Doctor tells Obama supporters: Go elsewhere for health care...

[CaP'N GRuNGe]

What percentage of doctors belongs to the AMA?

 

Yes, I know they don't represent all doctors, but they are a group of general practitioners. My point was just that an organized group of GP's came out in support of the bill and an organized group of surgeons did the opposite. Which would go against the theory of who is hurt most stated above. I'm not arguing either way here, just making the observation.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Medical_Association

 

The American Medical Association (AMA), founded in 1847 and incorporated in 1897,[2] is the largest association of physicians and medical students in the United States. While its membership has declined in recent years, the organization claims approximately 22% of U.S. physicians and medical students as members.[3

Edited April 3, 2010 by CaP'N GRuNGe

[WaterMan]

I don't see why Republican doctors are playing the victim.

[SEC=UGA]

Once again, my biggest issue with this bill is the seeming ineptitude with which the government already runs existing medical programs; the VA and Medicare. There are billions of dollars of fraud that occurs in the Medicare industry that the feds can't successfully curtail and the VA is such a mess I don't know where to start.

 

Recently in the headlines, the VA has been taken to task for not approving veterans for the coverage to which they are entitled... This is much like what will occur with the fed gove running health care, you will sit in fornt of and admin of some sort explain your problems, they'll look at a chart and say no you don't actually qualify for that test or this coverage. It's not necessarilly a death panel, but hell, if I thnk I need an MRI today I can go and get one under my current plan, it is gonna cost me a grand, but I can get it. I'm concerned that in the future I will have to go through some bureaucrat before I get clearance for such a test.

 

Then you get to the inefficiency and the unsanitary conditions that are pervasive in VA hospitals, the exhorbinant costs, and the lack of funding... I just don't want my health care to trend in that direction.

 

And btw, these cost estimates for healthcare are BS. This legislation is going to open the flood gates and healthcare costs and fraud is going to spiral out of control. There is not a government program that isn't currently plagued by these issues and I don't anticipate healthcare being any different.

[bpwallace49]

, if I thnk I need an MRI today I can go and get one under my current plan, it is gonna cost me a grand, but I can get it. I'm concerned that in the future I will have to go through some bureaucrat before I get clearance for such a test.

 

You can do the same thing with ANY health care. if you want it, but it isnt approved by the godlike benevolent deities in the insurance agencies, then you can pay for it yourself.

 

Nothing to see here . . . .

[Perchoutofwater]

Once again, my biggest issue with this bill is the seeming ineptitude with which the government already runs existing medical programs; the VA and Medicare. There are billions of dollars of fraud that occurs in the Medicare industry that the feds can't successfully curtail and the VA is such a mess I don't know where to start.

 

And btw, these cost estimates for healthcare are BS. This legislation is going to open the flood gates and healthcare costs and fraud is going to spiral out of control. There is not a government program that isn't currently plagued by these issues and I don't anticipate healthcare being any different.

 

In fact, every federal social program has cost far more than originally predicted. For instance, in 1967 the House Ways and Means Committee predicted that Medicare would cost $12 billion in 1990, a staggering $95 billion underestimate. Medicare first exceeded $12 billion in 1975. In 1965 federal actuaries figured the Medicare hospital program would end up running $9 billion in 1990. The cost was more than $66 billion.

 

In 1987 Congress estimated that the Medicaid Special Hospitals Subsidy would hit $100 million in 1992. The actual bill came to $11 billion. The initial costs of Medicare's kidney-dialysis program, passed in 1972, were more than twice projected levels.

 

The Congressional Budget Office doubled the estimated cost of Medicare's catastrophic insurance benefit — subsequently repealed — from $5.7 billion to $11.8 billion annually within the first year of its passage. The agency increased the projected cost of the skilled nursing benefit an astonishing sevenfold over roughly the same time frame, from $2.1 billion to $13.5 billion. And in 1935 a naive Congress predicted $3.5 billion in Social Security outlays in 1980, one-thirtieth the actual level of $105 billion.

