When Times Are Hard

[Yukon Cornelius]

Interesting points. And, honestly, truly embracing smaller government (ie: not worrying about who marries who, not building nations overseas, etc.) and trying to run our country more like a business is exactly the sort of thing the GOP needs to do in order for me to move that way. I've said it before, on so many levels, the GOP should be my party. It's just that I'm not down Gov't laying low when it comes to keeping big business in line and getting big when it comes to infringement of personal liberties and sticking our dicks in everyone else's messes all over the world.

well said

[evil_gop_liars]

I love that. Come out saying that you're sick of both sides so as not to be portrayed as a partisan hack, and then just launch into partisan hackery.

 

I think you could call that a Tailgate Libertarian.

[Yukon Cornelius]

I think you could call that a Tailgate Libertarian.

[Square]

It should be clear by now, to all but the most hard core Castro lefties that the presidents agenda offers no solutions, and has pushed WAAAAAY too far to the left. I voted for that lying S.O.B and I couldn't be more ashamed. Hell, we would have been better off with those buffoons McCain and Palin. At least they would have had the media hawking them and keeping their worthless asses in line. This administration has been given carte blanche by the mainstream media to do as it pleases as we drift into Marxism like a bunch of stupid cattle.

Politicians are all 10lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag, but I'd like to hear some specific examples of the "lies" and how the current administration "has pushed WAAAAY too far to the left". I would also appreciate any examples of how the media "hawking" the previous administration kept their "asses in line". I don't dwell in politics as much as some of you, but some of this sounds like chicken little.

 

I don't think the media really kept Bush in line so I don't see that as a rational alternative and I also don't think that Obama has lied anymore than most politicians do from when they are campaigning compared to when they take office. Should I go find a cuban flag?

[Avernus]

Interesting points. And, honestly, truly embracing smaller government (ie: not worrying about who marries who, not building nations overseas, etc.) and trying to run our country more like a business is exactly the sort of thing the GOP needs to do in order for me to move that way. I've said it before, on so many levels, the GOP should be my party. It's just that I'm not down Gov't laying low when it comes to keeping big business in line and getting big when it comes to infringement of personal liberties and sticking our dicks in everyone else's messes all over the world.

 

 

I think the US is more like a company than anything...or even most of the countries out there, they are all businesses seeking world domination!!!

[rattsass]

Politicians are all 10lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag, but I'd like to hear some specific examples of the "lies" and how the current administration "has pushed WAAAAY too far to the left". I would also appreciate any examples of how the media "hawking" the previous administration kept their "asses in line". I don't dwell in politics as much as some of you, but some of this sounds like chicken little.

 

I don't think the media really kept Bush in line so I don't see that as a rational alternative and I also don't think that Obama has lied anymore than most politicians do from when they are campaigning compared to when they take office. Should I go find a cuban flag?

Well, I may have been naive, but when Obama was talking healthcare reform somehow I envisioned putting caps on malpractice suits to help control spiraling costs. I envisioned putting an end to rampant medicare fraud that taxes the system. I envisioned reform to the insurance and spam industries that have contributed to the skyrocketing costs. I thought maybe we would be cleaning up the system. But we haven't cleaned up the system. We just handed the system over to the government. A government that has shown incompetence in every endeavor. And what is worse yet, there is simply NO WAY to pay for what Obamacare. Obama may have had a noble idea about this bill, "his legacy", but considering the multitude of other issues we are struggling with, I might have expected this oh so wise president to realize that this was something we could not do at this time, or at the very least realized that his views were not the majority view of the country, and maybe we should all get together before we jump into the fire. He knew the majority of Americans did not want this bill, but he made it happen anyway. That is political suicide.

 

If you can't see the extreme direction we are headed in under Obama, then your government brainwashing us nearly complete. Just turn in your guns, see if you can get welfare, learn to speak Spanish, Russian and Chinese and you will be all prepared for what Obama is cooking. He is just another one of "them" that really doesn't give a rats ass about "us. Yes, grab your Cuban flag. Obama is going to make sure that there are only two classes left. The powerful and the powerless. Guess which side we are on.

