‎4487 dead and 32226 wounded,

[SEC=UGA]

 

Club, I expect more from you.

[Square]

Iraq and N. Korea involve so many divergent circumstances that one could author a 2,000 page text explaining why we would invade one and not the other.

So we need detlef to post about it?

[Clubfoothead]

Club, I expect more from you.

 

When that is your opening permise, you should consider my reply generous.

 

We prefer happy pickles.

[bushwacked]

But even the wingnuts have reached a new low with the smear campaign they have launched against two-time Iraqi war veteren, Scott Olsen. Olsen is the protester who was critically injured when his scull was fractured after police fired a projectile into the crowd at the Oakland OWS.

 

The Gateway Pundit is the go to site for the extreme ideological right wing. It also has the journalistic integrity of North Korea. In the latest post by this vile website, Jim Hoft, Gateway’s owner wrote and posted this article titled “Good Grief… Leftie Hero Scott Olsen Is Founder of “I Hate the Marines Corps.com” & Is a Jew-Basher”.

 

He was a standup guy!

 

My name is Scott Olsen and I hate the Marine Corps more than you.

 

This puke is a scumbag all the way.

 

 

Maybe instead of whining about me observing the truth you ladies should figure out how to handle it.

[detlef]

So we need detlef to post about it?

As you wish...

 

"Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the

Buonapartes. But I warn you, if you don't tell me that this means war,

if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by

that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have

nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend, no longer

my 'faithful slave,' as you call yourself! But how do you do? I see

I have frightened you- sit down and tell me all the news."

 

It was in July, 1805, and the speaker was the well-known Anna

Pavlovna Scherer, maid of honor and favorite of the Empress Marya

Fedorovna. With these words she greeted Prince Vasili Kuragin, a man

of high rank and importance, who was the first to arrive at her

reception. Anna Pavlovna had had a cough for some days. She was, as

she said, suffering from la grippe; grippe being then a new word in

St. Petersburg, used only by the elite.

 

All her invitations without exception, written in French, and

delivered by a scarlet-liveried footman that morning, ran as follows:

 

"If you have nothing better to do, Count [or Prince], and if the

prospect of spending an evening with a poor invalid is not too

terrible, I shall be very charmed to see you tonight between 7 and 10-

Annette Scherer."

 

"Heavens! what a virulent attack!" replied the prince, not in the

least disconcerted by this reception. He had just entered, wearing

an embroidered court uniform, knee breeches, and shoes, and had

stars on his breast and a serene expression on his flat face. He spoke

in that refined French in which our grandfathers not only spoke but

thought, and with the gentle, patronizing intonation natural to a

man of importance who had grown old in society and at court. He went

up to Anna Pavlovna, kissed her hand, presenting to her his bald,

scented, and shining head, and complacently seated himself on the

sofa.

 

"First of all, dear friend, tell me how you are. Set your friend's

mind at rest," said he without altering his tone, beneath the

politeness and affected sympathy of which indifference and even

irony could be discerned.

 

"Can one be well while suffering morally? Can one be calm in times

like these if one has any feeling?" said Anna Pavlovna. "You are

staying the whole evening, I hope?"

 

"And the fete at the English ambassador's? Today is Wednesday. I

must put in an appearance there," said the prince. "My daughter is

coming for me to take me there."

 

"I thought today's fete had been canceled. I confess all these

festivities and fireworks are becoming wearisome."

 

"If they had known that you wished it, the entertainment would

have been put off," said the prince, who, like a wound-up clock, by

force of habit said things he did not even wish to be believed.

 

"Don't tease! Well, and what has been decided about Novosiltsev's

dispatch? You know everything."

 

"What can one say about it?" replied the prince in a cold,

listless tone. "What has been decided? They have decided that

Buonaparte has burnt his boats, and I believe that we are ready to

burn ours."

 

Prince Vasili always spoke languidly, like an actor repeating a

stale part. Anna Pavlovna Scherer on the contrary, despite her forty

years, overflowed with animation and impulsiveness. To be an

enthusiast had become her social vocation and, sometimes even when she

did not feel like it, she became enthusiastic in order not to

disappoint the expectations of those who knew her. The subdued smile

which, though it did not suit her faded features, always played

round her lips expressed, as in a spoiled child, a continual

consciousness of her charming defect, which she neither wished, nor

could, nor considered it necessary, to correct.

 

In the midst of a conversation on political matters Anna Pavlovna

burst out:

 

"Oh, don't speak to me of Austria. Perhaps I don't understand

things, but Austria never has wished, and does not wish, for war.

