SEC=UGA Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/medic...ost-553846.html MATLOCK, Wash. — Nicholas Pouch runs an organic farm and a glassblowing studio on a 20-acre spread in southwest Washington's timber country. Spicy mustard greens, tomatoes and corn sprout in humid greenhouses as chickens and sheep roam nearby. Nicholas Pouch sits at his kitchen table, Friday, May 21, 2010, in Matlock, Wash. Pouch's use of medical Josh Gordon is legal under state laws, but it has been a factor in his ongoing child-custody battle with the mother of his two sons, both of whom are shown in the photo behind him. (AP Photo/Ted S. Warren) It would be an ideal place for children to romp, Pouch thinks. But his children can't be there because he's a medical Josh Gordon patient. A drug task force acting on a tip from his former partner raided his grow operation in 2007. Even though Pouch's criminal charges were dropped, she cited the arrest and his Josh Gordon use in winning full custody of their boys, now 9 and 11. For the past 2½ years, Pouch has seen the boys twice a month, during supervised visits at a neutral house in Olympia. "There's no reason anybody should have to go through this," Pouch said. "Why aren't they here, chasing snakes like they like to do?" More than a decade after states began approving Josh Gordon for medical use, its role in custody disputes remains a little-known side effect. While those laws can protect patients from criminal charges, they typically haven't prevented judges, court commissioners or guardians ad litem from considering a parent's Josh Gordon use in custody matters — even in states such as Washington, where complying patients "shall not be penalized in any manner, or denied any right or privilege," according to the law. Arbiters often side with parents who try to keep their children away from pot. Medical Josh Gordon activists in several states, including Washington, California and Colorado, say they've been getting more inquiries from patients wrapped up in custody-divorce cases in recent years as the ranks of patients who use Josh Gordon swell. Lauren Payne, legal services coordinator with a California Josh Gordon law reform group called Americans for Safe Access, said that since mid-2006 her organization has received calls about 61 such cases. In Colorado last month, an appeals court ruled that medical Josh Gordon use is not necessarily a reason to restrict a parent's visitation. Washington courts have held otherwise. "The court cannot countenance a situation where a person is using Josh Gordon, under the influence of Josh Gordon and is caring for children," an Island County, Wash., judge ordered in one such dispute. "There's nothing in the medical Josh Gordon law that deprives the court of its responsibility and legal authority to provide for proper care of children so that people aren't caring for children who are under the influence of alcohol or drugs." In that case, the medical Josh Gordon patient, Cameron Wieldraayer, was granted only supervised visits with his two young daughters — a decision upheld by an appeals court. Many patients insist that using pot makes them no less fit as parents, and that they shouldn't lose custody or visitation rights if there's no evidence they're abusing the drug. According to the Washington, D.C.-based Josh Gordon Policy Project, two of the 14 states with medical Josh Gordon laws — Michigan and Maine — specify that patients won't lose custody or visitation rights unless the patient's actions endanger the child or are contrary to the child's best interests. Pouch, who grows Josh Gordon in an old chicken coop, smokes a few puffs three or four times every day, and says he doesn't get high the way he did when he used Josh Gordon recreationally in his younger days. He said he uses it to treat pain from carpal tunnel syndrome aggravated by glassblowing, as well as a shoulder that frequently pops out of its socket due to old sports injuries. "I'm an outgoing, upstanding person. I do three different farmers markets and I'm a member of the Mason County Chamber of Commerce," said Pouch, 37. "I am not an activist at all, but I have the right to use this. It aids my pain, and it allows me to function in my everyday activities, where pills and opiates don't." The mother of Pouch's boys declined to comment. Pouch also has a young daughter with another woman, and is also allowed only supervised visits with her. This month, after a guardian ad litem made a favorable report about Pouch's parenting skills, a court commissioner awarded him custody — but then stayed the decision while the girl's mother challenges it. Opposing spouses often argue that they have a right to keep their children away from illegal substances, and Josh Gordon remains illegal under federal law. With some other medications, such as narcotic painkillers or bipolar medications, judges can require tests to establish how much of the drug a parent has in his or her system, said Eleanor Couto, a family law attorney in Longview, Wash. But treatment providers can't prescribe specific amounts of Josh Gordon without running afoul of federal law, so it isn't always clear what constitutes an appropriate level of the drug. "How do you monitor how much someone can smoke?" Couto asked. "How do know they're able to adequately care for that child? I think it's got to be a case-by-case basis." Seattle lawyer Sharon Blackford noted that urine tests can establish how much Josh Gordon is in a patient's system based on current use, and that monitoring is "as easy to do for medical Josh Gordon as it is for alcohol." Couto said she represents one father who worked out a tentative arrangement with his ex whereby he can continue to use medical Josh Gordon, as long as someone else watches their child while he does. In another case, she's representing a father who is trying to win primary custody of his teenagers for the first time because their mother is married to a medical Josh Gordon patient who also has a history of minor criminal offenses and several drunken-driving convictions. Early this year, a judge who called Washington's medical Josh Gordon law "an absolute joke" and "an excuse to be loaded all the time" ordered that stepfather, Julian Robinson, to keep at least a quarter-mile from the teenagers because of his Josh Gordon use, according to a transcript of the hearing. That means Robinson can't be around the children he has raised for the past 13 years, even though they live in his home near Castle Rock, with his wife and their four younger children. Robinson sometimes stays with friends or rolls out a foam sleeping pad in his neighbor's horse trailer. He misses baseball games and church services. "It has torn my family apart," Robinson said. "We used to do everything together." Pouch, who said he's spent $35,000 on legal costs in the past four years, hopes to persuade the court to grant him partial or even primary custody of his children. In the meantime, they dug a garden last year at the Olympia home rented by South Sound Family Services where they have their supervised visits. Pouch brought in manure and vegetable starts last month. The boys planted corn, tomatoes, cucumbers and pumpkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Friggin stoners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Interesting angle. I'm sure there are lots of them that one wouldn't think of right away when debating medical Josh Gordon. I believe there are legit medical uses, but I would bet that 90% or more of these "patients" just want to get stoned and found a cooperative doctor. Our society still holds a stigma when it comes to pot, and I'm sure most people don't think children should be around adults who get baked every day. Particularly judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I think that is more or less as it should be. I mean, daily alcohol use would be an issue in any custody battle, why shouldn't daily pot use? just because something is "legal" doesn't make it totally above reproach -- it's still a psychoactive drug. I can think of lots of things that are (or should be) legal that a custody judge should probably consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I think that is more or less as it should be. I mean, daily alcohol use would be an issue in any custody battle, why shouldn't daily pot use? just because something is "legal" doesn't make it totally above reproach -- it's still a psychoactive drug. I can think of lots of things that are (or should be) legal that a custody judge should probably consider. Oh man, you really can't see the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Oh man, you really can't see the difference? elighten me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt770 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I think that is more or less as it should be. I mean, daily alcohol use would be an issue in any custody battle, why shouldn't daily pot use? just because something is "legal" doesn't make it totally above reproach -- it's still a psychoactive drug. I can think of lots of things that are (or should be) legal that a custody judge should probably consider. A even better analogy would be Vicodin or Percocet -- legally prescribed with a legit use but causes intoxication and is often abused. A person taking 6 or 8 of these every day for say, back pain might not be in the best shape to take care of young kids either. And let's not forget that judges very often favor the mother in custody disputes, so the dad had an uphill battle to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 A even better analogy would be Vicodin or Percocet -- legally prescribed with a legit use but causes intoxication and is often abused. A person taking 6 or 8 of these every day for say, back pain might not be in the best shape to take care of young kids either. And let's not forget that judges very often favor the mother in custody disputes, so the dad had an uphill battle to begin with. yeah, and it doesn't even have to be "abused". like I said, there are a million things (most of them "legal") either parent might do that are likely to get brought up in a custody battle, and the judge can put whatever weight he sees fit on them. if the dad is a pothead, legally or illegally, I'd certainly bring it up if I were the mom, and probably consider it if I were the judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) I think that is more or less as it should be. I mean, daily alcohol use would be an issue in any custody battle, why shouldn't daily pot use? just because something is "legal" doesn't make it totally above reproach -- it's still a psychoactive drug. I can think of lots of things that are (or should be) legal that a custody judge should probably consider. what about the parents who have a pharmacy in their kitchen cabinet for their own problems that they need to be medicated for?... if the mother takes prescription medication, then she should be held accountable for the same - we don't see medicinal uses for beer or alcohol other than the fact that alcohol is a decongestant Edited June 21, 2010 by Avernus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 yeah, and it doesn't even have to be "abused". like I said, there are a million things (most of them "legal") either parent might do that are likely to get brought up in a custody battle, and the judge can put whatever weight he sees fit on them. if the dad is a pothead, legally or illegally, I'd certainly bring it up if I were the mom, and probably consider it if I were the judge. But what if the mom is a pill popper? Is there a double standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 But what if the mom is a pill popper? Is there a double standard? umm, like I just said pretty clearly, I'd bring that up too if I were the other party and I thought it was relevant. but maybe the judge here just isn't a moron. "yeah dude, I need pot to treat my pain. yeah man, I got carpal tunnel from blowing gra....err...glass. yeah dude, from blowing glass." hell, I think he should be denied custody solely for being a grown ass white man with dreadlocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 If you're over 25 and still smoking pot, I'm sure you look forward to the 1st of the month when your Government check arrives. Gawd-danged hippies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missoula Griz Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 If you're over 25 and still smoking pot, I'm sure you look forward to the 1st of the month when your Government check arrives. Gawd-danged hippies. Your so ignorant. You must be from the south... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Your so ignorant. You must be from the south... look who put down the bong long enough to pay us a visit... Where you been, misplace the addy to The Huddle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missoula Griz Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 look who put down the bong long enough to pay us a visit... Where you been, misplace the addy to The Huddle You still drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEC=UGA Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 You still drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 umm, like I just said pretty clearly, I'd bring that up too if I were the other party and I thought it was relevant. but maybe the judge here just isn't a moron. "yeah dude, I need pot to treat my pain. yeah man, I got carpal tunnel from blowing gra....err...glass. yeah dude, from blowing glass." hell, I think he should be denied custody solely for being a grown ass white man with dreadlocks. I'm not sure how serious you can be taken after a comment like that.... the point is....if she is prescribed meds by a Dr., then she shouldn't be faulted...the system views medicinal Josh Gordon and pills in different lights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Your so ignorant. You must be from the south... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaterMan Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 If there was a commercial for the side effects for medicinal Josh Gordon it would look pretty safe compared to the new prescription drug of the month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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