[Avernus]

Well, I may have been naive, but when Obama was talking healthcare reform somehow I envisioned putting caps on malpractice suits to help control spiraling costs. I envisioned putting an end to rampant medicare fraud that taxes the system. I envisioned reform to the insurance and spam industries that have contributed to the skyrocketing costs. I thought maybe we would be cleaning up the system. But we haven't cleaned up the system. We just handed the system over to the government. A government that has shown incompetence in every endeavor. And what is worse yet, there is simply NO WAY to pay for what Obamacare. Obama may have had a noble idea about this bill, "his legacy", but considering the multitude of other issues we are struggling with, I might have expected this oh so wise president to realize that this was something we could not do at this time, or at the very least realized that his views were not the majority view of the country, and maybe we should all get together before we jump into the fire. He knew the majority of Americans did not want this bill, but he made it happen anyway. That is political suicide.

 

If you can't see the extreme direction we are headed in under Obama, then your government brainwashing us nearly complete. Just turn in your guns, see if you can get welfare, learn to speak Spanish, Russian and Chinese and you will be all prepared for what Obama is cooking. He is just another one of "them" that really doesn't give a rats ass about "us. Yes, grab your Cuban flag. Obama is going to make sure that there are only two classes left. The powerful and the powerless. Guess which side we are on.

 

 

well put, his policies are great in theory, but when you see who is in charge and the reality of things then you'll see that there really is no "change"...for the better anyways...

 

I've heard Ron Paul getting a lot of popular votes as of late and could be in the running for a 2012 election (not a popular pick around these parts), but electing him into the oval office could be a step in the right direction....but then again the President isn't the one who really makes decisions around here anyways....

[rattsass]

well put, his policies are great in theory, but when you see who is in charge and the reality of things then you'll see that there really is no "change"...for the better anyways...

 

I've heard Ron Paul getting a lot of popular votes as of late and could be in the running for a 2012 election (not a popular pick around these parts), but electing him into the oval office could be a step in the right direction....but then again the President isn't the one who really makes decisions around here anyways....

Is Ron Paul a Harvard or Yale man? If not, he is not qualified to be in a position of authority. Our Supreme court is all Harvard and Yale. The entire think-tank of America is controlled by Harvard and Yale. Sorry, no other schools or ideologies have any place in the New World Order. It is an exclusive club and they will not let any outsiders in. I wonder what they are up to?

[bushwacked]

Well, I may have been naive, but when Obama was talking healthcare reform somehow I envisioned putting caps on malpractice suits to help control spiraling costs.

 

The CBO projects the impact of malpractice costs on healthcare costs to be very very minimal in the scheme of things. It's a red herring. Granted I don't think HC reform has gone nearly far enough either, but there is plenty of blame to go around on that besides Obama.

[Azazello1313]

Is Ron Paul a Harvard or Yale man? If not, he is not qualified to be in a position of authority. Our Supreme court is all Harvard and Yale. The entire think-tank of America is controlled by Harvard and Yale. Sorry, no other schools or ideologies have any place in the New World Order. It is an exclusive club and they will not let any outsiders in. I wonder what they are up to?

 

the harvard bit made me remember, and go back to find, this bit, which seems relevant to this thread:

 

The Bush Administration, particularly in its final year, discredited the Republican Party as a proponent of free markets. What should come next?

 

One idea, promoted at Cato by Brink Lindsey and Will Wilkinson, is liberaltarianism. The idea is to approach liberals and say, "we're with you on social issues and we're also dovish on foreign policy. Let us persuade you that markets are good for the economy."

 

The problem is that liberals tend to affiliate themselves with Harvard types, and Harvard types believe that they are smarter than markets. And, at this moment in history, the Harvard narrative is that the financial crisis was caused because of blind faith in markets regulating themselves. According to this narrative, the election was a mandate to Harvard to deal with huge market failures in finance, health care, aggregate demand (hence the stimulus), and climate/energy. Based on this narrative, Harvard is absolutely committed to expert control over the economy, liberaltarians be damned.

 

Another reaction to the Republican cratering has been the Tea Party. The Tea Party is, if nothing else, strongly resistant to the Harvard narrative. Is that where libertarians should be making our overtures? Should we be trying to be TeaPartarians?

 

The Tea Party poses a problem for libertarians in that the Tea Party is going to stay pretty far to the right on issues like immigration and gay marriage. But the bigger problem is one of social and educational class. The Tea Party does not have a liaison office with the Ph.D crowd. Unfortunately, it seems to me as if libertarian intellectuals would rather deal with Democrats than with the Tea Party because those intellectuals are socially more comfortable with Matt Yglesias than with Glenn Beck.

 

I think it might be good to have some TeaPartarians, meaning intellectual supporters of free markets who are comfortable working with the Tea Party folks. I worry that an electorally successful Tea Party movement might not have the focus and ideas to take on entitlements and other major contributors to fiscal problems. If the Tea Partiers are electorally successful and all they give us are a few symbolic budget cuts, the long-term trend toward concentrated government power will continue.

