Boxing: De La Hoya vs. Mosley.....

[Hitman]

I should have made a post about this HUGH event earlier, but now here I sit, with a Corona in hand, waiting for the main event of the evening: Oscar De La Hoya vs. Shane Mosley. I am the "self proclaimed boxing eggspurt" of the huddle. I am a boxing fanatic! These type of fights for me are like the Superbowl! I am an even bigger De La Hoya fan. I am picking Oscar, although those that follow boxing know that "Sugar" Shane won their first matchup, and handed Oscar the only undisputed loss of his career IMO. This should be a great fight, and it's an hour away from fight time! Let's get ready to rumble! I am surely hoping Oscar can pull this off. Him losing would be like my beloved Saints making it to the Superbowl and LOSING. coach GO OSCAR! Are there any other huddlers out there that are boxing fans? If so, please feel free to comment on predictions for this fight or any up coming fights. This one should be fight of the year for 2003 thumbs_u

[billay]

I'm a big boxing fan Hitman. This will be the first big fight of this class that I didn't watch live. Keep us posted if you can. I have lots of respect for the golden boy, but i think mosely takes this one in a unanimous decision. Oscar has made a career out of fighting all of the top fighters, he's had some great wins, and some tough losses to championship opposition. I think that tonight begins the end of the golden boy's career.

[billay]

Who called it baby? :cool:

 

Unanimous Decision

[Hitman]

angry angry angry

 

I watched this fight, and let me tell you ......

 

NO WAY DID OSCAR LOSE! Just take a look at the punch stats, Oscar won EVERY category. Mosley perhaps landed the "hardest" punches of the fight, but not enough to win rounds. This is just another "black eye" for boxing, and even a hard-core fan like me is starting to REALLY get tired of this garbage. thumbs_d

 

BTW some polls from the net this morning:

 

espn.com (who won?)

DLH 53.7% thumbs_u

SM 23.3%

too close to call 22.8%

_____________________________

maxboxing.com (who won?)

DLH 71.9% thumbs_u

SM 20.4%

draw 7.7%

 

Oscar is planning an "investigation" regarding the outcome of the fight, and rightfully he should. The judging system in boxing has to be questioned. When there is that much money and stakes on the line, how can the outcome be decided on the whims of proven MORONS?

Oscar could retire, as big F-you, but I don't think he would able to walk away after being cheated like this. We'll see.

[billay]

Hitman, like I said earlier, I didn't see the fight so I can only speculate, but.....

 

Oscar is a smart guy. He's a boxer, not a brawler, and he is always aware of what it will take to win each round, and therefore, the fight. Over his past few fights, and I would argue, the decline of his career, Oscar has adopted a strategy of getting as many punches "in the books" as he could, concentrating on winning the numbers for each round, but not really trying to beat his opponent outright. He throws tons of insignificant punches, that have no chance of hurting his opponent, but do get counted in the "landed" column. Also, after 2 minutes and 30 seconds of dancing around his opponent, he finishes the round with a flury a punches.

 

You cannont be declared the winner of a match without ever legitimately engaging your opponent. You cannot be rewarded for padding the stats of a match only. I think the judges, and boxing fans in general, have caught on to this and aren't letting him get away with it, and that is the reason for last night's decision.

 

Again, like I said, I did not see THIS fight, but have felt this was going on in several of Oscar's recent fights, including Mosely I, Trinidad and Whitaker. He did beat Vargas, a lesser fighter, in my opinion, outright.

 

Thanks for the boxing posts Hitman. I wish there had been a litle more discussion, but its always nice to meet a legitimate fan.

 

Pound for pound, Roy Jones Jr. is the best fighter of all time!!!

[Grits and Shins]

That's why it should be until the last man is standing ... no judgment calls.

[gman]

I didn't see the fight, but the controvery should be expected for every fight of significance. I used to be a huge boxing fan, but have become completely disinterested in big money fights after don King destroyed the sport. The corruption is beyond comprehension. I will occasionally watch championship fights, if they are free to view, but actually get more pleasure out of watching meaningless fights of lower ranked fighters or women's boxing. Such a shame at where this once great sport as landed. thumbs_d

[Hugh 0ne]

I saw a lot of the post fight commentary from Kellerman and whoever he was doing it with. They made the comment that the people ringside strongly favored Moseley while the TV audience favored Oscar. I've never been to a fight, but I know other sports on TV vs. live are dramatically different. Anyone got an opinion/insight?

