Firefighters denied access to WI capital building?

[bpwallace49]

So nothing can be done until Walker cuts his own pay??? Isn't that small? Are you not also one of the people that says when Obama is trying to cut that they should not look at the small things they need to hit the big ticket items??

 

 

What he is trying to with public union bargaining rights and the pension/insurance is a little bigger than cutting his own salary so according to what you suggest Obama and the federal govt should do contradicts what you think Walker should do.

 

I think Walker should cut his own pay - that would probably help his cause but if he does I have a feeling you will not all of the sudden praise him and be on his side???

 

I have already said that if Walker evenly applied his cuts across all public employees that I would have much more respect for him instead of teh cherry picking he is doing now. Several times in fact . . .

 

You blather on about how to close the deficit, but when it comes to the elected reps or anyone besides the teachers union, then it is too small to matter? The symbology of Wlaker taking a pay cut would be HUGE in repairing his damaged reputation of him trying to say it is all about the money. If it is about saving money, then lead by example. Public opinion is turning against him. Why not make it impartial, not personal, and have ALL public employees take a pay cut?

[gbpfan1231]

I have already said that if Walker evenly applied his cuts across all public employees that I would have much more respect for him instead of teh cherry picking he is doing now. Several times in fact . . .

 

You blather on about how to close the deficit, but when it comes to the elected reps or anyone besides the teachers union, then it is too small to matter? The symbology of Wlaker taking a pay cut would be HUGE in repairing his damaged reputation of him trying to say it is all about the money. If it is about saving money, then lead by example. Public opinion is turning against him. Why not make it impartial, not personal, and have ALL public employees take a pay cut?

Me blather my god (pot meet kettle) - OK we actually do agree on most things.

 

Let the record show that I have read your 100 posts that the cuts should be applied to ALL. I hear you I hear you and I agree.

 

Also, let the record show that I have also read your MULTIPLE posts that Walker should cut his own pay. I have read that and I also agree.

 

Are you saying that those two things give the 14 dems the right to flee the state and not do what we as taxpayers are paying them to do? I hope not.

 

So here is a hypothetical to you Mr Wallace. Let's say you are one of these 14 that have fled the state. If Walker negotiates and does the following:

 

1. Includes ALL public union employees in his BRB

2. Walker takes a 10% pay cut.

 

Will you Mr Wallace come back and vote for it? It seems that is all you are arguing against.

 

If not what if Walker throws in a free nose job for you? I did read the Mystery Huddle posts.

Edited March 6, 2011 by gbpfan1231

[Ursa Majoris]

You got a that right. Recall proceedings have already started for some of the cowards hiding out in IL.

 

You missed this bit:

 

"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland ... They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." -- Ronald Reagan (Labor Day address, 1980.)

[gbpfan1231]

You missed this bit:

I found this quote from Reagan - sorry I don't know how to do the fancy quote things so I will just copy and paste...

 

"...Let me make one thing plain. I respect the right of workers in the private sector to strike. Indeed, as president of my own union, I led the first strike ever called by that union. I guess I'm maybe the first one to ever hold this office who is a lifetime member of an AFL - CIO union. But we cannot compare labor-management relations in the private sector with government. Government cannot close down the assembly line. It has to provide without interruption the protective services which are government's reason for being..." - President Ronald Reagan

[bpwallace49]

Me blather my god (pot meet kettle) - OK we actually do agree on most things.

 

Let the record show that I have read your 100 posts that the cuts should be applied to ALL. I hear you I hear you and I agree.

 

Also, let the record show that I have also read your MULTIPLE posts that Walker should cut his own pay. I have read that and I also agree.

 

Are you saying that those two things give the 14 dems the right to flee the state and not do what we as taxpayers are paying them to do? I hope not.

 

So here is a hypothetical to you Mr Wallace. Let's say you are one of these 14 that have fled the state. If Walker negotiates and does the following:

 

1. Includes ALL public union employees in his BRB

2. Walker takes a 10% pay cut.

 

Will you Mr Wallace come back and vote for it? It seems that is all you are arguing against.

 

If not what if Walker throws in a free nose job for you? I did read the Mystery Huddle posts.

 

 

Yeah, I would be all for that. No problem. That evenly applies the standard, and solves the deficit. Now if Walker DOES start selling off state assets with zero oversight, then I reserve my right to slam him mercilessly for being a hypocritical douchebag.

