, he's not dominating the mountains (it should be noted that Rassmussen was in polka dot as well as yellow when he got kicked out. No, like in 2004, Voeckler got away early. Unlike 2004, he's perhaps stronger and there's not a truly dominant rider to take it away from him. It should also be noted that it's not as if he surrendered the thing right away back then either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Unlike 2004, he's perhaps stronger and there's not a truly dominant rider to take it away from him. It should also be noted that it's not as if he surrendered the thing right away back then either. Did you see him at the end of the stage? If the others like Schleck and Evans were riding to the very maximum of their ability and endurance, Voeckler seemed to have gone beyond what he is generally capable of. That guy was turned inside out. Such is the sport that you look at that effort and dread the controls coming back positive, but UCI has shown they aren't opposed to yanking a guy out of yellow or off the podium if he comes back dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Did you see him at the end of the stage? If the others like Schleck and Evans were riding to the very maximum of their ability and endurance, Voeckler seemed to have gone beyond what he is generally capable of. That guy was turned inside out. Such is the sport that you look at that effort and dread the controls coming back positive, but UCI has shown they aren't opposed to yanking a guy out of yellow or off the podium if he comes back dirty. Well said. And yes, not unlike other stages, he does seem to be hanging on for dear life. But yesterday seemed even more so. I would be amazed if he's got another in his back pocket today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Wow, not wasting any time today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Again, and you even made this point when you were poo-pooing the stage earlier. Basically saying that nobody was truly putting the pedal down. So? Which is it? Is Voeckler riding out of his mind in and amongst riders who are going full tilt? Or is he just taking advantage of the fact that nobody has really ridden the way we're used to seeing guys like Lance ride because they're all afraid to make a move (until yesterday)? I'd say it's somewhere in the middle. well, it is somewhere in the middle. I mean, on the stage I complained about nobody attacking, the top riders were still pushing a strong enough pace that all the other dozens of also-ran guys in the peloton (like voeckler until this year) couldn't hang, and you had a select group of 6 or 7 guys going up that climb. the gripe was that guys like contador weren't attacking, and the schlecks only halfheartedly. the top guys were all riding defensively, and that makes for a boring stage (very much in contrast to what we've seen in the alps). none of this has anything to do with voeckler suddenly, at age 32, miraculously going from an also-ran breakaway specialist to an elite climber and serious threat to podium in the TDF (though today isn't looking good for him). in the final time trial the last three years, voeckler has finished 128th, 115th and 145th (in '08, '09, and '10 respectively). let's see where he slots in tomorrow. Edited July 22, 2011 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Such is the sport that you look at that effort and dread the controls coming back positive, but UCI has shown they aren't opposed to yanking a guy out of yellow or off the podium if he comes back dirty. with rasmussen, his team pulled the plug on him. contador came back dirty last year and, well, what happened to him? oh, it was some "bad beef" with banned performance enhancing drugs. and traces of blood-bag plastic. yeah that's it. the UCI has two interrelated goals....one, to make people think "the peloton is finally clean because our doping controls are solid", and to that end they will throw guys out from time to time if a test comes back positive. but their other goal is to keep the sport from totally falling apart under doping allegations and suspicions -- and looking at what we know about the last several years, I would say that goal has led to a lot of looking the other way, playing dumb, sweeping under the rug, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well, this should come down to the wire tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well, this should come down to the wire tomorrow. No kidding. Based on the way Evans rode this week, I'm rooting for him to win the Tour. And I don't have anything against the Schlecks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detlef Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) No kidding. Based on the way Evans rode this week, I'm rooting for him to win the Tour. And I don't have anything against the Schlecks. Funny, I applaud his strategy, but not his fire. There were two guys who laid it on the line this week, Andy and Contador. I have a hard time pulling for a guy to win it all who never took charge in the mountains. Mind you, I don't fault him because he had no reason to help Andy today. But I'm not rooting for him over a guy who