 

Doesn't that just give you the warm and fuzzies.

[SEC=UGA]

You can do the same thing with ANY health care. if you want it, but it isnt approved by the godlike benevolent deities in the insurance agencies, then you can pay for it yourself.

 

Nothing to see here . . . .

 

There is a lot to see here. Layers of Bureaucracy in between me and my helath care. I do not put much stock into the ability of a government program to provide for my well being as they have repeatedly done a craptacular job of managing anything that they touch.

 

- DOD Contracts ( a mess with extremely over inflated budgets and costs. Hell it takes 6 years to let a contract on a freaking scrwwdriver )

- VA (a mess)

- Medicare ( broke and rife w. fraud )

- Medicaid ( See above )

- FDA ( Recall all the salmonela outbreaks we had last year that ecvaded their detection )

- ICE ( they do a stellar freaking job at everything )

- ATF ( There's a great and worthwhile organization )

- TSA ( they hire freaking felons for airline security )

- HUD ( Have you been to any federally funded housing communities lately? Most are administered by the state but, federal funds prop them up )

 

Further, I fail to understand how adding 30 million people to the rolls of the insured is going to decrease costs and improve delivery of services(funny how it has gone from 42 million uninsured to 30... ) Yeah, right, preventive care is cheaper than having to deal with the uninsured who forego preventive measures and end up with more severe ailments. I don't buy it. You will see an influx of people coming into primary care physicians for preventive measures, increasing the burden on both the providers and the amount of money government is going to have to spend. Someone gets a cold for which they wouldn't have originally gone to the doctor, they'll go, hey it's free.

 

Further, private healthcare costs will go up. By extending the length of time children can stay on a parent's healthcare, by removing lifetime limits, and by removing pre-existing condition exclusions insurance companies are going to have to increase premiums on those who have policies.

 

And to address yor argument, if you want to call it that, you seem to feel that insurance companies are this evil, uncaring entity that repeatedly refuses treatment to patients. I have never been denied coverage for any treatment proscribed by any of my physicians. I don't know any person who has been denied treatment proscribed by any of their physicians. I would concur that there are some heart wrenching stories out there about people wh have been denied certain treatments by their insurance company, but those are more of the exception than the rule and the people denied said treatments have full legal recourse in those instances.

 

You state that you can get an MRI through any health insurance plan or you can get one by paying for it. YOu are correct, how simple is that going to be, however when the demand for such procedures increase DRAMATICALLY, due to the increased participants that now have access to such treatments? Further, when I am in need of an MRI, there are two actors, my physician and my insurance co. My physician calls the ins. co and says, "Hey, Todd needs and MRI." The INsurance co says, "what for". Dr. Says, "we believe he has a pinched nerve in his neck from screaming hateful slogans while attending the PITA rally at a chicken farm this weekend". Ins Co., says "you really think he needs it?" Dr. Says, "yeah, we gotta make sure that it is just a pinched nerve and that he didn't crack his scapula when he fell off of the top of the chicken coop while trying to free the chickens." Ins company says, "ok".

 

The new route will be my dr. looking at a chart and sayin ok, todd, we need to contact a healthcare administrator from the bureau of MRI and muscloskeltal afflictions. He calls up and gets put on hold for 45 minutes. THey finally answer and forward him the 42 page requisition form that he must fill out and return. A week later he gets a call and is told that the form really needs to go to the bureau of requisitions for MRI and Radiological services and it will need to be resubmitted. He resubmits. It is then passed on to a local health administrator in Downtown Atlanta who schedules a meeting with me to determine whether it is really a medical case or whether it is a psycholgical manifestation. So I go to my interview and explain that, indeed my shoulder/neck does still hurt and that I may even have further exacerbated the issue this past weekend while throwing tomatoes at anti-homeless representatives at a homeless rights march in downtown Cleveland. So, now this person processes my paper wrok and tells me that all is good and I can get my MRI, it will be scheduled for two weeks from this coming wednesday. So in the meantime I have to go to a pain management center and get 45 oxycontin, to which I eventually become addicted, thus becoming homeless and unwashed. I live outside for the next seven years, not going to the doctor because I'm when I wore my first dressing high all the time. I then contract a strain of TB that is scorching and decide to go into the hospital, upon arrival they find I also have a staph infection... Also, due to my penchant for popping oxy, I have kidney failure and renal failure. Well, they notice this and go full force in to treating my ailments, they get me back on my feet again, put me on a donor list and I get new kidneys and a new renal, also. So, now I'm an all fixed up pill head, in the best shape I've been in for decades... I get out but have nowhere to go and I need to get high. So, what do I do, I mug a lady downtown and steal her purse to buy more pills. But, I accidentally hit her too hard over the had with a piece or rebar and she dies.

