Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Moss will turn 31 next week. He might be on the downside of his carear, but the downside looks pretty good to me. He is a little over 3 years younger than Owens, who is still producing at a high level. I think we will have to agree to disagree on your statement that Moss's game is all about out running defensive backs(even though that is a big part of it, and most wrs would probably be proud of that). If we were talking about Galloway id be inclined to agree with you, but Moss also has the ability to make great adjustments to the ball as it is in the air, and has outstanding hands. Also his size allows him to be a great RZ target as evidenced by the multitude of jump balls hes won over the years. Agreed that Moss' height gives him an advantage and that he has good hands, but your comparison to T.O. is a little off base. T.O. is a MUCH better route-runner and is strong enough to man-handle any corner in the league. He's also a valuable run-blocker and is effective over the middle. A lot of the faster WRs get used as possession guys when they hit their mid-30's and lose a step (T.O., Marvin, etc.). Since Moss can't run a crisp route to save his life, I don't see him doing well in that role. As far as his future in NE goes...NE will do everything they can to keep him imo, and Id be surprised if Moss chased the potential for more money. I have to believe that at this point its more about getting a ring. He is already rich, and I dont see how a few more million bucks is going to make that much of a difference to Moss. Lots of homerism and wishful thinking in this statement. I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if Moss took a paycut to stay in NE, but this is his last chance to get that 4- or 5-year deal with that huge signing bonus. One also has to wonder if BB wants to give Randy all that guaranteed money, since he had no interest at all in Randy when the Vikings were looking to unload him back in early '05 and has a history of getting rid of WRs who want a pay raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 BB doesn't own the team so he doesn't have to. BB is GM, moran. HE makes the personnel decisions, not Bob Kraft. Yeah I forgot how he had all these injuries this year and was in so much trouble and didn't rack up TDs like a pinball machine. "Good one." Your memory is pretty short, given that he had at least two significant injuries in '04 and '06. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROYALWITCHEESE Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Yeah, I'm jealous of an injury-prone malcontent journeyman who can't stay out of trouble off the field and doesn't have a ring. Good one. Because I think that he peaked a few years ago in MIN. He's 31 and his game almost completely revolves around out-running defensive backs. In a few years, he'll slow down (like all other WRs when they hit their mid-30's) and won't have the route-running skills to compensate for his loss in speed. Couldn't "a few years" be FOUR??? TO is 34 and still pretty dang fast. Galloway is 36 and may be the fastest. Darrell Green was still fast 2 years ago at the NFLs fastest man competition--at over 40. So let's not act like he is just going to lose his speed when he hits a certain age. Fast people are fast for a LONG time. And for the record, comparing Harrison to Moss, in terms of speed is blasphemous. Harrison has never been considered "fast" by NFL standards. He WAS quick, but has lost some of that quickness. Randy was never the most nimble guy, due to his lankiness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Couldn't "a few years" be FOUR??? TO is 34 and still pretty dang fast. Galloway is 36 and may be the fastest. Darrell Green was still fast 2 years ago at the NFLs fastest man competition--at over 40. So let's not act like he is just going to lose his speed when he hits a certain age. Fast people are fast for a LONG time. Agreed that there are some exceptions, but not ALL fast people are fast for a long time. In fact, the vast majority of WRs slow down significantly when they hit their mid-30's... which is why most of them retire around then (they can't get open anymore). T.O. has slowed down significantly over the past couple of years. Same for Marvin. A lot of speed-and-nothing-else WRs (Willie Gault, James Jett, Eddie Kennison) were done in the early/mid '30s. And for the record, comparing Harrison to Moss, in terms of speed is blasphemous. Harrison has never been considered "fast" by NFL standards. He WAS quick, but has lost some of that quickness. Randy was never the most nimble guy, due to his lankiness... If you don't think that Harrison was ever "fast" by NFL standards, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. His 40 times were in the 4.38 range in his prime. Edited February 5, 2008 by Bill Swerski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROYALWITCHEESE Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Agreed that there are some exceptions, but not ALL fast people are fast for a long time. T.O. has slowed down significantly over the past couple of years. Same for Marvin. A lot of speed-and-nothing-else WRs (Willie Gault, James Jett, Eddie Kennison) were done in the early/mid '30s.If you don't think that Harrison was ever "fast" by NFL standards, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. His 40 times were in the 4.38 range in his prime. If you are talking "mid 30s", Moss is still about 3-5 years away from decline... 