Analysts: Letting Bush tax cuts die would kill recovery...

[Azazello1313]

get rid of ALL the bush tax cuts for EVERYONE and we are still nowhere near being able to finance the government being dictated to us from on high.

[Ursa Majoris]

get rid of ALL the bush tax cuts for EVERYONE and we are still nowhere near being able to finance the government being dictated to us from on high.

True. The debate around spending cuts really hasn't begun though unless the GOP have a proposal out there that goes to something more specific than "government waste".

[Perchoutofwater]

True. The debate around spending cuts really hasn't begun though unless the GOP have a proposal out there that goes to something more specific than "government waste".

 

What cuts are the DNC touting, aside from taking away the tax cuts for business owners?

[Azazello1313]

True. The debate around spending cuts really hasn't begun though unless the GOP have a proposal out there that goes to something more specific than "government waste".

 

well there's this.

[Ursa Majoris]

What cuts are the DNC touting, aside from taking away the tax cuts for business owners?

I want to know what the GOP policy is, given that you're supposedly going to romp home in the mid-terms (and therefore actually have to act semi-responsibly again). What cuts have the GOP proposed, preferably in a comprehensive package? While you're looking it up, I'll go and get Obama's........yeah, I know you don't think it's enough but don't let that distract you from showing me the GOP proposals.

[Ursa Majoris]

well there's this.

OK, I see acres of print under Roadmap but I see absolutely no specifics beyond the "waste" so beloved of right wing radio.

[Azazello1313]

OK, I see acres of print under Roadmap but I see absolutely no specifics beyond the "waste" so beloved of right wing radio.

 

you're too lazy to read it so that means it must just be right wing radio talking points?

 

here, the CBO letter may help you isolate many of the "specifics"

[Jimmy Neutron]

Indeed there is. But what is it? Large blocks of waste only, please.

 

I think we cut from everthing. A responsible (IMO) would go to each of his "managers" and tell them they have X% less to work with over X amount of time. I've had to do this a couple of times in my career and it is painful, buyt in each case we made it work. Necessity is the mother of invention. Many in business are continually asked to do more with less - too many in govermment still live in a culture of "spend everything this year, or we won't get it next year." Mindmunbingly, I recently had a long talk with an engineer from CalTrans (CA DOT) who had exactly this picture of how their budgets work. Kinda screwed up for a state that is flat broke and in arrears with many of its creditors.

 

Bureaucrats in every fed and state agency need some lessons in modern business - something like Lean Six training would be HUGH. Every single time I come in contact with a government agency, I am floored by the the inefficiency I see as a casual observer. I'm sure it would be even scarier if I got behind the counter and looked at the books.

[Ursa Majoris]

well there's this.

 

 

you're too lazy to read it so that means it must just be right wing radio talking points?

 

here, the CBO letter may help you isolate many of the "specifics"

Well, that's Ayn Rand Rand Paul taken care of. What do you have from the Republicans?

[wiegie]

here, the CBO letter may help you isolate many of the "specifics"

you want to explain what this means?

Other Tax Provisions. The proposal would make significant changes to the tax

system.(2) However, as specified by your staff, for this analysis total federal tax revenues

are assumed to equal those under CBO’s alternative fiscal scenario (which is one interpretation

of what it would mean to continue current fiscal policy) until they reach

19 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2030, and to remain at that share of

GDP thereafter.

(2)The proposal would offer individuals the choice of paying their income taxes under the existing

tax code or a highly simplified tax system. The simplified system would broaden the tax base, compress

the tax schedule down to two rates, and retain a standard deduction and personal exemption.

No tax would apply to capital gains, dividends, or interest. No alternative minimum tax or estate

tax would exist. Taxpayers would pay 10 percent on earnings up to $100,000 for joint filers

($50,000 for single filers) and 25 percent on earnings above that amount. The standard deduction

would be $25,000 for joint filers ($12,500 for single filers), and the personal exemption would be

$3,500. The corporate income tax would be replaced with a broad-based business consumption

tax of 8.5 percent. New business investment could be immediately expensed. Payroll taxes, excise

taxes, customs duties, and other miscellaneous receipts would be maintained.

My guess is that you don't (because it would pretty much make your use of the CBO's letter to Paul Ryan useless for your purposes).

Edited August 3, 2010 by wiegie

[Perchoutofwater]

Well, that's Ayn Rand Rand Paul taken care of. What do you have from the Republicans?

 

That is Paul Ryan, not Rand Paul. Last time I checked Paul Ryan was a Republican.

[Ursa Majoris]

That is Paul Ryan, not Rand Paul. Last time I checked Paul Ryan was a Republican.

Ha. Mea culpa. Could have sworn it said Rand Paul.

[Azazello1313]

you want to explain what this means?

My guess is that you don't (because it would pretty much make your use of the CBO's letter to Paul Ryan useless for your purposes).

 

well actually, weren't we talking about spending cuts? that part is pretty well spelled out by the CBO relative to the current baseline (the "alternative fiscal scenario"), so it is extremely useful for the purposes ursa was asking about.