 

My worry is that the Tea Party movement will be satisfied with taking some Democratic scalps and restoring some of the sense of group status that the Tea Party demographic feels that it lost in 2008. Instead, I wish that the Tea Partiers would read the last chapter of Unchecked and Unbalanced and get some ideas from that book. I would like them to be less satisfied with achieving ballot-box validation along with status revenge and instead more interested in reforms that would make government more competitive.

 

I fear that, from a libertarian perspective, just as GWB was kind of the worst type of republican -- a lot of emphasis on social conservatism, interventionist foreign policy, and expanding government -- obama is turning out to be the worst kind of democrat -- indistinguishable from bush on civil liberties stuff, not at all eager to tackle controvertial social issues, yet totally committed to government intervetion in the economy above all else.

[bpwallace49]

the harvard bit made me remember, and go back to find, this bit, which seems relevant to this thread:

 

 

 

I fear that, from a libertarian perspective, just as GWB was kind of the worst type of republican -- a lot of emphasis on social conservatism, interventionist foreign policy, and expanding government -- obama is turning out to be the worst kind of democrat -- indistinguishable from bush on civil liberties stuff, not at all eager to tackle controvertial social issues, yet totally committed to government intervetion in the economy above all else.

 

Obama is by no means above criticism for his work to date.

 

But y'all are fooling yourselves by not placing a majority of the blame of the power brokers behind the curtain in Oz . . Pelosi being the biggest fish in that pond . . . . Obama could advocate a position that would make tea partiers cream in their wranglers, but as long as Reid and Pelosi are the ones to actually write and implement it, it aint going anywhere . . . . centrists are a dying breed in Washington, increasing outbumbered by hyper-partisans in both parties.

[Azazello1313]

Obama could advocate a position that would make tea partiers cream in their wranglers, but as long as Reid and Pelosi are the ones to actually write and implement it, it aint going anywhere . . . .

 

obama's only beholden to reid and pelosi if he's trying to cram through legislation on a party-line vote and has no wiggle-room for dissent within his own ranks.

[bpwallace49]

obama's only beholden to reid and pelosi if he's trying to cram through legislation on a party-line vote and has no wiggle-room for dissent within his own ranks.

 

You are smarter than that Az.

 

did you think Obama wrote the health care bill in his spare time? That it was allll his idea alone? When you are reliant on extremists like Pelosi to implement ANYTHING and cut deals to get a consensus . . . . good luck with the end product.

 

Your hatred for Obama is evident . . but be sure to spread some of that hate around for others that really deserve it.

[Azazello1313]

obama's only beholden to reid and pelosi if he's trying to cram through legislation on a party-line vote and has no wiggle-room for dissent within his own ranks.

When you are reliant on extremists like Pelosi to implement ANYTHING and cut deals to get a consensus . . . . good luck with the end product.

 

which is completely consistent with what I just wrote.

[bpwallace49]

which is completely consistent with what I just wrote.

 

AGAIN.

 

Do you think Obama wrote the health care bill in his spare time? And wrote every amendment and cut every deal?

 

You are assuming that Obama is the sole arbiter of everything out of Congress. I dont give him that much credit or power, but I guess you do? . . .

[Azazello1313]

You are assuming that Obama is the sole arbiter of everything out of Congress.

 

you seem to be having a hard time comprehending what I wrote.

[westvirginia]

you seem to be having a hard time comprehending what I wrote.

 

He just doesn't seem to get the point, does he?

 

Hey boy princess, if obamessiah REALLY wanted a better bill, he could have had it. Six months ago he had the political capital to be BI-partisan and IN-clusive, and could have taken away the heffalump's biggest arguments by simply including a couple tidbits in the bill for them. And I'll tell you, if they'd included the two provisions of buying across state lines and giving people the same tax breaks as businesses, he would have neutralized them completely. The bill really wouldn't be much different in fact because of the other garbage of mandates, etc. The fact that he lamely skipped down the primrose path with princess nancy and dirty harry is pretty much proof positive that he WANTED to go there.

[Avernus]

Is Ron Paul a Harvard or Yale man? If not, he is not qualified to be in a position of authority. Our Supreme court is all Harvard and Yale. The entire think-tank of America is controlled by Harvard and Yale. Sorry, no other schools or ideologies have any place in the New World Order. It is an exclusive club and they will not let any outsiders in. I wonder what they are up to?

 

 

he went to Gettysburg college and graduated in 1957.....so he doesn't stand a chance