4.38 is not fast for a WR. It is very average. I don't believe that number either. I'm going to check on that one... -Edit- Found it. 4.38 is what he ran in 1996 as a senior, a little faster than I thought, but still average among small WRs. Just about every corner in the league would run AT LEAST a 4.38. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/31/sports/f...31harrison.html Moss, on the other hand, ran 4.25... Edited February 5, 2008 by ROYALWITCHEESE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) If you are talking "mid 30s", Moss is still about 3-5 years away from decline... 4.38 is not fast for a WR. It is very average. I don't believe that number either. I'm going to check on that one... Wrong again. Average is about 4.45-4.55. For comparison's sake, Calvin Johnson was clocked at 4.35 and Anthony Gonzalez was clocked at 4.48 at the Combine last year. Keyshawn (a possession receiver) ran about a 4.6-something in his prime. Edited February 5, 2008 by Bill Swerski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The Raiders should send Moss a bill for that 2 year vacation he took out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROYALWITCHEESE Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Wrong again. Average is about 4.45-4.55. Hmm. What is the average for WRs 6'0 and under? I bet he is at the bottom with that 4.38... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hmm. What is the average for WRs 6'0 and under? I bet he is at the bottom with that 4.38... Calvin Johnson ran a 4.35 at the Combine last year and that's what made him a high first-round pick. 4.38 is fast for any size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Big Head Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Agreed that Moss' height gives him an advantage and that he has good hands, but your comparison to T.O. is a little off base. T.O. is a MUCH better route-runner and is strong enough to man-handle any corner in the league. He's also a valuable run-blocker and is effective over the middle. A lot of the faster WRs get used as possession guys when they hit their mid-30's and lose a step (T.O., Marvin, etc.). Since Moss can't run a crisp route to save his life, I don't see him doing well in that role. Lots of homerism and wishful thinking in this statement. I wouldn't be absolutely shocked if Moss took a paycut to stay in NE, but this is his last chance to get that 4- or 5-year deal with that huge signing bonus. One also has to wonder if BB wants to give Randy all that guaranteed money, since he had no interest at all in Randy when the Vikings were looking to unload him back in early '05 and has a history of getting rid of WRs who want a pay raise. TO is a better route runne, Moss has better hands. TO is stronger, Moss is a better jumper. I dont think the comparison is off base because I still think that Moss.s attributes will serve him well when he gets to Owens age. How many wrs has BB gotten rid of who had even half the season Moss just had? PS-Its not homerism, Im a JETS fan. I hate the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Big Head Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Calvin Johnson ran a 4.35 at the Combine last year and that's what made him a high first-round pick. 4.38 is fast for any size. CJ dominating at GT and being the consensus best wr prospect in years is why he was a high 1st rd pick. The 40 time just helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Big Head Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Wrong again. Average is about 4.45-4.55. For comparison's sake, Calvin Johnson was clocked at 4.35 and Anthony Gonzalez was clocked at 4.48 at the Combine last year. Keyshawn (a possession receiver) ran about a 4.6-something in his prime. I agree with this. also 40 times are really overated imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) TO is a better route runne, Moss has better hands. TO is stronger, Moss is a better jumper. I dont think the comparison is off base because I still think that Moss.s attributes will serve him well when he gets to Owens age. If he loses any speed over the next few years, he won't have the route-running skills to separate from defenders like he does now. I'm not saying that he'll be worthless if he can only run a 4.45, but he certainly won't be the same player that he is now. How many wrs has BB gotten rid of who had even half the season Moss just had? How many Super Bowls did Moss win BB? How many SBs has BB won without somebody like Moss? PS-Its not homerism, Im a JETS fan. I hate the Pats. Fair enough. CJ dominating at GT and being the consensus best wr prospect in years is why he was a high 1st rd pick. The 40 time just helped Yep, and the Colts didn't spend