She is betraying us! Russia alone must save Europe. Our gracious

sovereign recognizes his high vocation and will be true to it. That is

the one thing I have faith in! Our good and wonderful sovereign has to

perform the noblest role on earth, and he is so virtuous and noble

that God will not forsake him. He will fulfill his vocation and

crush the hydra of revolution, which has become more terrible than

ever in the person of this murderer and villain! We alone must

avenge the blood of the just one.... Whom, I ask you, can we rely

on?... England with her commercial spirit will not and cannot

understand the Emperor Alexander's loftiness of soul. She has

refused to evacuate Malta. She wanted to find, and still seeks, some

secret motive in our actions. What answer did Novosiltsev get? None.

The English have not understood and cannot understand the

self-abnegation of our Emperor who wants nothing for himself, but only

desires the good of mankind. And what have they promised? Nothing! And

what little they have promised they will not perform! Prussia has

always declared that Buonaparte is invincible, and that all Europe

is powerless before him.... And I don't believe a word that Hardenburg

says, or Haugwitz either. This famous Prussian neutrality is just a

trap. I have faith only in God and the lofty destiny of our adored

monarch. He will save Europe!"

 

She suddenly paused, smiling at her own impetuosity.

 

"I think," said the prince with a smile, "that if you had been

sent instead of our dear Wintzingerode you would have captured the

King of Prussia's consent by assault. You are so eloquent. Will you

give me a cup of tea?"

 

"In a moment. A propos," she added, becoming calm again, "I am

expecting two very interesting men tonight, le Vicomte de Mortemart,

who is connected with the Montmorencys through the Rohans, one of

the best French families. He is one of the genuine emigres, the good

ones. And also the Abbe Morio. Do you know that profound thinker? He

has been received by the Emperor. Had you heard?"

 

"I shall be delighted to meet them," said the prince. "But tell me,"

he added with studied carelessness as if it had only just occurred

to him, though the question he was about to ask was the chief motive

of his visit, "is it true that the Dowager Empress wants Baron Funke

to be appointed first secretary at Vienna? The baron by all accounts

is a poor creature."

 

Prince Vasili wished to obtain this post for his son, but others

were trying through the Dowager Empress Marya Fedorovna to secure it

for the baron.

 

Anna Pavlovna almost closed her eyes to indicate that neither she

nor anyone else had a right to criticize what the Empress desired or

was pleased with.

 

"Baron Funke has been recommended to the Dowager Empress by her

sister," was all she said, in a dry and mournful tone.

 

As she named the Empress, Anna Pavlovna's face suddenly assumed an

expression of profound and sincere devotion and respect mingled with

sadness, and this occurred every time she mentioned her illustrious

patroness. She added that Her Majesty had deigned to show Baron

Funke beaucoup d'estime, and again her face clouded over with sadness.

 

The prince was silent and looked indifferent. But, with the

womanly and courtierlike quickness and tact habitual to her, Anna

Pavlovna wished both to rebuke him (for daring to speak he had done of

a man recommended to the Empress) and at the same time to console him,

so she said:

 

"Now about your family. Do you know that since your daughter came

out everyone has been enraptured by her? They say she is amazingly

beautiful."

 

The prince bowed to signify his respect and gratitude.

 

"I often think," she continued after a short pause, drawing nearer

to the prince and smiling amiably at him as if to show that

political and social topics were ended and the time had come for

intimate conversation- "I often think how unfairly sometimes the

joys of life are distributed. Why has fate given you two such splendid

children? I don't speak of Anatole, your youngest. I don't like

him," she added in a tone admitting of no rejoinder and raising her

eyebrows. "Two such charming children. And really you appreciate

them less than anyone, and so you don't deserve to have them."

 

And she smiled her ecstatic smile.

 

"I can't help it," said the prince. "Lavater would have said I

lack the bump of paternity."

 

"Don't joke; I mean to have a serious talk with you. Do you know I

am dissatisfied with your younger son? Between ourselves" (and her

face assumed its melancholy expression), "he was mentioned at Her

Majesty's and you were pitied...."

 

The prince answered nothing, but she looked at him significantly,

awaiting a reply. He frowned.

 

"What would you have me do?" he said at last. "You know I did all

a father could for their education, and they have both turned out

fools. Hippolyte is at least a quiet fool, but Anatole is an active

one. That is the only difference between them." He said this smiling

in a way more natural and animated than usual, so that the wrinkles

round his mouth very clearly revealed something unexpectedly coarse

and unpleasant.