[Hitman]

HUGH ONE:

I saw a lot of the post fight commentary from Kellerman and whoever he was doing it with. They made the comment that the people ringside strongly favored Moseley while the TV audience favored Oscar. I've never been to a fight, but I know other sports on TV vs. live are dramatically different. Anyone got an opinion/insight?

Hugh, there is a big difference from watching a fight at ringside and on TV. Of course, you have the better angles and a better view on TV. Thus, I was TOTALLY shocked by the decision. I could actually "see" De la Hoya landing the 100+ more punches that the stats indicated. I could only come to the conclusion that Mosley DID land the harder shots, and finished strong and some how the judges felt that warranted giving him the nod. BUT, nonetheless, one has to understand the rules and concept of "scoring" a fight. Oscar landed many more punches, and the whole object of scoring a round is to give it to the guy that landed more punches, as if counting each punch landed as an imaginary "point" and then the winner of the round gets it 10-9, NOT the harder punches or better looking weigh over others! Unless there is a knockdown, which makes it an automatic 10-8 round. I don't care what Kellerman thinks, or the associated press. Those that REALLY know boxing, and know how to score a fight know DLH won that fight hands down. When the scoring was called out 115-113 for all 3 judges I thought to myself "yeah, they got it right". But when they called Mosley's name as the winner, I was as shocked as I've been by any bad decision I've ever seen. thumbs_d

 

Put it this way....if I hit you 200 times, and you hit me only 100, but land a few harder shots, but neither of us are knocked down, or hurt, WHO WINS? thinking Easy. DLH was robbed. :mad: thumbs_d Even my wife and my sister could easily see that DLH won the fight. I can only imagine these dumbasses were over analyzing the fight, and forgot what the hell they were doing.

[J.J.]

Those that REALLY know boxing know that a round is not scored solely on total punches landed. It is slightly more complex than that.

 

good clean hits account for 25% of the score.

defense accounts for 25% of the score

having control of the round accounts for 25%

aggressiveness accounts for 25%.

 

You also have to remember, those judges don't have the TV in front of them telling them how many jabs and power punches that were thrown as well as landed.

 

I don't think Oscar dominated the fight, but I do think he should have won it.

[Hitman]

J.J.:

Those that REALLY know boxing know that a round is not scored solely on total punches landed. It is slightly more complex than that.  

 

good clean hits account for 25% of the score.

defense accounts for 25% of the score

having control of the round accounts for 25%

aggressiveness accounts for 25%.

 

 

Where in the HELL do you get this from? Gossip or commentators? Look at the rules of boxing before you go spewing off that garbage. I know what you are refering to, but what is your source? :confused: Continue on, and then I'll reveal my creditials to you.

[J.J.]

Pretty sure this guy knows more about the subject than you or I:

 

part1

 

part2

 

part3

 

part4

 

part5

 

part6

[Hitman]

I understand these "concepts" of scoring a fight, but my point is that when it comes down to it, whoever lands MORE punches, "cleaner" etc. as stated should be given the decision. Now on the matter of ring generalship and effective aggressiveness, one can look at it either way. If a fighter is controling the pace and dictating the action, although they are backing up, the aggressor is not necessarily winning. Although, in the later rounds, Mosley WAS the effective aggressor, and landed nice shots, as opposed to Oscar's dominance by ring generalship and controlling the pace earlier on. BUT, no way does Mosley take ALL 5 final rounds. thumbs_d He did step it up in the later rounds, but seemingly out of desperation (indicated by his father/trainer in the corner between rounds)as they felt he was behind by quite a bit in the fight. The look in Mosley's eyes was not one of confidence, but of concern during the fight and even shocked as the decision was announced. The links you provided offer one "eggspurt's" view on the principle of scoring, and a nice read actually. BUT, these priniciples are NOT applied regularly, and the bottom line is like I said before: Oscar hit Shane "cleanly" over 200 times, almost doubling Shane's 117 landed. Just because Shane landed the "harder" shots he deserves the win? NO.

