Wanna see how a franchise goes downhill? Look at the 2004 GB draft...

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Absolutely and GM Sherman's answer to 6'4" Moss was a trade up for Punter BJ Sander.

 

FIXED

[Fatman]

Didn't the packers draft new CB's because of the spanking they took from the Culpepper to Moss days prior to 2004?

 

 

Sherman was also trying to make a point to Mike McKenzie, who was still on the team at that time.

[Fatman]

Not only that but Carroll constantly was penalized for interrference. He never learned to keep his hands off of WR's and still cover. He had speed but never used it well.

 

He didn't seem smart enough to figure out how to play as a pro. I'm glad he and Roman are gone. Time to work for the future. I really can't see anyone being much worse.

 

 

 

Shoulda taken Chris Gamble! I've always said it and will stick by that. We had a bunch of 6'4"+ WRs in the NFC North then and took a 5'9" midget, low Wonderlic idiot.

 

I hope our first two picks are RB and CB. Michael Bush, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch would help the O and an Antoine Cason, Darrelle Revis, Leon Hall, or Daymeion Hughes would shore up CB.

 

The front 7 is ok, the S are young, OL should develop, decent WR's (need another vet and more talent though) and if Favre comes back, we're solid at QB.

 

 

 

Carroll never learned to trust his speed...he was always hand checking down the field and was always drawing penalites. Hell, they even made him practice in boxing gloves so he couldn't grab people.

 

In hindsight, Gamble would've been the better pick. I've read, however, that the Panthes actually had Carroll rate higher and were disappointed when he went to the Packers a few picks ahead of them.

[loaf]

http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2006/10/03/1/

 

The Green Bay Packers on Tuesday released cornerback Ahmad Carroll. Executive Vice President, General Manager and Director of Football Operations Ted Thompson made the announcement.

 

Carroll, the Packers' first-round selection in the 2004 NFL Draft, played 34 games in three seasons, starting 28 contests. He had 104 tackles (95 solo), three interceptions, three sacks, 26 passes defensed, one forced fumble and one fumble recovery.

 

Let's see...the draft of only two years ago now looks like:

 

1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB CUT

3 70 Joey Thomas CB CUT

3 72 Donnell Washington DT CUT

3 87 B.J. Sander P CUT

6 179 Corey Williams DT In the DT rotation

7 251 Scott Wells G Starting and playing OK

 

Having your 2004 draft net one starter at center and a role player in the interior line is an easy way to kill the team...thanks Sherm!

Oh yeah...

 

 

welcome to the Butch Davis School For Drafting!

[Fatman]

Hardly. Carroll was the problem and not the whole secondary.

 

 

Eh, no one has played well in the secondary all season. Harris isn't the same, maybe because he's pissed about Woodson's contract. Woodson has been slow all year, although he played well for a half on Monday. Collins has really struggled in coverage, something that he was prasied very highly for last year. Manuel sucks. He's out of position all of the time. I don't care if he did score a TD against Detroit.

 

Other than that, secondary looks good.

[CD6405]

Want to see how a franchise makes there way back?

AJ Hawk, Greg Jennings, and the rookie lineman are playing great right now. How many sacks have they given up the past 3 weeks? Fear not, Ted Thompson is a draft guru.

As far as Carroll goes, I think it was his attitude and inabilty to take blame for his mistakes and not learning from them that got him canned. I think this also shows us that Will Blackmon is getting real close to being healthy.

 

 

"I know what I'm accountable for and I know what I did wrong," Carroll said. "I gave up the big plays. You look at the film, it's not one person did this, one person did that. I'm that person. I gave up the explosive gains, I gave up the big plays, I gave up the touchdown."

[Fatman]

hey...maybe rhode islands own will blackmon gets a shot at contributing now

 

 

Doesn't sound like it will be any time soon...

 

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/ind...=101551&ntpid=1

 

Packers: Carroll sent packing

JASON WILDE

608-252-6176

jwilde@madison.com

GREEN BAY - The Green Bay Packers finally ran out of patience with Ahmad Carroll.

 

Less than 24 hours after what was apparently a final-straw performance by the immature and inconsistent cornerback, the team placed their 2004 first-round draft pick on waivers Tuesday afternoon. The decision ended a perplexing 34-game career in Green Bay during which the team waited and waited for Carroll to realize his potential.

 

He never did, and his up-and-down game in Monday night's 31-9 loss at Philadelphia sealed his fate. General manager Ted Thompson, coach Mike McCarthy and the personnel and coaching staffs discussed the decision after the team's charter flight returned to Green Bay at 3 a.m., and Carroll was told of his release later in the day.

 

"Meeting with Ted and the personnel department and the coaches, we felt it was time to go in another direction," McCarthy said. "We wish Ahmad luck. On a personal level, it may be in his best interest for him to move on to another NFL venue."

 

Said Thompson, when reached on the road scouting Tuesday evening: "I don't think we make emotional decisions around here. We try very hard not to do that. We just felt it was time to let some of the other guys have a chance."