 

"And why are children born to such men as you? If you were not a

father there would be nothing I could reproach you with," said Anna

Pavlovna, looking up pensively.

 

"I am your faithful slave and to you alone I can confess that my

children are the bane of my life. It is the cross I have to bear. That

is how I explain it to myself. It can't be helped!"

 

He said no more, but expressed his resignation to cruel fate by a

gesture. Anna Pavlovna meditated.

 

"Have you never thought of marrying your prodigal son Anatole?"

she asked. "They say old maids have a mania for matchmaking, and

though I don't feel that weakness in myself as yet,I know a little

person who is very unhappy with her father. She is a relation of

yours, Princess Mary Bolkonskaya."

 

Prince Vasili did not reply, though, with the quickness of memory

and perception befitting a man of the world, he indicated by a

movement of the head that he was considering this information.

 

"Do you know," he said at last, evidently unable to check the sad

current of his thoughts, "that Anatole is costing me forty thousand

rubles a year? And," he went on after a pause, "what will it be in

five years, if he goes on like this?" Presently he added: "That's what

we fathers have to put up with.... Is this princess of yours rich?"

 

"Her father is very rich and stingy. He lives in the country. He

is the well-known Prince Bolkonski who had to retire from the army

under the late Emperor, and was nicknamed 'the King of Prussia.' He is

very clever but eccentric, and a bore. The poor girl is very

unhappy. She has a brother; I think you know him, he married Lise

Meinen lately. He is an aide-de-camp of Kutuzov's and will be here

tonight."

 

...I'll finish later

[tazinib1]

Dude!

You cannot introduce reality into a Tailgate thread. Bad things happen.

F'n noob.

 

 

 

I liked your old icon better. That one is kinda ghey.

[Square]

As you wish...

I heard if you say detlef 3 times into a mirror you get a pm with a link to his personal blog.

[CowboyGal2011]

Maybe instead of whining about me observing the truth you ladies should figure out how to handle it.

 

I'm confused? A jew bashing, American hating terrible soldier, who happens to be your hero idol, spews nonsense that no one else besides a looney fringe supports, and you feel you have the truth on your side?

 

Young man, I think it's time you accept reality, embrace maturity, and become a person who supports self reliance and freedom. There was once a peon named lulu who roamed the innernets, and you lad, have become her.

[SEC=UGA]

When that is your opening permise, you should consider my reply generous.

 

We prefer happy pickles.

 

[Ursa Majoris]

FWIW, from the opinion piece I posted, I found this part to be the most telling:

 

I've learned that 9/11 was used against us. We gladly handed over our civil liberties in the name of security. And recently our Congress quietly reapproved the unconstitutional Patriot Act.

 

Do you recall the deafening drumbeat of the war machine? Displaying a flag meant you were a good citizen, and any dissent about going to war meant you were unpatriotic.

 

I've learned that many communities are far too insulated from war's hardship, while others are consumed by it. Many of those I served with in the Army couldn't get another job.

 

A few were 9/11 patriots, and others were selfless warriors. But wouldn't a two-year mandatory service or a perpetual draft allocate our national sacrifice better? Maybe then coverage moves to the front page.

 

The following applies to the Iraq War.

 

If we're going to go to war, we absolutely have to spread the load. For the vast majority, there was no effect whatsoever and life went on entirely as it always had done. Every so often, a politician or other pompous toerag would stand on it's hind legs and parrot something about "war time" or "we are at war" as part of a blathering speech but for the most part "we" really weren't. Relegated to the inside pages, the load was borne by far too few. The already low attention span of the great American public was diverted away while the war ground on and on endlessly with the same guys and girls rotating in and out of it far too often, often to their complete ruin.

 

Why weren't taxes raised? That at least would have shared monetary sacrifice, as well as paying for the thing as it went. There were no checkpoints on the roads, no blackouts, no rationing, nothing to even inconvenience anyone. You'd hardly know it was going on.

 

No, the only people who truly shared in the load were the ones actually there and their families at home. Ever manure yourself every time an unknown car pulls up outside your house? We have.

 

War is a last resort to be used only in extremis. Nothing about the Iraq situation required war beyond the containment already in place and those few brave souls who had enough balls to stand up against it while the unthinking called them traitors should be commended.

[CowboyGal2011]

War is a last resort to be used only in extremis. Nothing about the Iraq situation required war beyond the containment already in place

 

If a nations stated goal is the destruction of a neighbor, should they be allowed to do so?