 

BTW, I fought on the amateur level for about 5 yrs. My greatest accomplishment was reaching the quarter-finals of the 1997 US Amateur Championships in Colorado Springs, CO. Had I won in the quarter-finals, I'm sure I would have lost in the semis anyway, as I would have fought Rocky Juarez, 2000 U.S.Olympic Silver medalist, and currently undefeated pro. eek! I have seen THOUSANDS of fights, and this one goes down along with other bad decisions in my book.

 

BTW, thanks for the responses guys. Glad to see some other huddlers that are boxing fans too. cool_thu

[gman]

You blew my hopes Hitman. When you threatened to give your credentials I thought that you were going to admit that you were Tommy "The Hitman" Hearns.

I boxed amateur in high school for a few years but never got very far. Won a few, lost a few. I did it more just to keep in shape and to have a little fun. Until I had to fight some guys that went very far in Golden Glove championships. Getting my a$$ kicked that bad wasn't fun, and made me realize that my idea of fun had to change.

Like I said before, I used to love professional boxing but have come to truly feel sorry for the sport as a whole. The corruption is out of control. Maybe one day the sport will return to the level that it was once on.

[Hugh B Tool]

I think the fight was closer than it was judged, but for Oscar to whine and cry foul not only shows he lost the fight, but fanbase also.

 

He forgets the Sweetpea fight he stole six years ago!? I was at that fight and Sweetpea out boxed him outscored him and beat his ass in every way shape and form. Who wins?, the Golden Boy. Well the Golden Boy is now tarnished. He has won a few more like this when he shouldn't have and now he's crying bawling

 

Besides, Oscars face looked much worse for wear than Mosley and Mosley hit him with the harder shots. Oscar has no right hand!.

 

And you have to knock the p*ss out of the Champ to take the belt, unless you're Sugar Ray Leonard wink

[Hitman]

Hugh, you have good points there. Oscar did always seem to be on the winning end of close decisions in the past such as the Whitaker fight. (Although I had Oscar squeaking it out wink ) That was all up until the Trinidad fight, where he CLEARLY was ripped off. :mad: He didn't protest much at all compared to this fight, which was much closer IMO. He felt that Shane beat him in the first fight, although it was a split decision. He came up on the short end of a decision for the 3rd time (his only 3 losses BTW), 2 of which I had him winning easily. I don't blame him for expressing his frustation. He's only human. I was suprised myself at Oscar not throwing many right hands, although his left hook has always been his money punch. But, Mayweather has had him using his right much more recently. Maybe Mosley's speed was the reason he was hesitant to throw it. Also, the only visible damage I could see to Oscar was the cut above his eye caused by a Mosley headbutt. BTW, I had Leonard winning that fight with Hagler. :P But, I wouldn't have been suprised if it went to Hagler, him being the champ at the time. And in THIS case, Oscar was the champ, not Shane. Oscar's belts were taken away by a close, highly disputed decision as well. thumbs_d

[Clubfoothead]

Pernell, one of my all-time favorites. thumbs_u

[Hugh B Tool]

Clubfoothead:

Pernell, one of my all-time favorites.     thumbs_u  

Had $200 on Sweetpea as a 6-1 on shot in his first fight with Oscar in Vegas. Sitting at the fight thinking, drinks on Big Jim tonight!! Decision is announced and there were better fights in the audience than the whole undercard that night. I was robbed I tell you!. Sweetpea was one of the best counter punchers of his time thumbs_u

[Doc Hook]

HughsyourDaddy?:

I think the fight was closer than it was judged, but for Oscar to whine and cry foul not only shows he lost the fight, but fanbase also.

 

He forgets the Sweetpea fight he stole six years ago!? I was at that fight and Sweetpea out boxed him outscored him and beat his ass in every way shape and form. Who wins?, the Golden Boy. Well the Golden Boy is now tarnished. He has won a few more like this when he shouldn't have and now he's crying    bawling    

 

Besides, Oscars face looked much worse for wear than Mosley and Mosley hit him with the harder shots. Oscar has no right hand!.

 

And you have to knock the p*ss out of the Champ to take the belt, unless you're Sugar Ray Leonard   wink  

Good point about Sweet Pea. He was Robbed by gun point by Oscar and that decision. I said that Oscar won the fight the 1st time I watched it live, but later I watched it on tape. From the tape Oscar was only shotting Jabs and trying to land power shots. You can't win by only useing your jab.