 

gbpfan . . .the Dems leaving the state is the equivalent to the republicans in the US senate filibustering every single bill to slow down the pace of gubmnet on purpose. It is a parlimentary trick, nothing more. You have fallen into the rhetoric you listen to on talk radio by getting all hot and bothered by them not "doing the job the taxpayers are paying them to do". They ARE doing what they beleive they are paid to do. Stand up for the people that elected them. You and Tossberg both assume that every "taxpayer" is 100% behind the Walker bill, when that obviously is not the case, as proven by public opinion the longer this draws out. You are getting emotionally invested in this, for some odd reason.

 

Do you think the Republicans in the Senate should have recall elections for filibustering every bill that crosses their path and therefore slowing down gubmnet just like the Dems in Wisconsin? It is silly that politics have to resort to childish antics and people getting more excited about "screw you! my side won so now my party can SKULL Ginsu YOU until the next election" rather than actually using reasonable, civil negotiations and discourse to settle public policy.

[gbpfan1231]

Yeah, I would be all for that. No problem. That evenly applies the standard, and solves the deficit. Now if Walker DOES start selling off state assets with zero oversight, then I reserve my right to slam him mercilessly for being a hypocritical douchebag.

 

gbpfan . . .the Dems leaving the state is the equivalent to the republicans in the US senate filibustering every single bill to slow down the pace of gubmnet on purpose. It is a parlimentary trick, nothing more. You have fallen into the rhetoric you listen to on talk radio by getting all hot and bothered by them not "doing the job the taxpayers are paying them to do". They ARE doing what they beleive they are paid to do. Stand up for the people that elected them. You and Tossberg both assume that every "taxpayer" is 100% behind the Walker bill, when that obviously is not the case, as proven by public opinion the longer this draws out. You are getting emotionally invested in this, for some odd reason.

 

Do you think the Republicans in the Senate should have recall elections for filibustering every bill that crosses their path and therefore slowing down gubmnet just like the Dems in Wisconsin? It is silly that politics have to resort to childish antics and people getting more excited about "screw you! my side won so now my party can SKULL Ginsu YOU until the next election" rather than actually using reasonable, civil negotiations and discourse to settle public policy.

It is odd that I am getting emotionally invested in this??? That is a very stupid thing to say. Let's see here - I am a resident of Wisconsin who has had pay freezes but still see my property taxes go up. I have a sister who is a teacher at the state technical college here in Green Bay. My brother in law is in mgmt at the same tech college. My BIL mother is a teacher in the western portion of the state. A recent girlfriend of mine worked at the tech college here in the admin area but was in the union. EVERYONE I mentioned is directly impacted by this - is this reason enough for you?

 

I hear things that go on and no it is not all from Mark Belling. What I don't hear is what good does all this bargaining do for the state? Remember that it is supposed to for the state not the public employees themselves. Hear are some things that piss me off.

 

1. The stupid emeritus program - waste of money - bargained for

2. The pension was (and still is) a very sweet deal and I think it is no big deal to have these people put in 5.8%. They get it back at a guaranteed rate of return - do you get that ? No - that was bargained for

3. Insurance premiums go to a company owned by the union - waste - bargained for

4. My sister has recently been hired as a teacher - she says she was very lucky to get the job because two other women in the admin area considered going for the job - all 3 women were qualified - my sister was most qualified and in her opinion one of the others would be a horrible teacher. The two other would have got the job over her because of seniority. Stupid but those are the rules that were bargained for

5. If there are layoffs my brother in law does not have the power to eliminate who he thinks should be eliminated - seniority and other rules come into play - so let a good worker go and keep someone who has been here longer - stupid but hey that is what was bargained for.

6. If layoffs my sister may get laid off based on pure seniority - not based on merits or qualifications.

7. my recent girlfriend was on hiring committee and they hired a new person - there were other people better qualified but they hired the woman with higher seniority - the quote from one of the union heads was "as long as she meets the MINIMUM qualifications she gets the job" so I guess all we want is the minimum - that is awesome!!!!

8. My sister does not want to be in the union but is forced to pay union dues.

 

This is the crap that pisses me off and why I get a bit emotional. I just don't see much offered to see why these bargaining rights are good for the state???

 

Sorry for the rant.

[bushwacked]

there is this cool thing in Democracy where you can recall someone if you find out they are a lying scumbag..

 

"These are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland ... They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." -- Ronald Reagan (Labor Day address, 1980.)