went out and tried to win the tour on a bold breakaway in the mountains. Mind you, I won't bum me out if he wins. I've always liked him as a rider. But I went into the tour pulling for Andy and was fired up by his move yesterday. ETA: I know Schleck is not the time trialist that Evens is, but I'll be damned if a guy who gets to start last and knows he's got a minute buffer is not going to do what it takes. To be honest, I would imagine the smart money is on Evens tomorrow, even with the minute gap, but I'm guessing Andy pulls it off. Talk about appointment TV. Edited July 23, 2011 by detlef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Funny, I applaud his strategy, but not his fire. There were two guys who laid it on the line this week, Andy and Contador. I have a hard time pulling for a guy to win it all who never took charge in the mountains. Mind you, I don't fault him because he had no reason to help Andy today. But I'm not rooting for him over a guy who went out and tried to win the tour on a bold breakaway in the mountains. Mind you, I won't bum me out if he wins. I've always liked him as a rider. But I went into the tour pulling for Andy and was fired up by his move yesterday. this is sort of where I am too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Funny, I applaud his strategy, but not his fire. There were two guys who laid it on the line this week, Andy and Contador. I have a hard time pulling for a guy to win it all who never took charge in the mountains. Mind you, I don't fault him because he had no reason to help Andy today. But I'm not rooting for him over a guy who went out and tried to win the tour on a bold breakaway in the mountains. Mind you, I won't bum me out if he wins. I've always liked him as a rider. But I went into the tour pulling for Andy and was fired up by his move yesterday. See, I think Schleck was engaging in the same tactics as Evans UP UNTIL Thursday. Evans showed enough fire by chasing down both breaks and keeping the times in hand - I saw him several times going "hey, ANYONE ELSE GONNA TAKE A PULL? ANYONE? ANYONE?" and acting like he was saying screw it, but he'd always get back up there and hammer. If it were Evans doing that to anyone else, I might agree with you. But you knew that Leopard was going to use Frank and Andy as the hammer and anvil on anyone who tried to attack them. I think the TT is a toss up; if it were Cadel vs Andy Schleck for grins and giggles, I'd bet on Cadel. But Andy Schleck wearing yellow with a minute...he doesn't need to be GREAT in that situation to hang onto the jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerx Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 This Tour de France thing is still going on??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 See, I think Schleck was engaging in the same tactics as Evans UP UNTIL Thursday. Evans showed enough fire by chasing down both breaks and keeping the times in hand - I saw him several times going "hey, ANYONE ELSE GONNA TAKE A PULL? ANYONE? ANYONE?" and acting like he was saying screw it, but he'd always get back up there and hammer. I'm with chavez. cadel has rode his ass off chasing down breakaways single-handedly. I've always been kinda lukewarm on cadel until the last few days. I hope he wins, but at the same time I hope andy wins too...because both guys have absolutely "left it all on the field", riding their race, putting in epic efforts along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm with chavez. cadel has rode his ass off chasing down breakaways single-handedly. I've always been kinda lukewarm on cadel until the last few days. I hope he wins, but at the same time I hope andy wins too...because both guys have absolutely "left it all on the field", riding their race, putting in epic efforts along the way. Evans always had the rep as a wheelsucker but I'd say since wearing the rainbow stripes in '09 he's been a TON more aggressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm with chavez. cadel has rode his ass off chasing down breakaways single-handedly. you know, he wouldn't have to chase down breakaways single-handedly if he were the one in the breakaway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 you know, he wouldn't have to chase down breakaways single-handedly if he were the one in the breakaway He'd never be allowed to make those moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 He'd never be allowed to make those moves. this doesn't completely negate my argument--he could have gone with Shleck two days ago and stopped the breakaway in its tracks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 this doesn't completely negate my argument--he could have gone with Shleck two days ago and stopped the breakaway in its tracks Maybe...even probably. The issue with stopping one Schleck on an attack is that immediately the OTHER one goes. They play the one-two game perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chavez Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Also, how fun did Dutch Corner look? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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