 

So, there you go, an innocent person killed all because of nationalized healthcare. You happy?

[Perchoutofwater]

There is a lot to see here. Layers of Bureaucracy in between me and my helath care. I do not put much stock into the ability of a government program to provide for my well being as they have repeatedly done a craptacular job of managing anything that they touch.

 

- DOD Contracts ( a mess with extremely over inflated budgets and costs. Hell it takes 6 years to let a contract on a freaking scrwwdriver )

- VA (a mess)

- Medicare ( broke and rife w. fraud )

- Medicaid ( See above )

- FDA ( Recall all the salmonela outbreaks we had last year that ecvaded their detection )

- ICE ( they do a stellar freaking job at everything )

- ATF ( There's a great and worthwhile organization )

- TSA ( they hire freaking felons for airline security )

- HUD ( Have you been to any federally funded housing communities lately? Most are administered by the state but, federal funds prop them up )

 

Further, I fail to understand how adding 30 million people to the rolls of the insured is going to decrease costs and improve delivery of services(funny how it has gone from 42 million uninsured to 30... ) Yeah, right, preventive care is cheaper than having to deal with the uninsured who forego preventive measures and end up with more severe ailments. I don't buy it. You will see an influx of people coming into primary care physicians for preventive measures, increasing the burden on both the providers and the amount of money government is going to have to spend. Someone gets a cold for which they wouldn't have originally gone to the doctor, they'll go, hey it's free.

 

Further, private healthcare costs will go up. By extending the length of time children can stay on a parent's healthcare, by removing lifetime limits, and by removing pre-existing condition exclusions insurance companies are going to have to increase premiums on those who have policies.

 

And to address yor argument, if you want to call it that, you seem to feel that insurance companies are this evil, uncaring entity that repeatedly refuses treatment to patients. I have never been denied coverage for any treatment proscribed by any of my physicians. I don't know any person who has been denied treatment proscribed by any of their physicians. I would concur that there are some heart wrenching stories out there about people wh have been denied certain treatments by their insurance company, but those are more of the exception than the rule and the people denied said treatments have full legal recourse in those instances.

 

You state that you can get an MRI through any health insurance plan or you can get one by paying for it. YOu are correct, how simple is that going to be, however when the demand for such procedures increase DRAMATICALLY, due to the increased participants that now have access to such treatments? Further, when I am in need of an MRI, there are two actors, my physician and my insurance co. My physician calls the ins. co and says, "Hey, Todd needs and MRI." The INsurance co says, "what for". Dr. Says, "we believe he has a pinched nerve in his neck from screaming hateful slogans while attending the PITA rally at a chicken farm this weekend". Ins Co., says "you really think he needs it?" Dr. Says, "yeah, we gotta make sure that it is just a pinched nerve and that he didn't crack his scapula when he fell off of the top of the chicken coop while trying to free the chickens." Ins company says, "ok".