 

 

 

Ronald Regan gets it, until he doesn't anymore, then FDR gets it.

[bpwallace49]

gbpfan, you are getting into a foaming at the mouth frenzy and getting personal, which really has nothing to do with the discussion. If ya cant put yer big boy pants on and talk like an adult, then maybe you should put down the keyboard for a hour or two.

 

By your reasoning, my brother doesnt get a guaranteed pension like the elected officials, and health care forever. Therefore THAT should be eliminated, cause my brother doesnt get the same perk. And since I PAY TAXES, I should now determine individual benefit packages for every state employee . . .

[Ursa Majoris]

I found this quote from Reagan - sorry I don't know how to do the fancy quote things so I will just copy and paste...

 

"...Let me make one thing plain. I respect the right of workers in the private sector to strike. Indeed, as president of my own union, I led the first strike ever called by that union. I guess I'm maybe the first one to ever hold this office who is a lifetime member of an AFL - CIO union. But we cannot compare labor-management relations in the private sector with government. Government cannot close down the assembly line. It has to provide without interruption the protective services which are government's reason for being..." - President Ronald Reagan

Doesn't exactly gel with the first quote, does it? I guess what's good for Poland isn't good for the US.

[gbpfan1231]

gbpfan, you are getting into a foaming at the mouth frenzy and getting personal, which really has nothing to do with the discussion. If ya cant put yer big boy pants on and talk like an adult, then maybe you should put down the keyboard for a hour or two.

 

By your reasoning, my brother doesnt get a guaranteed pension like the elected officials, and health care forever. Therefore THAT should be eliminated, cause my brother doesnt get the same perk. And since I PAY TAXES, I should now determine individual benefit packages for every state employee . . .

You are an idiot. and I will put the computer down. What you wrote above is asinine.

 

I was trying to show using real examples of how these bargaining rights have evolved and a lot of them make no sense and are wasteful.

 

Where did I say if I pay taxes then I can now determine individual benefit packages for every state worker? That was nowhere in what I wrote? Please show me that - I would love to see how you think that is at all what I meant?

 

Your condescending arrogant remarks do push my buttons and I guess I should probably just let it go. Maybe some day I could wake up and live my life according to your rules and then I will know I made it. Hail BP!!!

[tosberg34]

Doesn't exactly gel with the first quote, does it? I guess what's good for Poland isn't good for the US.

 

Yep.

[caddyman]

gbpfan, you are getting into a foaming at the mouth frenzy and getting personal, which really has nothing to do with the discussion. If ya cant put yer big boy pants on and talk like an adult, then maybe you should put down the keyboard for a hour or two.

 

By your reasoning, my brother doesnt get a guaranteed pension like the elected officials, and health care forever. Therefore THAT should be eliminated, cause my brother doesnt get the same perk. And since I PAY TAXES, I should now determine individual benefit packages for every state employee . . .

Do us all a favor junior. TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE!

[bpwallace49]

Do us all a favor junior. TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE!

 

Shhh . . . be oh so quiet little one . . .

[gbpfan1231]

gbpfan, you are getting into a foaming at the mouth frenzy and getting personal, which really has nothing to do with the discussion. If ya cant put yer big boy pants on and talk like an adult, then maybe you should put down the keyboard for a hour or two.

 

By your reasoning, my brother doesnt get a guaranteed pension like the elected officials, and health care forever. Therefore THAT should be eliminated, cause my brother doesnt get the same perk. And since I PAY TAXES, I should now determine individual benefit packages for every state employee . . .

Ok I put the computer down for a few hours but I really still don't understand your response. Let's try to be civil here... What about my post made you think that I was foaming at the mouth? Was it because I said I was pissed? I was showing personal examples of things that have been bargained for that to me seems wasteful and did not make sense to me and could not see how these things helped the state. What gave you the impression I was not talking like an adult?

 

Is there something against bringing real life examples into a discussion? If I wrote something in my examples that was not accurate or you thought was good for the state then please feel free to bring it up and if I am wrong I would be glad to admit it. I just seriously think that a lot of what I showed in those examples are big reasons why Wisconsin is in this mess and also why Walker is trying to eliminate the bargaining rights.

 

I don't see anyone offering up other ways to get WI out of this mess I also don't see anyone showing examples of why these employees NEED bargaining rights? All that was offered up so far in defense of the people against Walker's actions is you saying he should 1. Include ALL unions and 2. Walker take a pay cut. That is it.