a mid-first-round pick on a guy who is of average height and weighs 175 lbs soaking wet because Marvin has mediocre speed. IIRC, Marvin blew right by Aeneas Williams for a TD in the first game of his rookie year. Edited February 5, 2008 by Bill Swerski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROYALWITCHEESE Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I agree with this. also 40 times are really overated imo I would agree. I base it off the eyeball test. Harrison doesn't out-run defenders like other so-called "fast" WRs. Agree to disagree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 can you cry about this a little more? we didn't hear you the first 10 times. give it a rest. an 18-0 team just lost in the SB. Were you expecting pity? Silly Hook, I'm not crying. I have zero ties to the patriots. I just think it's funny that the same ones calling pats fans arrogant, rude and classless are the same ones that post 50 different Anti-Pats bashing topics an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 I would agree. I base it off the eyeball test. Harrison doesn't out-run defenders like other so-called "fast" WRs. Not at age 35. But he did four or five years ago, when he was setting NFL records for receptions in double coverage. If you get a chance, go back and watch the second half of the "Monday Night Miracle" IND/TB game from 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Not at age 35. But he did four or five years ago, when he was setting NFL records for receptions in double coverage. If you get a chance, go back and watch the second half of the "Monday Night Miracle" IND/TB game from 2003 . I remember that game. That game helped cap off my worse lost in my fantasy football history... I still don't like Manning and Harrison because of it... That and because an owner in my dynasty won't trade Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerMurf Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Link please? I'm not buying this one. I've seen multiple Pats games where BB and Randy were "conversating" on the sidelines. I think the loss in the SB only increases the odds of him returning in, at a minimum, a franchise tag capacity... Brady wants him back, he wants to be back, Tommy gets what Tommy wants... tell that to Deon Branch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) Silly Hook,I'm not crying. I have zero ties to the patriots. I just think it's funny that the same ones calling pats fans arrogant, rude and classless are the same ones that post 50 different Anti-Pats bashing topics an hour. You didnt wait for 50 topics ,you started right in lecturing from the first thread and havent stopped. Edited February 6, 2008 by xtra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeR Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 BB is GM, moran. HE makes the personnel decisions, not Bob Kraft.Kraft has no say-so on how big heaps of money is spent for this team? OK if you say so. Your memory is pretty short, given that he had at least two significant injuries in '04 and '06.Not "at least" but exactly 2 - 2 years he was significantly injured out of 10. I don't think that exactly puts him in the Fragile Freddy category. Your "malconent journeyman" cracks also remain weak - I agree he's not exactly Walter Payton class-wise but kept his nose clean this year......and I won't even get into the "journeyman" silliness. He isn't going anywhere. Unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) You didnt wait for 50 topics ,you started right in lecturing from the first thread and havent stopped. Dear Huddle Police Officer, Obviously I was onto something as I knew how out of hand it would get. The piling on was more so than I've ever seen here on the Huddle and it annoys the hell out of me if every post seems as if it's written by Ugly Tuna, or his equally as stupid counterpart that makes just as many pointless posts over and over. You guys are beating a dead horse. Edited February 6, 2008 by piratesownninjas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtra Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Dear Huddle Police Officer,Obviously I was onto something as I knew how out of hand it would get. The piling on was more so than I've ever seen here on the Huddle and it annoys the hell out of me if every post seems as if it's written by Ugly Tuna, or his equally as stupid counterpart that makes just as many pointless posts over and over. You guys are beating a dead horse. Reply when the hallucinations stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratesownninjas Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 (edited) Reply when the hallucinations stop. That you for your opinions and insight. This forum surely would grind to a halt without it. Why don't you go ahead and give us some more insight and post something else about the Patriots... What I really don't understand is that there are 4564509456 Patriot threads and how many Giants threads? Edited February 6, 2008 by piratesownninjas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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