BeeR Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 That is silly. Only 6 WR's scored more than Gates last year in a PPR standard performance league. But, feel free to take 3rd tier WR's ahead ahead of him in a must start TE league. A TE getting 10+ TDs and over 1000 yds 3 years in a row with a new QB? Don't hold your breath. But feel free to fry a pick on him while passing up upper-level depth at RB or WR that you'll be wishing so bad you had during the year....(PS many of us still play non PPR) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 I just tested picking Gates in the 3rd round in an Antsports 10-team mock. So far my team looks like this: 1.02 - Tomlinson 2.09 - Chad Johnson 3.02 - Gates 4.09 - Tom Brady 5.02 - D. Driver 6.09 - T. Bell Right now my #2 RB situation is a little scary, but that isn't necessarily because I picked Gates in Rd 3. I could have chosen a RB instead of Johnson, Brady, or Driver. However, out of all the mocks I have done so far, this might be the team I like best. Facing LT, Johnson, Gates, and Brady every week wouldn't be very fun. taking a RB instead of Brady would have been a better bet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 (edited) Of course assuming things stay more or less the same way... ...which they generally do not. Saying "look at how it happened last year" has limited value, esp considering the various changes that a team makes, diff schedule, etc etc. PS I've considered bidding high enough for Gates in our auction league, but IMO the price is likely just too high. Good thread tho. Edited August 10, 2006 by BeeR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 You're right. In a 14-team league I wouldn't expect Gates to be available in the 3rd round. However, MFL's ADP tool has him going at 24 right now, meaning he will (on average) be available late 2nd to early 3rd in 12-team leagues and early to mid 3rd in 10-team leagues. i have never been in a 10 team league and never will be. they are for rookies but we all have to start some where i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49erAddict-08 Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 i have never been in a 10 team league and never will be. they are for rookies but we all have to start some where i guess It's actually a 20-team league. 2 conferences of 10 teams (so each draft has 10 teams). I used to be in a 12-team league but soon found out that they are for rookies but we all have to start some where I guess (Sorry, I really like 12-team leagues as well and play in several, but I just had to say it after your post. Does it make you feel big when you make fun of smaller leagues? Or are you just trying to compensate for lack of size elsewhere?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 i have never been in a 10 team league and never will be. they are for rookies but we all have to start some where i guess so says the noob.... 12 team leagues are ideal....14 is if you have too many participants and 10 is if you're a little short... 8 team leagues are for chumps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Facing LT, Johnson, Gates, and Brady every week wouldn't be very fun. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Agree. I wouldn't touch him till the 4th ie I won't own him. There is way too much 2d/3d tier quality avail this year to take Gates and "cheat" yourself of a high-quality WR or RB. Gates is a STEAL in the 3rd round. that is where he is going in almost every draft. as I said, statistically he is more important than any WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 last year I said I would let any sucker take Gates before the 5th and I will wait for my TE.... it wasn't that I didn't think he could do it again....I was just never one of those people who valued TE like that.... I never even had Gonzo....some people would argue to take him in the 3rd or even earlier and I thought it was crazy... but I consider Gates already better than Gonzo has ever been...and would take him no earlier than 2.11 in a 12 team league, which is essentially interchangeable with 3.1....because I just won't take him any earlier in favor of a RB... if CTaylor had an easier schedule...I would consider him as a #2 and be fine with it for the season....but I am going to need another RB... I expect KJ to slip to me as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 It's actually a 20-team league. 2 conferences of 10 teams (so each draft has 10 teams). I used to be in a 12-team league but soon found out that they are for rookies but we all have to start some where I guess (Sorry, I really like 12-team leagues as well and play in several, but I just had to say it after your post. Does it make you feel big when you make fun of smaller leagues? Or are you just trying to compensate for lack of size elsewhere?) no it doesn't make me feel big and i was just fooling around. but you kept referring to 10 team leagues when saying Gates would fall to the 3rd round and i have never played in a 12 team league either ( not sinse the on line leagues started at leaste ) 14 is the ideal for dynasty and i don't play in redrafts any longer as long as it is FF it's all good though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 no it doesn't make me feel big and i was just fooling around. but you kept referring to 10 team leagues when saying Gates would fall to the 3rd round and i have never played in a 12 team league either ( not sinse the on line leagues started at leaste ) 14 is the ideal for dynasty and i don't play in redrafts any longer as long as it is FF it's all good though 14 team leagues are perfect for dynasty or keeper...you get some vets and some rookies who may not be effective until the following season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