 

I would really like to hear what others who oppose Walker think WI could/should do to get out of this mess. Also would love to hear why the public unions NEED these bargaining rights.

[bpwallace49]

Ok I put the computer down for a few hours but I really still don't understand your response. Let's try to be civil here... What about my post made you think that I was foaming at the mouth? Was it because I said I was pissed? I was showing personal examples of things that have been bargained for that to me seems wasteful and did not make sense to me and could not see how these things helped the state. What gave you the impression I was not talking like an adult?

 

Is there something against bringing real life examples into a discussion? If I wrote something in my examples that was not accurate or you thought was good for the state then please feel free to bring it up and if I am wrong I would be glad to admit it. I just seriously think that a lot of what I showed in those examples are big reasons why Wisconsin is in this mess and also why Walker is trying to eliminate the bargaining rights.

 

I don't see anyone offering up other ways to get WI out of this mess I also don't see anyone showing examples of why these employees NEED bargaining rights? All that was offered up so far in defense of the people against Walker's actions is you saying he should 1. Include ALL unions and 2. Walker take a pay cut. That is it.

 

I would really like to hear what others who oppose Walker think WI could/should do to get out of this mess. Also would love to hear why the public unions NEED these bargaining rights.

 

 

You were doing personal attacks. That is sinking to the beastial level of Zeke. if you want to start lobbing out insults, then you really dont have much to say. How "adult" of you. I havent really defended collective bargaining, but it is interesting how other unions can continue to have that right, and it is OK, but if teachers can collectively bargain, it is the end of the world. Just like how teachers make too much money, but none of the other unions or the politicans themselves are taking a pay cut or chainging their contributions. If it is about money . . . then have it be about money. Not just about one particular group. Also, why have the other riders that actually can lead to the state getting LESS MONEY for selling off state assets without a competitive bidding process or any oversight. That appears to be taking a LOWER BID which will COST the state money without a competitive bidding process!!

 

Walker would be better served if he stuck to the numbers and evenly applied his austerity measures. Then it is more about the actual money and less about the rhetoric. His stupid talking on that prank call did him no favors either. Public opinion is turning against him now . . . which wont help his cause.

[gbpfan1231]

You were doing personal attacks. That is sinking to the beastial level of Zeke. if you want to start lobbing out insults, then you really dont have much to say. How "adult" of you. I havent really defended collective bargaining, but it is interesting how other unions can continue to have that right, and it is OK, but if teachers can collectively bargain, it is the end of the world. Just like how teachers make too much money, but none of the other unions or the politicans themselves are taking a pay cut or chainging their contributions. If it is about money . . . then have it be about money. Not just about one particular group. Also, why have the other riders that actually can lead to the state getting LESS MONEY for selling off state assets without a competitive bidding process or any oversight. That appears to be taking a LOWER BID which will COST the state money without a competitive bidding process!!

 

Walker would be better served if he stuck to the numbers and evenly applied his austerity measures. Then it is more about the actual money and less about the rhetoric. His stupid talking on that prank call did him no favors either. Public opinion is turning against him now . . . which wont help his cause.

Seriously here... Where does this come from? I just reread every post of mine in this thread and I really did not see where I did personal attacks or lob insults. Please point it out.

 

You mention above about other unions continue to have that right? Are you talking public employee unions or private employee unions? If you are talking public then I beleiev we agree they have ALL been included - not sure if that was mentioned before??? If you are talking private then I would say that public and private unions are different and that it why this is happening.

 

I would also agree with you on bid thing but you don't know until it happens. People sell companies and it is not always to the highest bidder - a company may sell a company to another company for less money if it is in the best interest of the employees of the company for sale. I worked at a large company who bought a small mom and pop shop and bought it for less than a competitor was offering. The competitor would have basically shut the place down and rolled the Mfg into it's existing plants and eliminating the heads (and essentially the original business) but we kept the company as an ongoing entity - for this reason the owner sold for less. I don't have that much faith in politicians but I won't tear that part of the bill up unless it actually happens.

[SEC=UGA]

Also would love to hear why the public unions NEED these bargaining rights.

 

It is very simple as to why they need these bargaining rights. They need them in order to be able to undo the pay raise ceiling and the contibution levels for insurance and pension.