 

McCarthy said rookie Jarrett Bush, claimed off waivers from Carolina after the final preseason cuts, and practice- squad cornerback Patrick Dendy will compete for Carroll's job as the nickel corner. Rookie fourth-round pick Will Blackmon, who missed all of training camp recovering from a broken foot, figures to join the competition if he ever gets healthy.

 

Asked if Carroll's release sent a message to the rest of the team about his oft-discussed theme of accountability, McCarthy replied, "I think it's important that we all stay on the same page as to what is expected. Whether it's a message or however they want to perceive it, we have a vision of what this football team needs to look like, how they prepare and how they play. We're keeping our eye on the target as we move forward to make sure it looks that way."

 

Attempts to reach Carroll on Tuesday evening were unsuccessful. His cell- phone voicemail box was full, and he did not respond to a text message or a message left with a friend. But after the game Monday night, he took the blame for the loss, in which the Packers defense allowed 13 explosive plays and turned a 9-7 halftime lead into a blowout loss.

 

"I admit I (expletive) up and cost us the game," Carroll said. "I know what I'm accountable for and I know what I did wrong. I gave up the big plays. You look at the film, it's not one person did this, one person did that. I'm that person. I gave up the explosive gains, I gave up the big plays, I gave up the touchdown. That swung the momentum for the whole game."

 

Carroll's showing against the Eagles was an appropriate final performance for him. It was a microcosm of his time with the Packers after former coach and GM Mike Sherman drafted him 25th overall out of Arkansas as an inexperienced junior in 2004 and he was forced into the starting lineup by the trade of malcontent Mike McKenzie.

 

In the first half Monday night, Carroll was almost perfect. He broke up three passes, didn't allow a completion and even registered his third career sack with a terrific play on Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb.

 

But it all fell apart in the second half. Wide receiver Greg Lewis burned him deep down the right sideline for a 45- yard touchdown that gave the Eagles a 17-9 lead with 5 minutes, 8 seconds left in the third quarter. On the next series, Carroll was flagged for a 14-yard pass interference penalty. On the ensuing play, Lewis was left wide open for a 30- yard touchdown and a 24-9 Eagles lead.

 

In the fourth quarter, Reggie Brown beat Carroll deep for a 23-yard gain on a play that also saw Carroll get flagged for holding. That play led to the Eagles' final TD of the night, a 15-yard McNabb run.

 

Judging from McCarthy's remarks Tuesday, it was Carroll's predilection for penalties - he had nine last year to lead the defense for the second straight year, and he committed two interference penalties that were enforced this year - and inability to effectively defend the deep ball that led to his release.

 

"He struggles with the ball downfield. It's been a problem for him and people will continue to challenge him until he stops it," said McCarthy, who had not spoken to Carroll as of his late- afternoon news conference.

 

Carroll's immature personality, silly trash-talking and chest-thumping after relatively routine plays rubbed some the wrong way, but he also had moments where he flashed toughness and athleticism. Having just turned 23 in August, he may someday grow into a serviceable NFL cornerback.

 

But it won't be in Green Bay.

 

"I think he was making progress," said McCarthy, who called Carroll a "talented young man" and an "improving player" who has gotten better with his bump-and-run coverage. "He was a junior when he came out of college and I think sometimes it takes those guys a little bit longer to adjust.

 

"I just think it's time to move on, and give our young guys a chance. That's it in a nutshell."

[Chavez]

http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2006/10/03/1/

 

The Green Bay Packers on Tuesday released cornerback Ahmad Carroll. Executive Vice President, General Manager and Director of Football Operations Ted Thompson made the announcement.

 

Carroll, the Packers' first-round selection in the 2004 NFL Draft, played 34 games in three seasons, starting 28 contests. He had 104 tackles (95 solo), three interceptions, three sacks, 26 passes defensed, one forced fumble and one fumble recovery.

 

Let's see...the draft of only two years ago now looks like:

 

1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB CUT

3 70 Joey Thomas CB CUT

3 72 Donnell Washington DT CUT

3 87 B.J. Sander P CUT

6 179 Corey Williams DT In the DT rotation

7 251 Scott Wells G Starting and playing OK

 

Having your 2004 draft net one starter at center and a role player in the interior line is an easy way to kill the team...thanks Sherm!

I posted this back in January on another message board - pretty big-time indictment of Mike Sherman's drafting acumen, or lack thereof:

 

starting with the '01 draft, which was technically Ron Wolf but Sherman was heavily involved in:

 

01 - 6 picks; Jamal Reynolds was a colossal bust; Ferguson has been a nice special teams player but proved he won't pan out as a WR this year; Bhahow Jue and Torrance Marshall were disappointments; Bill Ferrario did nothing; David Martin can't stay healthy. Only Ferguson and Martin are left, only Jue saw any significant time as a starter. Did little to nothing to help the team.

 

02 - 6 picks, Sherman's best draft - moved up to draft Javon Walker, who had been on a tear for about a season and a half before his injury; Aaron Kampman in the 5th round was a terrific pick; Davenport has been productive when healthy, Nall remains on the team; Marques Anderson couldn't tackle and Mike Houghton had no impact.