 

The new route will be my dr. looking at a chart and sayin ok, todd, we need to contact a healthcare administrator from the bureau of MRI and muscloskeltal afflictions. He calls up and gets put on hold for 45 minutes. THey finally answer and forward him the 42 page requisition form that he must fill out and return. A week later he gets a call and is told that the form really needs to go to the bureau of requisitions for MRI and Radiological services and it will need to be resubmitted. He resubmits. It is then passed on to a local health administrator in Downtown Atlanta who schedules a meeting with me to determine whether it is really a medical case or whether it is a psycholgical manifestation. So I go to my interview and explain that, indeed my shoulder/neck does still hurt and that I may even have further exacerbated the issue this past weekend while throwing tomatoes at anti-homeless representatives at a homeless rights march in downtown Cleveland. So, now this person processes my paper wrok and tells me that all is good and I can get my MRI, it will be scheduled for two weeks from this coming wednesday. So in the meantime I have to go to a pain management center and get 45 oxycontin, to which I eventually become addicted, thus becoming homeless and unwashed. I live outside for the next seven years, not going to the doctor because I'm when I wore my first dressing high all the time. I then contract a strain of TB that is scorching and decide to go into the hospital, upon arrival they find I also have a staph infection... Also, due to my penchant for popping oxy, I have kidney failure and renal failure. Well, they notice this and go full force in to treating my ailments, they get me back on my feet again, put me on a donor list and I get new kidneys and a new renal, also. So, now I'm an all fixed up pill head, in the best shape I've been in for decades... I get out but have nowhere to go and I need to get high. So, what do I do, I mug a lady downtown and steal her purse to buy more pills. But, I accidentally hit her too hard over the had with a piece or rebar and she dies.

 

So, there you go, an innocent person killed all because of nationalized healthcare. You happy?

 

[The Holy Roller]

There is a lot to see here. Layers of Bureaucracy in between me and my helath care. I do not put much stock into the ability of a government program to provide for my well being as they have repeatedly done a craptacular job of managing anything that they touch.

 

- DOD Contracts ( a mess with extremely over inflated budgets and costs. Hell it takes 6 years to let a contract on a freaking scrwwdriver )

- VA (a mess)

- Medicare ( broke and rife w. fraud )

- Medicaid ( See above )

- FDA ( Recall all the salmonela outbreaks we had last year that ecvaded their detection )

- ICE ( they do a stellar freaking job at everything )

- ATF ( There's a great and worthwhile organization )

- TSA ( they hire freaking felons for airline security )

- HUD ( Have you been to any federally funded housing communities lately? Most are administered by the state but, federal funds prop them up )

 

Further, I fail to understand how adding 30 million people to the rolls of the insured is going to decrease costs and improve delivery of services(funny how it has gone from 42 million uninsured to 30... ) Yeah, right, preventive care is cheaper than having to deal with the uninsured who forego preventive measures and end up with more severe ailments. I don't buy it. You will see an influx of people coming into primary care physicians for preventive measures, increasing the burden on both the providers and the amount of money government is going to have to spend. Someone gets a cold for which they wouldn't have originally gone to the doctor, they'll go, hey it's free.

 

Further, private healthcare costs will go up. By extending the length of time children can stay on a parent's healthcare, by removing lifetime limits, and by removing pre-existing condition exclusions insurance companies are going to have to increase premiums on those who have policies.

 

And to address yor argument, if you want to call it that, you seem to feel that insurance companies are this evil, uncaring entity that repeatedly refuses treatment to patients. I have never been denied coverage for any treatment proscribed by any of my physicians. I don't know any person who has been denied treatment proscribed by any of their physicians. I would concur that there are some heart wrenching stories out there about people wh have been denied certain treatments by their insurance company, but those are more of the exception than the rule and the people denied said treatments have full legal recourse in those instances.

 

You state that you can get an MRI through any health insurance plan or you can get one by paying for it. YOu are correct, how simple is that going to be, however when the demand for such procedures increase DRAMATICALLY, due to the increased participants that now have access to such treatments? Further, when I am in need of an MRI, there are two actors, my physician and my insurance co. My physician calls the ins. co and says, "Hey, Todd needs and MRI." The INsurance co says, "what for". Dr. Says, "we believe he has a pinched nerve in his neck from screaming hateful slogans while attending the PITA rally at a chicken farm this weekend". Ins Co., says "you really think he needs it?" Dr. Says, "yeah, we gotta make sure that it is just a pinched nerve and that he didn't crack his scapula when he fell off of the top of the chicken coop while trying to free the chickens." Ins company says, "ok".