 

The Republicans are dong a HORRIBLE job of conveying their message in this instance. They are almost seemingly in hiding while the democrats (who are in hiding) are using the media to their fullest advantage.

 

Walker needs to call a press conference, stand up, outisde, in front of the capital, at a podium and tell his side of the story. He needs to fully explain 3 things; why the collective bargaining rights need to be curtailed, why he is only including teachers unions, and how this will fix the economy. He then needs to outline what will occur if this bill does not pass. He then needs to bring up the fact that he ran on this platform, other Republicans in the state ran on this platform and that the people of Wisconsin spoke at the polls by putting them in office, democracy has been heard. What we are seeing in Wisconsin are activists, many not even from the state, lined up to attempt to invalidate your vote, to invalidate the will of the people who showed up at the polls and voted us into office. Evidently, he doesn't have the grasp of the english language to be able to do any of this.

[gbpfan1231]

It is very simple as to why they need these bargaining rights. They need them in order to be able to undo the pay raise ceiling and the contibution levels for insurance and pension.

 

The Republicans are dong a HORRIBLE job of conveying their message in this instance. They are almost seemingly in hiding while the democrats (who are in hiding) are using the media to their fullest advantage.

 

Walker needs to call a press conference, stand up, outisde, in front of the capital, at a podium and tell his side of the story. He needs to fully explain 3 things; why the collective bargaining rights need to be curtailed, why he is only including teachers unions, and how this will fix the economy. He then needs to outline what will occur if this bill does not pass. He then needs to bring up the fact that he ran on this platform, other Republicans in the state ran on this platform and that the people of Wisconsin spoke at the polls by putting them in office, democracy has been heard. What we are seeing in Wisconsin are activists, many not even from the state, lined up to attempt to invalidate your vote, to invalidate the will of the people who showed up at the polls and voted us into office. Evidently, he doesn't have the grasp of the english language to be able to do any of this.

I think he is doing it. he is having weekly press conferences and they are not getting any play from the media. His press conferences pretty much do what you mention. I also heard yesterday in his press conference that he is trying to keep this out of the media (maybe a bad move on his part) and trying to trash the dems playing to the media. It sounds like the repubs have been meeting with a certain numbers of dems and they thought a deal was met to get them back but it fell through. The talk (from the repubs) is that the union heads are pulling the strings. It has started to get a bit heated yesterday with alker and his people naming names and Walker also said that as soon as thing does end he would gladly make public all the notes and e-mails that would prove that the repubs have been trying to negotiate.

 

I agree it needs to get out more of why he is doing this. You are exactly right about why he is trying to eliminate bargaining rights. Did you notice how quiet it is when you ask any of the union supporters to explain why the NEED them? Look at what bargaining has done for the state.

[SEC=UGA]

You just don't get it. The teachers said they would be willing to NEGOTIATE on the money issues. This is about Walker wanting to break the unions by unilaterally taking away their rights which was part of a process that has occurred for years. What part of this don't you understand? or are YOU going to keep your head in the sand?

 

(CNN) -- An e-mail exchange released by Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's office on Tuesday has revealed a series of potential Republican concessions to a three-week standoff over a budget bill that would restrict the collective bargaining rights of most public workers.

 

The e-mails show a discussion between Walker's deputy chief of staff, Eric Schutt, and Democratic state Sens. Tim Cullen and Bob Jauch in a correspondence that reveals offers and counter-offers between two sides who have remained at an impasse since mid-February.

 

Walker's initial proposal -- which passed the state's assembly on Friday and would exclude police and firefighters -- requires public workers to contribute more to their pension and health care plans, while prohibiting collection of union dues.

 

It would also restrict the collective bargaining power of public-sector unions to be limited to wages, and would be capped to the rate of inflation. Pay raises beyond the inflation index would require a voter referendum.

 

The original bill would also restrict contracts and would mandate annual votes for unions to keep their certification.

 

But in this latest e-mail exchange, dated Sunday, March 6, Walker appears willing to take steps that would curtail the proposal.

 

According to the e-mail, the changes would:

 

-- Allow unions to bargain for wages beyond inflation rates, without a mandatory voter referendum.

 

-- Permit collective bargaining on certain economic issues, including mandatory overtime, performance bonuses, hazardous duty pay, calendar and classroom size, as well as certification or license payment. Unions and public employers would be required to define the parameters of the negotiations in each case.

 

-- Allow public workers at the University of Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics Authority to keep their collective bargaining rights.