49erAddict-08 Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 14 is the ideal for dynasty and i don't play in redrafts any longer as long as it is FF it's all good though Sorry, this may be a little off topic, but how do you like 14-team leagues? One league I am in is thinking of expanding to 14 and I have never played in one before. What are your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Sorry, this may be a little off topic, but how do you like 14-team leagues? One league I am in is thinking of expanding to 14 and I have never played in one before. What are your thoughts. as i said i believe 14 teams are perfect for dyansty and even better if you have a Taxi squad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joethin Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 if CTaylor had an easier schedule...I would consider him as a #2 and be fine with it for the season....but I am going to need another RB... I expect KJ to slip to me as well... Exactly what I have been pondering since reading this thread! 12 team PPR If I can have one of the big 3 in the 1st round, coming around the 2nd round I have to look at Tier 1 WR vs Tier 2 RB... Chester looks mighty tempting at that second slot if Tier 1 WR are gone which makes Gates great going around in the 3rd. That will force me for Tier 2-3 WR in the 5th & 6th unless K Jones is sitting there... wouldn't that be sweet! It's a stretch but a WR corps of Mason, Housh, Rod Smith/Javon Walker, Andre Johnson... or the such doesn't look that bad considering most people will go after last years big names like Santana Moss, Chris Chambers, Plaxico, etc after the 1st tier WR is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavinRJohnson Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Gates is a STEAL in the 3rd round. that is where he is going in almost every draft. as I said, statistically he is more important than any WR. Excellent discussion guys. But, in the 3rd Round, Gates is NOT a steal. That's still a huge price to pay for a TE. Anything that costs that much can't be stolen. Also, this whole thread and no one mentions Brees is gone and a rook QB is coming in? The TEs are so deep this year, the price for Gates is so high, and throw in the rookie QB factor, I'm passing on him in Round 3. There has to be a better value pick available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Exactly what I have been pondering since reading this thread! 12 team PPR If I can have one of the big 3 in the 1st round, coming around the 2nd round I have to look at Tier 1 WR vs Tier 2 RB... Chester looks mighty tempting at that second slot if Tier 1 WR are gone which makes Gates great going around in the 3rd. That will force me for Tier 2-3 WR in the 5th & 6th unless K Jones is sitting there... wouldn't that be sweet! It's a stretch but a WR corps of Mason, Housh, Rod Smith/Javon Walker, Andre Johnson... or the such doesn't look that bad considering most people will go after last years big names like Santana Moss, Chris Chambers, Plaxico, etc after the 1st tier WR is gone. exactly... if I have Mason, Horn and Walker as my 3 WR's with Gates....that's a bang-up job IMO.....throw delhomme in there definately... I think Mason will be a top 10 WR this year when it's all said and done... and in my local...SMoss will go too early as will Chambers....KJ and CTaylor COULD be had in rounds 5 and 6 if I decided to get greedy.....but I don't know if I could afford this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Excellent discussion guys. But, in the 3rd Round, Gates is NOT a steal. That's still a huge price to pay for a TE. Anything that costs that much can't be stolen. Also, this whole thread and no one mentions Brees is gone and a rook QB is coming in? The TEs are so deep this year, the price for Gates is so high, and throw in the rookie QB factor, I'm passing on him in Round 3. There has to be a better value pick available. I won't even consider Rivers a rookie because he knows the system real well right now... if he was struggling in TC, that would be a different story... and I feel like I've said this about 10 times too many...but Gates made Brees....not the other way around...Brees sucked before Gates came.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The TEs are so deep this year, the price for Gates is so high, and throw in the rookie QB factor, I'm passing on him in Round 3. There has to be a better value pick available. The new QB has been mentioned numerous times and the last two years stats show Gates is a value in Round 3. You and many others are basing your opinion on speculation that Gates drops off this year, many people (myself included) don't see it that way. Drew Brees basically improved from a crappy to mediocre/efficient QB in the last few years. Philip Rivers is skilled and San Diego apparently felt comfortable enough about his ability to produce NOW that they let Brees go. It's not like San Diego is re-building, they are a playoff caliber team. Couple that with the fact that Gates is an absolute stud and a likely safety net for an inexperienced but talented QB, I consider him a safe value and great pick in the 3rd round. Oh yea....contrary to popular belief, this is Philip Rivers third year in the league after watching/learning the past two seasons (another reason to expect a decent performance this year), he is not a rookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Oh yea....contrary to popular belief, this is Philip Rivers third year in the league after watching/learning the past two seasons (another reason to expect a decent performance this year), he is not a rookie. exactly....a rookie to me is someone who is still learning the offense and can't find the bathroom at halftime... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavinRJohnson Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Oh yea....contrary to popular belief, this is Philip Rivers third year in the league after watching/learning the past two seasons (another reason to expect a decent performance this year), he is not a rookie. OK, consider Steve McNair. Took over in 1997 after sitting in 95 and 96, 14 TDs, 13 INTs. Frank Wycheck, a top tier fantasy TE, put up 63 receptions and 4 TDs. Tom Brady sat one year and then thew 18 TD/12 INT in his first season as starter. His TE caught 4 TDs. Eli Manning sat one year and then threw 24/17. Shockey caught 7 TDs. Rivers has thrown 17 passes in the NFL. He's in for some serious growing pains, rookie or not. If you want a piece of that passing game for the price of a 3rd round pick, go for it. Even in the best case scenario, Rivers hits his stide in Week 4 or 5 and maybe duplicates the Eli/Shockey production from last year. Give me a RB2 or a WR1 in Round 3 with fewer question marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 OK, consider Steve McNair. Took over in 1997 after sitting in 95 and 96, 14 TDs, 13 INTs. Frank Wycheck, a top tier fantasy TE, put up 63 receptions and 4 TDs. Tom Brady sat one year and then thew 18 TD/12 INT in his first season as starter. His TE caught 4 TDs. Eli Manning sat one year and then threw 24/17. Shockey caught 7 TDs. Rivers has thrown 17 passes in the NFL. He's in for some serious growing pains, rookie or not. If you want a piece of that passing game for the price of a 3rd round pick, go for it. Even in the best case scenario, Rivers hits his stide in Week 4 or 5 and maybe duplicates the Eli/Shockey production from last year. Give me a RB2 or a WR1 in Round 3 with fewer question marks. you can't compare any of them to Gates or Rivers... and none of those teams had Tomlinson on their team... and Gates will likely outproduce the WR you would draft there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 (edited) OK, consider Steve McNair. Took over in 1997 after sitting in 95 and 96, 14 TDs, 13 INTs. Frank Wycheck, a top tier fantasy TE, put up 63 receptions and 4 TDs. Tom Brady sat one year and then thew 18 TD/12 INT in his first season as starter. His TE caught 4 TDs. Eli Manning sat one year and then threw 24/17. Shockey caught 7 TDs. Rivers has thrown 17 passes in the NFL. He's in for some serious growing pains, rookie or not. If you want a piece of that passing game for the price of a 3rd round pick, go for it. Even in the best case scenario, Rivers hits his stide in Week 4 or 5 and maybe duplicates the Eli/Shockey production from last year. Give me a RB2 or a WR1 in Round 3 with fewer question marks. Frank Wycheck and the starting NE TE from 5 years ago are not equal to Antonio Gates, nor is Shockey IMO. I don't think Gates experiences a significant drop in production this year. Time will tell. Edited August 10, 2006 by bushwacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerz Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 The new QB has been mentioned numerous times and the last two years stats show Gates is a value in Round 3. You and many others are basing your opinion on speculation that Gates drops off this year, many people (myself included) don't see it that way. Drew Brees basically improved from a crappy to mediocre/efficient QB in the last few years. Philip Rivers is skilled and San Diego apparently felt comfortable enough about his ability to produce NOW that they let Brees go. It's not like San Diego is re-building, they are a playoff caliber team. Couple that with the fact that Gates is an absolute stud and a likely safety net for an inexperienced but talented QB, I consider him a safe value and great pick in the 3rd round. Oh yea....contrary to popular belief, this is Philip Rivers third year in the league after watching/learning the past two seasons (another reason to expect a decent performance this year), he is not a rookie. My thoughts exactly, but, then again, I'm a Chargers homer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElevensBoys Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 It all depends on how your league scores. In our league, a TE gets 6pts for a TD, points for yardage (1pt 30 yards, 3pts 50yds and 1pt for every 25yds after that) and points for catches (1pt for 3-5 catches, 3pts for 6 or more). With that in mind, Gates is a GOD in our league! I drafted him as a rookie and he has paid dividends every week! Compare him to the top tier WR's and he is a ;ate 3rd round or early 4th Round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustOfBeenDrunk Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 It all depends on how your league scores. In our league, a TE gets 6pts for a TD, points for yardage (1pt 30 yards, 3pts 50yds and 1pt for every 25yds after that) and points for catches (1pt for 3-5 catches, 3pts for 6 or more). With that in mind, Gates is a GOD in our league! I drafted him as a rookie and he has paid dividends every week! Compare him to the top tier WR's and he is a ;ate 3rd round or early 4th Round pick. early 4th i will make a sig bet with whom ever wants it that Gates never makes it to the 4th round in any type a TE required league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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