 

03 - 9 picks; Brennan Curtin, Chris Johnson, DeAndrew Rubin, Carl Ford, and Steve Josue contributed NOTHING to the team. Hunter Hillenmeyer didn't help GB but sees playing time in Chicago; James Lee had minimal impact, Kenny Peterson is just a guy, and Nick Barnett is productive but nothing special. Basically two contributors out of 9 picks.

 

04 - 6 picks; Ahmad Carroll starts (and drives everyone in Wisconsin nuts); Corey Williams is in the DL rotation; Donnell Washington was inactive for all 16 games; BJ Sander...nuff said; Scott Wells may replace Flanagan and Joey Thomas was worthless. Essentially you've got 1 starter and a couple backups.

 

5 of the 12 players selected in the 3rd round or higher I'd classify as "busts" (Reynolds, Marshall, Thomas, Washington, Sander). That cupboard is bare thanks to Mike Sherman.

 

As of right now, Sherman's drafts have netted a current tally of THREE starters (Kampman, Wells, Barnett) and THREE other contributors (Ferguson, Martin, C Williams) for the '06 Packers. Hillenmeyer and J Walker were also actually pretty good picks but aren't doing Green Bay any good. You need better than 8 (and even that is generous - Ferguson is probably not playing anywhere else after GB cuts him) for 27 in the draft.

Edited October 5, 2006 by Chavez

[DaFreak]

Shoulda taken Chris Gamble! I've always said it and will stick by that. We had a bunch of 6'4"+ WRs in the NFC North then and took a 5'9" midget, low Wonderlic idiot.

 

I hope our first two picks are RB and CB. Michael Bush, Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch would help the O and an Antoine Cason, Darrelle Revis, Leon Hall, or Daymeion Hughes would shore up CB.

 

The front 7 is ok, the S are young, OL should develop, decent WR's (need another vet and more talent though) and if Favre comes back, we're solid at QB.

 

 

Super Bowl baby....

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

Know nothing about the kid, but if he has some talent I wouldn't mind the Vikings throwing him on their PS and seeing if Tomlin can make something out of him. Another Darren Sharper type steal would be pretty cool for the Vikes.

[SteelBunz]

welcome to the Butch Davis School For Drafting!

 

I got it, Loaf.

 

Did you throw stuff at the TV when he was analyzing teams on Playbook?

[Fatman]

I posted this back in January on another message board - pretty big-time indictment of Mike Sherman's drafting acumen, or lack thereof:

 

starting with the '01 draft, which was technically Ron Wolf but Sherman was heavily involved in:

 

01 - 6 picks; Jamal Reynolds was a colossal bust; Ferguson has been a nice special teams player but proved he won't pan out as a WR this year; Bhahow Jue and Torrance Marshall were disappointments; Bill Ferrario did nothing; David Martin can't stay healthy. Only Ferguson and Martin are left, only Jue saw any significant time as a starter. Did little to nothing to help the team.

 

02 - 6 picks, Sherman's best draft - moved up to draft Javon Walker, who had been on a tear for about a season and a half before his injury; Aaron Kampman in the 5th round was a terrific pick; Davenport has been productive when healthy, Nall remains on the team; Marques Anderson couldn't tackle and Mike Houghton had no impact.

 

03 - 9 picks; Brennan Curtin, Chris Johnson, DeAndrew Rubin, Carl Ford, and Steve Josue contributed NOTHING to the team. Hunter Hillenmeyer didn't help GB but sees playing time in Chicago; James Lee had minimal impact, Kenny Peterson is just a guy, and Nick Barnett is productive but nothing special. Basically two contributors out of 9 picks.

 

04 - 6 picks; Ahmad Carroll starts (and drives everyone in Wisconsin nuts); Corey Williams is in the DL rotation; Donnell Washington was inactive for all 16 games; BJ Sander...nuff said; Scott Wells may replace Flanagan and Joey Thomas was worthless. Essentially you've got 1 starter and a couple backups.

 

5 of the 12 players selected in the 3rd round or higher I'd classify as "busts" (Reynolds, Marshall, Thomas, Washington, Sander). That cupboard is bare thanks to Mike Sherman.

 

As of right now, Sherman's drafts have netted a current tally of THREE starters (Kampman, Wells, Barnett) and THREE other contributors (Ferguson, Martin, C Williams) for the '06 Packers. Hillenmeyer and J Walker were also actually pretty good picks but aren't doing Green Bay any good. You need better than 8 (and even that is generous - Ferguson is probably not playing anywhere else after GB cuts him) for 27 in the draft.

 

 

Nall's not on GB anymore...Ingle Martin is #3.

[Fatman]

Also, in regards to Ferguson, Ron Wolf always said that one of his biggest regrets leading the draft was taking Turd Ferguson over Chris Chambers.

[Chavez]

Nall's not on GB anymore...Ingle Martin is #3.

 

I posted this back in January on another message board

[Fatman]

[/b]

 

 

Good, you scared me there.

 

I'm going to get this reading thing down one of these days...