 

The new route will be my dr. looking at a chart and sayin ok, todd, we need to contact a healthcare administrator from the bureau of MRI and muscloskeltal afflictions. He calls up and gets put on hold for 45 minutes. THey finally answer and forward him the 42 page requisition form that he must fill out and return. A week later he gets a call and is told that the form really needs to go to the bureau of requisitions for MRI and Radiological services and it will need to be resubmitted. He resubmits. It is then passed on to a local health administrator in Downtown Atlanta who schedules a meeting with me to determine whether it is really a medical case or whether it is a psycholgical manifestation. So I go to my interview and explain that, indeed my shoulder/neck does still hurt and that I may even have further exacerbated the issue this past weekend while throwing tomatoes at anti-homeless representatives at a homeless rights march in downtown Cleveland. So, now this person processes my paper wrok and tells me that all is good and I can get my MRI, it will be scheduled for two weeks from this coming wednesday. So in the meantime I have to go to a pain management center and get 45 oxycontin, to which I eventually become addicted, thus becoming homeless and unwashed. I live outside for the next seven years, not going to the doctor because I'm when I wore my first dressing high all the time. I then contract a strain of TB that is scorching and decide to go into the hospital, upon arrival they find I also have a staph infection... Also, due to my penchant for popping oxy, I have kidney failure and renal failure. Well, they notice this and go full force in to treating my ailments, they get me back on my feet again, put me on a donor list and I get new kidneys and a new renal, also. So, now I'm an all fixed up pill head, in the best shape I've been in for decades... I get out but have nowhere to go and I need to get high. So, what do I do, I mug a lady downtown and steal her purse to buy more pills. But, I accidentally hit her too hard over the had with a piece or rebar and she dies.

 

So, there you go, an innocent person killed all because of nationalized healthcare. You happy?

 

[westvirginia]

beautiful!

 

There is a lot to see here. Layers of Bureaucracy in between me and my helath care. I do not put much stock into the ability of a government program to provide for my well being as they have repeatedly done a craptacular job of managing anything that they touch.

 

- DOD Contracts ( a mess with extremely over inflated budgets and costs. Hell it takes 6 years to let a contract on a freaking scrwwdriver )

- VA (a mess)

- Medicare ( broke and rife w. fraud )

- Medicaid ( See above )

- FDA ( Recall all the salmonela outbreaks we had last year that ecvaded their detection )

- ICE ( they do a stellar freaking job at everything )

- ATF ( There's a great and worthwhile organization )

- TSA ( they hire freaking felons for airline security )

- HUD ( Have you been to any federally funded housing communities lately? Most are administered by the state but, federal funds prop them up )

 

Further, I fail to understand how adding 30 million people to the rolls of the insured is going to decrease costs and improve delivery of services(funny how it has gone from 42 million uninsured to 30... ) Yeah, right, preventive care is cheaper than having to deal with the uninsured who forego preventive measures and end up with more severe ailments. I don't buy it. You will see an influx of people coming into primary care physicians for preventive measures, increasing the burden on both the providers and the amount of money government is going to have to spend. Someone gets a cold for which they wouldn't have originally gone to the doctor, they'll go, hey it's free.

 

Further, private healthcare costs will go up. By extending the length of time children can stay on a parent's healthcare, by removing lifetime limits, and by removing pre-existing condition exclusions insurance companies are going to have to increase premiums on those who have policies.