 

-- Permit public workers to collectively bargain workplace safety issues, while restricting workers from negotiating hours, overtime, sick or family leave, work breaks and vacation.

 

-- Limit collective bargaining agreements to one or two years.

 

-- Require unions to register less than one year after the bill is signed into law, and compel their registration every three years to stay active. The original measure would mandate annual certification.

 

The modifications do not address Walker prohibiting unions from collecting dues, often considered a sticking point in negotiations.

 

Later Tuesday evening, Democratic lawmakers offered an "alternative adjustment bill" in an open letter to Walker and Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, identifying three areas where the Wisconsin state budget is facing shortfalls: medical assistance, public defender, private bar and the Department of Corrections.

 

"Recent reports made it clear that Wisconsin is not 'broke,' as you claim," the statement said, referencing Walker's earlier speeches.

 

The Democratic proposal requires "the same level of contributions for pension and health care that Gov. Walker proposed" and would "maintain provisions to restructure Wisconsin's debt, freeing $165 million to be used to cover shortfalls in the current biennium," according to the statement.

 

The statement did not offer specifics in covering the shortfalls.

 

On Monday, Walker dismissed as "ridiculous" a letter from a Democratic state Senate leader, who suggested meeting near the Wisconsin-Illinois border to discuss the budget impasse.

 

Fourteen Democratic senators left Wisconsin for Illinois on February 17 to prevent a vote on a budget bill that ignited fierce opposition from labor leaders and their supporters.

 

Last week, the Senate's Republican majority approved a resolution charging their Democratic colleagues $100 fines daily until they return. On Friday, Walker's office issued notices to unions, warning them of possible layoffs in early April if the budget battle continues.

 

Wisconsin is confronted with a looming $137 million shortfall at the end of the fiscal year, June 30, and faces a $3.6 billion budget gap by 2013.

[borge007]

Golly-do you sense there might be some NEGOTIATING? Who'd have thunk it!

[SEC=UGA]

Golly-do you sense there might be some NEGOTIATING? Who'd have thunk it!

 

Sorry, the mantra I've been hearing in the news and here is that Walker is not willing to negotiate... Guess I don't read as well as most, considering where GA ranks in education.

[gbpfan1231]

Golly-do you sense there might be some NEGOTIATING? Who'd have thunk it!

Yes it does and the issue seems to be that the negotiating is between the repubs and only a few of the Dems. It seems like those people negotiating all thought they had it solved but the other Dems said no. Hopefully they can all come to their senses and iron this thing out.

 

Who really knows if Wiscosnin is broke or how broke they really are but it sure seems like the system is "broke". Even if Wisconsin is not broke financially or underfunded when the pensions come due I think that most of the waste and useless things that have been bargained for need to be eliminated. People double dipping on pensions and things like the emeritus program need to be eliminated.

 

One thing this whole fiasco did was get people to dig into what really has been happening and you then see the waste and it needs to be fixed.

[gbpfan1231]

Sorry, the mantra I've been hearing in the news and here is that Walker is not willing to negotiate... Guess I don't read as well as most, considering where GA ranks in education.

Where do you see or hear that? What Borge posted shows some good negotiating. What I have been hearing is that this has been happening but it has been happening behind closed doors. Maybe that was to protect the names of the Dems who may have been breaking ranks?? I for one am fine with keeping it out of the media - does not seem like the media ever helps the cause.

[bushwacked]

Sorry, the mantra I've been hearing in the news and here is that Walker is not willing to negotiate

 

Sound like Walker showed a willing to negotiate via emails over the weekend.

[tosberg34]

Where do you see or hear that? What Borge posted shows some good negotiating. What I have been hearing is that this has been happening but it has been happening behind closed doors. Maybe that was to protect the names of the Dems who may have been breaking ranks?? I for one am fine with keeping it out of the media - does not seem like the media ever helps the cause.

 

I think he shouldn't negotiate at all. So every time the minority party doesn't win the election or like anything they can just run away like some petulant child and get their way? Seems like a bad precedent. No way would I ever negotiate with a bunch of political terrorists like these 14 cowards.

 

Remember when we were told to sit in the back of the bus because "elections have consequences"? Did you see an R's running away and hiding like a bunch of fools? Now that they are not in power (in WI) compromise is suddenly en vogue again? Even after they were unwilling to compromise on anything when THEY were in power?

 

No way, man. I say let them rot in IL.