[wiegie]

well actually, weren't we talking about spending cuts? that part is pretty well spelled out by the CBO relative to the current baseline (the "alternative fiscal scenario"), so it is extremely useful for the purposes ursa was asking about.

my bad

[WaterMan]

Pew Research Poll

 

"Which comes closer to your view about the tax cuts passed when George W. Bush was president? All of the tax cuts should remain in place. Tax cuts for the wealthy should be repealed, while others stay in place. All of the tax cuts should be repealed."

 

Keep all the tax cuts: 30%

Repeal the tax cuts for the wealthy: 27%

Repeal all the tax cuts: 31%

 

Pretty divided.

[Yukon Cornelius]

True. The debate around spending cuts really hasn't begun though unless the GOP have a proposal out there that goes to something more specific than "government waste".

[bpwallace49]

That is Paul Ryan, not Rand Paul. Last time I checked Paul Ryan was a Republican.

 

And most of the GOP doesnt support Paul Ryan's Roadmap . . which shows how much they care about actually changing things.

 

The Roadmap has a LOT of very, very good ideas in it . . but Ryan is pretty much on an island. Boehner has very carefully defined the Raodmap as Paul Ryans ideas . . and NOT the ideas of the GOP.

 

Both parties are very invested with keeping their own power base and financail puppeters happy . . . ane the rest of us are frucked.

[Ursa Majoris]

And most of the GOP doesnt support Paul Ryan's Roadmap . . which shows how much they care about actually changing things.

 

The Roadmap has a LOT of very, very good ideas in it . . but Ryan is pretty much on an island. Boehner has very carefully defined the Raodmap as Paul Ryans ideas . . and NOT the ideas of the GOP.

 

Both parties are very invested with keeping their own power base and financail puppeters happy . . . ane the rest of us are frucked.

My neighbor across the road is running as a Republican. Last night he came to National Night Out to drum up support and I asked him about the GOP's alternative proposals. Blank stare. I asked him if there were actually going to be any or if they would just run on Obama criticism. Mumbling. I asked about the plan for social security. No clue.

 

At that point he made his excuses and looked for someone to rah-rah with.

 

Ryan's document actually has a ton of good stuff in it when you get past the bluster and hot air. The fact that the GOP won't endorse it - or any of it - means that this upcoming election is effectively pointless since neither party has the nads to address anything of true significance. Both are going to continue to winnow away around the edges of what matters because to do otherwise would make them, in their eyes, unelectable.

 

Personally I think the problem is that we as a nation don't want to listen to reality. It's OK saying our politicians won't address it but they know we won't either.

[Azazello1313]

My neighbor across the road is running as a Republican. Last night he came to National Night Out to drum up support and I asked him about the GOP's alternative proposals. Blank stare. I asked him if there were actually going to be any or if they would just run on Obama criticism. Mumbling. I asked about the plan for social security. No clue.

 

At that point he made his excuses and looked for someone to rah-rah with.

 

Ryan's document actually has a ton of good stuff in it when you get past the bluster and hot air. The fact that the GOP won't endorse it - or any of it - means that this upcoming election is effectively pointless since neither party has the nads to address anything of true significance. Both are going to continue to winnow away around the edges of what matters because to do otherwise would make them, in their eyes, unelectable.

 

Personally I think the problem is that we as a nation don't want to listen to reality. It's OK saying our politicians won't address it but they know we won't either.

 

well, it's true. yet, what are the obama adminstration's proposals for addressing the long term structural deficits? (hint: they don't have any) it is the administration's JOB to propose a budget, and they haven't come close to offering one that is remotely sustainable. their strategy is simply to pass the buck to the "bipartisan fiscal commission". many establidhment republicans don't want to speak the truth either -- gotta stay away from that third rail in an election year.

 

doesn't change the fact that ryan's roadmap is a far more serious effort than anything coming from the other side. so your handwringing protests about "where are the republican proposals?" are pretty hollow.

[WaterMan]

well, it's true. yet, what are the obama adminstration's proposals for addressing the long term structural deficits? (hint: they don't have any) it is the administration's JOB to propose a budget, and they haven't come close to offering one that is remotely sustainable. their strategy is simply to pass the buck to the "bipartisan fiscal commission". many establidhment republicans don't want to speak the truth either -- gotta stay away from that third rail in an election year.

 

doesn't change the fact that ryan's roadmap is a far more serious effort than anything coming from the other side. so your handwringing protests about "where are the republican proposals?" are pretty hollow.

 

Bush's two wars and cutting taxes were a brilliant idea for the deficit. Now we have Obama giving help to the poor, but they don't really know how to pay for it. It seems like we need a 3rd party to really enter the elections, maybe even a 4th party. Just someone with actual good ideas instead of this tug of war between lobby-ers on either side of the aisle.

[Jimmy Neutron]

And most of the GOP doesnt support Paul Ryan's Roadmap . . which shows how much they care about actually changing things.

 

The Roadmap has a LOT of very, very good ideas in it . . but Ryan is pretty much on an island. Boehner has very carefully defined the Raodmap as Paul Ryans ideas . . and NOT the ideas of the GOP.

 

Both parties are very invested with keeping their own power base and financail puppeters happy . . . ane the rest of us are frucked.

 

That sums it up nicely.