 

And to address yor argument, if you want to call it that, you seem to feel that insurance companies are this evil, uncaring entity that repeatedly refuses treatment to patients. I have never been denied coverage for any treatment proscribed by any of my physicians. I don't know any person who has been denied treatment proscribed by any of their physicians. I would concur that there are some heart wrenching stories out there about people wh have been denied certain treatments by their insurance company, but those are more of the exception than the rule and the people denied said treatments have full legal recourse in those instances.

 

You state that you can get an MRI through any health insurance plan or you can get one by paying for it. YOu are correct, how simple is that going to be, however when the demand for such procedures increase DRAMATICALLY, due to the increased participants that now have access to such treatments? Further, when I am in need of an MRI, there are two actors, my physician and my insurance co. My physician calls the ins. co and says, "Hey, Todd needs and MRI." The INsurance co says, "what for". Dr. Says, "we believe he has a pinched nerve in his neck from screaming hateful slogans while attending the PITA rally at a chicken farm this weekend". Ins Co., says "you really think he needs it?" Dr. Says, "yeah, we gotta make sure that it is just a pinched nerve and that he didn't crack his scapula when he fell off of the top of the chicken coop while trying to free the chickens." Ins company says, "ok".

 

The new route will be my dr. looking at a chart and sayin ok, todd, we need to contact a healthcare administrator from the bureau of MRI and muscloskeltal afflictions. He calls up and gets put on hold for 45 minutes. THey finally answer and forward him the 42 page requisition form that he must fill out and return. A week later he gets a call and is told that the form really needs to go to the bureau of requisitions for MRI and Radiological services and it will need to be resubmitted. He resubmits. It is then passed on to a local health administrator in Downtown Atlanta who schedules a meeting with me to determine whether it is really a medical case or whether it is a psycholgical manifestation. So I go to my interview and explain that, indeed my shoulder/neck does still hurt and that I may even have further exacerbated the issue this past weekend while throwing tomatoes at anti-homeless representatives at a homeless rights march in downtown Cleveland. So, now this person processes my paper wrok and tells me that all is good and I can get my MRI, it will be scheduled for two weeks from this coming wednesday. So in the meantime I have to go to a pain management center and get 45 oxycontin, to which I eventually become addicted, thus becoming homeless and unwashed. I live outside for the next seven years, not going to the doctor because I'm when I wore my first dressing high all the time. I then contract a strain of TB that is scorching and decide to go into the hospital, upon arrival they find I also have a staph infection... Also, due to my penchant for popping oxy, I have kidney failure and renal failure. Well, they notice this and go full force in to treating my ailments, they get me back on my feet again, put me on a donor list and I get new kidneys and a new renal, also. So, now I'm an all fixed up pill head, in the best shape I've been in for decades... I get out but have nowhere to go and I need to get high. So, what do I do, I mug a lady downtown and steal her purse to buy more pills. But, I accidentally hit her too hard over the had with a piece or rebar and she dies.

 

So, there you go, an innocent person killed all because of nationalized healthcare. You happy?

[Scooby's Hubby]

Just wait til 2014 when the crap hits the fan and Congress will be standing there with their palms extended wanting an ungodly amount of money for people who do not even want healthcare, let alone pay for it. It will not be fun to be old in 2014, either. Medicare/Medicaid will be extinct as we know it today. Those who pay and have been paying will have huge deductables in order to make payments affordable.

 

My question is what happens to those who make little money and get hurt. Do they have a deductable and how will they pay it? How can a woman without a job (say her hubby or baby's daddy has a low income job) have a baby (just imagine if C-Section is required) and pay for the deductable? Will single people be able to get pregnant and then claim no insurance and get free hospital service while everyone else has to pay a deductable and operating room and Dr. costs? What about prenatal care? It just sounds like any 20 something that gets knocked up by a deadbeat boyfriend will get a free ride for being irresponsible and never put any money into the system.

 

Is your answer any different today than the answer to the same question before ObamaCare?

Edited April 6, 2010 by Scooby's Hubby

[WaterMan]

I did some research and it seems that the poor will get healthcare for free.

[Perchoutofwater]

I did some research and it seems that the poor will get healthcare for free.

 

They always have