[caddyman]

I'm confused? A jew bashing, American hating terrible soldier, who happens to be your hero idol, spews nonsense that no one else besides a looney fringe supports, and you feel you have the truth on your side?

 

Young man, I think it's time you accept reality, embrace maturity, and become a person who supports self reliance and freedom. There was once a peon named lulu who roamed the innernets, and you lad, have become her.

Yep...comical...that is this losers example of the right mistreating our soldiers when they come home? WOW. He is worse than I could ever imagine. Dude needs a time out.

[bushwacked]

I'm confused

 

You don't say.

[SayItAintSoJoe]

FWIW, from the opinion piece I posted, I found this part to be the most telling:

 

 

 

The following applies to the Iraq War.

 

If we're going to go to war, we absolutely have to spread the load. For the vast majority, there was no effect whatsoever and life went on entirely as it always had done. Every so often, a politician or other pompous toerag would stand on it's hind legs and parrot something about "war time" or "we are at war" as part of a blathering speech but for the most part "we" really weren't. Relegated to the inside pages, the load was borne by far too few. The already low attention span of the great American public was diverted away while the war ground on and on endlessly with the same guys and girls rotating in and out of it far too often, often to their complete ruin.

 

Why weren't taxes raised? That at least would have shared monetary sacrifice, as well as paying for the thing as it went. There were no checkpoints on the roads, no blackouts, no rationing, nothing to even inconvenience anyone. You'd hardly know it was going on.

 

No, the only people who truly shared in the load were the ones actually there and their families at home. Ever manure yourself every time an unknown car pulls up outside your house? We have.

 

War is a last resort to be used only in extremis. Nothing about the Iraq situation required war beyond the containment already in place and those few brave souls who had enough balls to stand up against it while the unthinking called them traitors should be commended.

 

Sad, but true. People's lives turned upside down by fighting this war and we've got people back home bitching about how long it takes to get through airport security.

[Hugh 0ne]

So we need detlef to post about it?

 

[bushwacked]

[moneymakers]

It is what it is and it was what it was- just a small taste of what is to come

 

Atrocity In Fallujah

 

Robert Fisk

 

April 01, 2004 "The Independent" -- "The bodies were hanging upside down on each side of the bridge. They had no hands, no feet, one had no head." My old Iraqi friend had been driving into Fallujah just after the massacre, the stoning, the burning. He was shaking as he told me what he saw. "They were hanging upside down above the highway, on the old railway bridge which bridge, now a road bridge. The people of Fallujah were just driving over the bridge as if nothing was happening, right past the bodies." The bridge is on the west side of the Sunni Muslim city, across the Euphrates river, and the corpses had been tied to the girders about six feet above the road. "When we left, there were no helicopters, no police, no soldiers, it all seemed quite normal; except for the bodies. They were burnt brown. I couldn't tell if they were men or women."

 

 

In fact, there were four Western men slaughtered in Fallujah yesterday - all contractors for the Americans, some apparently armed - and they had been dragged from their cars, mutilated, stoned, burnt, beaten with iron pipes. One of them was decapitated, then dragged through the streets behind a car. What the Anglo-American occupation power later called a "particularly brutal" crime - a somewhat restrained comment in the face of such barbarity - was all too real on the videotapes filmed by Iraqi camera crews in Fallujah but which were not shown on Western television stations last night.

 

Another man gave a chilling description of how the men were dragged from their car, begging for their lives. "They had gasoline splashed on them and were set alight," he said.

 

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5974.htm

 

http://www.aztlan.net/torched_hung.htm

[tazinib1]

The point of this thread should be the 4K+ men and women we lost serving our country. Shame on all of you for plugging your political views in this thread. Disgusting.

[CowboyGal2011]

 

If your spokesperson is patty murray, well then I am confident the correct decision was made. Want to post her bio big boy?

[bushwacked]

Shame on all of you for plugging your political views in this thread. Disgusting.

 

 

So when do we prosecute Bush Jr???????

 

Disgusting.

[WaterMan]

If a nations stated goal is the destruction of a neighbor, should they be allowed to do so?

 

Well we fund Israel to destroy their neighbors.

[WaterMan]

The point of this thread should be the 4K+ men and women we lost serving our country. Shame on all of you for plugging your political views in this thread. Disgusting.

 

They never should have lost their lives. What did Saddam do to us? Not sell us oil cheap enough?